Starting the rebuild. A few front end questions

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Starting the rebuild. A few front end questions
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom F on Friday, June 15, 2018 - 10:57 am:

So finally began to work on my project and started a list of replacement parts I need.

When I disassembled the from axle, I noticed wear at the top of both areas that hold the spindle. It appears that someone had removed the top bushings of both spindles and it was basically metal on metal for probably a very long time.

I'm assuming this axle is a goner and I need a new one?


Side question: Can pedals be a little off or are mine bent and need straightening?

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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom F on Friday, June 15, 2018 - 11:00 am:

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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom F on Friday, June 15, 2018 - 11:01 am:

[url=https://ibb.co/j8jgLJ][img]https://thumb.ibb.co/j8jgLJ/IMG_6501.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/hEJ80J][img]https://thumb.ibb.co/hEJ80J/IMG_6503.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/bNgiZd][img]https://thumb.ibb.co/bNgiZd/IMG_6504.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/dgEsSy][img]https://thumb.ibb.co/dgEsSy/IMG_6512.jpg[/img][/url]


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom F on Friday, June 15, 2018 - 11:02 am:

I give up on the photos posting. Not sure why this forum doesn't allow HTML code for image posting.
The max size allowable for the uploads is also not helping.

Just click on the links in the first post


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Gumbinger, Kenosha, WI on Friday, June 15, 2018 - 11:14 am:

Tom, Your front axle is very worn & used front axles (good ones) are plentiful. I'd say replace it.

If you don't have it already, get the Model T Ford Club of America Front Axle repair manual as it has all the information you'll need.

Also, you'll find it very helpful to belong to a local T club for information, help and parts availability.

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Humble Northern Michigan on Friday, June 15, 2018 - 11:35 am:

I would not rule out that axle just yet. Dress up that surface flat with a file or spot facer. The new bushings should have enough extra thickness to make a good fit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Friday, June 15, 2018 - 11:43 am:

If the spindle bolt is not too loose from side to side and if the threads at the bottom of the axle are still good, you can use the axle. Even if it is a bit loose at the top, you can install a shim to keep the top end of the bolt centered. The bushings are in the spindles and the way they are made they need some machining down to fit between the top and bottom. You can file the top of the axle smooth and straight across and use new spindle bushings. There is a special tool which will ream both the inside and the flat surface of the bushing. You need to ream so that both top and bottom bushings are parallel to each other and the holes are in alignment and perpendicular to the flat ends.
You could also look for another axle and maybe find a better one. Other things to check are the straightness of the axle. All the holes for the spindle bolts and the spring hangers should also be parallel.
The book on Front Axle will give you complete stop by step instructions on how to do this work and I would highly recommend using it.
Your car looks like a combination of parts from various years. The engine and firewall look to be from 1923 through 1925 and the engine is earlier than the transmission. The transmission is 26-27. The two ears at the top of the transmission cover should be bolted to the back of the block if the engine is 26-27. There are no bolts shown in the picture and I would assume the engine is earlier and without the holes tapped for the bolts. If there are no threaded holes in the block, just leave out the bolts. Don't try to drill holes!
The brake pedal looks bent. If you are planning on placing Rocky Mountain brakes on the car, you can purchase a pedal which is made especially for the Rocky Mountain brakes and it will also operate the transmission brake. If you purchase the pedal, you won't need to straighten the existing pedal. You should also inspect the cam portion of the brake pedal. It should start moving the pedal shaft to the left as you press the pedal down. About one inch play is OK but if it goes almost all the way down, you need to either build up the metal in the cam area or purchase a better pedal.
The same is true for the other pedals. The reverse pedal shaft should move to the left as you push down the pedal. Usually this pedal is not worn very much because it is used less often than the others. The low pedal shaft should start moving to the right as you push the pedal down. If it doesn't move until it is almost to the floorboard, you need to purchase the notch and the cam to get it to operate correctly.
For the pedals and other transmission work I would recommend the book Transmission which gives you complete instructions on how to rebuild the transmission. The pedals can be straightened by using a long lever such as a pipe wrench with a long pipe attached. They quite often bet bent forward from years of pushing down hard while driving.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Gumbinger, Kenosha, WI on Friday, June 15, 2018 - 11:50 am:

Jeff, I respect what you said, but looking at the first picture that Tom posted above, it shows significant wear on the bottom of the upper axle surface where the spindle bolt goes through. This makes me think that the threads on the upper and lower holes of the axle where the spindle bolt goes through are probably worn significantly also. Good axles are out there and not very expensive, which could save Tom time and money. Further, he may not have access to the specialized tools needed to install new thread inserts and face the mating surfaces of the axle.

I agree, though, that if he can't find a good used front axle he may have to rebuild the one he has.

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Friday, June 15, 2018 - 03:19 pm:

Looks like a job for "Stevens Front Axle Tool". I have rebuilt front axles. Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom F on Sunday, June 24, 2018 - 09:48 pm:

Thanks for the info guys.
The top hole and bottom threads on either side are actually perfect with minimal wear and no play. The axle is also straight.
Iíd love to save the original so Iím curious to know if thereís a trick to surfacing the upper thrust surface to ensure itís perpendicular to the spindle bolt?

The Stevens tool wonít work for this nor is it needed for the actual spindle holes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom F on Sunday, June 24, 2018 - 11:36 pm:

I found an old post where someone posted a home made facer and pilot bar. SImilar to an original kr Wilson tool that was used to face the the axle surfaces and bushing surface. Does anyone make or have one of these tools?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Monday, June 25, 2018 - 04:24 am:

I filed my axle an checked it against the bushings repeatedly to make sure it was level. You could use machinist bluing or soot to mark where the bushing rubs on the axle and file to fit. May want to do this before you fit the bottom bush.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Monday, June 25, 2018 - 09:01 am:

To me the worn axle looks like I it could be filed down and still be used. I would at least give it a try and see what the fit would be with new bushings and go from there for a final fit up if it looks good.
And if it does fit up nicely it will last as long as you drive the car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould, Folsom, CA on Monday, June 25, 2018 - 10:19 am:

Personally, I am not a fan of filing the surface to remove irregularities. Darn hard to keep it level so that the bushing flange touches evenly with full contact. Should be able to find a facing cutter to fit inside the fork holes to keep the blades aligned. I like the idea of jigging it up on a mill or mill drill.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom F on Monday, June 25, 2018 - 02:14 pm:

Ok, I'll figure out a way to properly reface the upper surface. In the mean time, a few more questions:

What is the proper diameter of the hole in the wishbone that attaches to the spring perches? Mine were likely loose for quite some time and have been worn out a bit. I'm planning on welding some extra material to the worn areas and reaming out the proper size hole. I've attached a picture of the wear.



Also, can someone tell me what has happened to the springs on my car or if this is normal. It appears a spring has broken in the exact same spot on either side or someone has altered it. closeup is of one side but they are both exactly the same



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Monday, June 25, 2018 - 05:00 pm:

The wishbone does have some wear but I've seen them worse than this.
Might be a good idea to look at the perches to. When the wishbone gets loose on the perches they tend to wear a grove in the perch.
Tom if that were my car I would put jack stands under the frame near the front and remove the front axle assembly as one unit. Since it's a bare frame at this point it would be fairly simple to do.
You then can easily dissemble it along with the springs and replace all the bushings and worn pins, bolts and etc. the parts are not that expensive. In the long run you will glad you did and you will have a steady driving T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Monday, June 25, 2018 - 09:25 pm:

Tom, as John has noted, the perch is also likely to be flogged out a bit also and will need to be welded up and file back to size.

Your spring looks to be missing some leaves, and there should not be two the same length. Depending on the car, they had different numbers of leaves to take the varying loads.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.


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