OT; Late 40's Ford 6 cylinder engine

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: OT; Late 40's Ford 6 cylinder engine
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Patterson. Australia. on Tuesday, June 19, 2018 - 08:37 pm:

I wonder if anyone who frequents these pages would have the info I'm seeking.
In 1951 Ford UK released the then new Zephyr 6 and Consul 4 to take the place of the Ford Pilot. Although it was much smaller, anyone who takes a look at the Zephyr, can see many styling similarities with the, then new, '49 Ford.

The OHV 6 cylinder engine they used was developed and entirely built in Dagenham, near London, BUT, I think I remember reading that the engine was a USA design that was on the books in Dearborn just waiting for a project.
Anybody got any advice on how I go about proving this? Where do I start looking??
Thanks & Cheers,
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Miller, mostly in Dearborn on Tuesday, June 19, 2018 - 09:11 pm:

Rob,

Ford first offered a six in the US cars in 1941. The only tip off is that the hood strip did not say V8 like the other cars. This engine was a popular substitute for the V8 flathead because it was touted as having similar horsepower and torque and was had less moving parts. It was used in the wartime production for army cars and continued on post-war. This may be the basis for your Dagenham engine in a reduced size.

I am sorry to say my Dagenham-Dunton colleague and friend has since passed on and I doubt the younger guys would know.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Patterson. Australia. on Tuesday, June 19, 2018 - 11:08 pm:

Hi Tom,
Thanks for answering.
I've just had a look at a couple of the engines you mention and its a completely different engine. The one I'm inquiring about is a pushrod operated overhead valve engine.
Thanks again,
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Matthiesen on Wednesday, June 20, 2018 - 01:20 am:

Rob, In the USA made cars and light trucks Ford had a flat head 6 engine option to go along with the flat head V8 from 1941 to 1951. In 1952 Ford came out with a OHV push rod 6 but still used the flat head V8 in 1952 and 1953. As far as I know the 1952 OHV 6 was a Ford USA design.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Wednesday, June 20, 2018 - 01:54 am:

Rob.
If true or not I can't tell you, but an article written back in 2006 and published on Hemmings web site called, "Six in a Row" states so.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By wayne tomlins on Wednesday, June 20, 2018 - 02:39 am:

This got me pouring thru a few books.
Post War, Ford Dagenham carried on with their Anglia, Prefect & the old V8 design [ all initially designed in US] now branded Pilot. The small 4 cylinder Prefect & Anglia were their best sellers but the Pilot was to capture sales in Australia, New Zealand & Sth Africa etc [where the Canadian V8s were very popular] even though it [Pilot] was well outdated.
The new designs from 1951 were the Consul 4 & Zephyr 6, held up by supply & finance restrictions in post War Britain. Design aid/expertise for these new models occurred from Ford Detroit [ p 364; American Business Abroad- Ford on 6 Continents] which would have been engine/chassis design assistance but Ford Britain along with the other Ford companies was quite independent as to what it ultimately produced. Ford Britain was at the spearhead of worldwide export drives of new smaller cars which were to take over from the larger V8 models from Nth America in the world markets.Ford Detroit recognised Dagenham as crucial to Ford world sales with the new post War models .
Other books with some info are 'Ford in the Thirties" [ Woudenberg] & History of Ford in Australia [ Darwin] which still has the best info on Australia. Cheers ; Wayne in NZ.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Patterson. Australia. on Wednesday, June 20, 2018 - 03:24 am:

Gentlemen,
Thank you for your replies.
Frank,
You're a gent too.....Thats exactly what I was hoping to see.
Cheers,
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gene french on Wednesday, June 20, 2018 - 08:00 pm:

Rob:
I have a 1953 Ford F500 truck with the 215cube inch 6 cylinder engine don't know if this is the design that was used in Britain or not the truck is a good field truck but very slow on the road and underpowered in our hills this engine is labeled "Thrift Master " has most of the old decals and paint still inplace only 48,000 miles , probably all in low gear always an optimist...gene french


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Wednesday, June 20, 2018 - 08:21 pm:

The pommie zeph was a small 6 starting at 2.3litre and later to 2.6
One thing that was a bit unique to them was the exhaust manifold in being a pipe clamped to the head.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Wednesday, June 20, 2018 - 09:01 pm:

I found a few photo's to give a better view of the exhaust, this set up was declared the worst exhaust design in the history of the internal combustion engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Patterson. Australia. on Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 07:11 am:

Yes Frank,
My '55 (pic down below)still has the Hockey Stick Manifold. A very inefficient design should you be looking for performance gains from the engine, but OK for everything else.
A big problem it had, was that ham fisted, back yard, mechanics usually over tightened the mounting clamps and distorted it, causing leaks. Mine was leaking when I first got the car (15 years ago) but with some gentle massaging its fine now. A lot of Zephyr owners have ditched the hockey stick for a set of extractors, which require a D shaped adapter at each port. Apart from this its a decent cylinder head that can be developed quite well and in my opinion is attached to a superior engine to the Holden Grey Motor, which has reached cult status in Australia.
Thanks for posting the pics.
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Patterson. Australia. on Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 07:22 am:

The car in the photo above is a '55 Mk1 FORD Zephyr 6, built in England but assembled in Geelong Australia.
Mk2's were a more attractive car but still had the awful exhaust manifold. But....that didn't mean they couldn't be tweaked a little to perform. Should anyone like to see a 1961 Mk2 FORD Zephyr doing its thing in the Targa Tasmania, then have a look at this, but make sure you turn up the volume.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdTXsMvcIs0
This is the engine I was inquiring about in my first post. As Frank mentioned it was initially a 2.26 liter engine, that became a 2.6 in the Mk2's and Mk3's.....and it looks like it was a Dearborn design. My interest comes from owning the car above and my first car, back in '68, being the same.
Cheers,
Rob

(Message edited by rob patterson on June 21, 2018)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Patterson. Australia. on Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 07:35 am:

Try this link, it should work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdTXsMvcIs0
Sorry about that,
Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 08:01 am:

Nice Zephyr Rob, few and far between to find today.
Made a few hockey sticks out of steam pipe some 45 years ago when I didn't mind getting my hands dirty.
One way to tickle a GMH grey was to bore and fit zeph pistons, drag raced an FJ back when I first started work. Zeph pistons, 44m webers, no water pump or radiator and block full of casting sand.
Still running some 47 years later.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Leo van Stirum, NL on Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 10:02 am:

The (4cyl) engine of the Ford designed M151 Mutt shows remarkable similarities to the Zephyr 6 ! weird manifold construction...




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 06:26 pm:

Well there you go! I didn't know of the Mutt.
The 4 cyl came out in the pommie cars as well, same body configuration as the zephyr, the Consul.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roar Sand on Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 09:41 pm:

Dearborn also did the "Cardinal" project, a small front wheel drive car with a V-4 engine as a VW competitor, but decided against it for the US market. They shipped it to Germany, and it became the 1962 Ford Taunus 12M.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Codman on Saturday, June 23, 2018 - 09:58 am:

The American Ford six was a flathead until the Overhead engine was adopted in 1952. A completely different engine then the UK 6.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Codman on Saturday, June 23, 2018 - 10:03 am:

To Rob Patterson - Ham fisted "mechanics" are not unique to Australia; Chrysler had so many problems with people overtightening the exhaust manifolds on their slant six - which would inevitably lead to a cracked manifold, that they finally cast the torque onto the manifolds - 10 ft/lbs.


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