Need help determining value Ė 1922 Centerdoor

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Need help determining value Ė 1922 Centerdoor
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Rhoads on Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 12:26 pm:

A good friend is selling his collection due to health issues, and thanks to help from this forum, I was recently able to assist in the sale of his 1925 TT.

Once again, I turn to the wealth of expertise among this crowd to determine a fair market value for another car, a 1922 Centerdoor. My friend acquired the car in 2014 and drove it some, but it has mostly sat in the years since. The roof seems to be in good shape, but a partially open window has caused water damage to the front passenger seat. I donít know if it could be cleaned up enough to be usable, or would need to be reupholstered. The rest of the interior, including the headliner, is fairly nice. Overall, the car has a nice patina.

Iíd like to see the car sell at a price thatís fair to both the buyer and the seller. Please take a look at the photos; Iíll eagerly await your guidance.

Thanks, as always, for your time.


1922 Centerdoor

1922 Centerdoor

1922 Centerdoor

1922 Centerdoor

1922 Centerdoor

1922 Centerdoor

1922 Centerdoor

1922 Centerdoor

1922 Centerdoor

1922 Centerdoor


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matt the Headlight Lens Guy n California on Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 01:45 pm:

Wow! That is. Beautiful. Is that left outside right now?

I would say itís priceless. People may get upset I would say most of all Model Tís are between five and $10,000 and less I get into the earlier years. Recently rebuilt engine and drivetrain obviously can I have some value. For me something thatís mostly original like I believe this one is more desirable. But I donít know youíll get a price for it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith McGowan on Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 01:53 pm:

Just from looking at the pictures I see a car with a quite straight body, relatively mediocre paint and an interior that needs to be replaced. The front side panel on the drivers side is badly stained, on the passenger side it is starting to fall off. The kick panel on the drivers side is rotted out, The front passenger seat is beyond repair, the drivers seat and the rear seat are stained and have holes. The headliner is starting to come loose from the top bows and is holed. It also looks as if one sidelight font is missing, and the glass in the passenger door is cracked.
I would think that $6000 would be a very generous estimate, assuming that everything mechanically is good. This is just my opinion and is worth what you paid for it. I would not pay $ 4000, myself.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith McGowan on Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 01:54 pm:

There is also the question of the wood condition. There is a lot of wood in a centerdoor and most of it is curved.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Rhoads on Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 02:01 pm:

Keith -- I'm glad you mentioned the wood. I checked the fit of the doors, and all seemed good there -- no sag. In addition, the roof seems solidly attached; no evidence of anything coming loose due to wood rot.

Matt -- Yes, unfortunately, it's sitting outside. It currently has a tarp over it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george house . . .caldwell county, TX on Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 02:10 pm:

And the glass? Plate or Safety? Thatíll be expensive. You didnít say but is the drive train original or any engine/tranny/differential work been done? I have a Ď19 centerdoor that I restored so I know centerdoors but I agree with all the numbers Keith mentioned.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Rhoads on Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 02:38 pm:

I'm not 100% sure about the glass (plate or safety). One window is cracked, however. No mechanical work has been done on the car since my friend bought it in 2014, but he car was running and operational at that time. There's no way of knowing what might have been done to it mechanically in the prior 92 years.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Hughes, Raymond, NE on Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 03:13 pm:

Jeff, where is the car located? I see your profile is Kentucky, and the rear license plate is Kentucky, but the front plate is North Dakota.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Rhoads on Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 03:53 pm:

The car is located in central Kentucky.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 04:41 pm:

Restored about $20,000. I don't see any goodies like Ruckstell rear end, after market brakes, etc. It is also not a brass T. Mechanicals are unknown and it has been stored outdoors. Deduct the cost of upholstery, glass, getting it running, paint, etc. and the asking price should be about $8,000. Start higher, you can always go lower. Whoever buys it will put a lot of hours into it which are not counted in the price.

If you look at the crack in the glass, if it goes all the way from through it is probably plate glass. If one side is cracked and the other not it is safety glass. If it is safety glass you can sometimes see water ingress into the crack and into the plastic which is in the center.

Neil


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Codman on Friday, June 22, 2018 - 01:16 pm:

I pretty much agree with Keith. The interior is junk, you really can't save any of it and have anything decent looking when you are done. If it's stored outside, I'd be worried about the top and the wood under it as well. I would also want to hear/see it run and drive. From bitter experience I would want to drive it for at least 20 to 30 minutes - a new radiator will eat up $800 right there. I like centerdoors, but not $20,000 Worth. I'd start at about $16 -$17 thousand and then calculate what it would cost to get it there. Deduct that cost from the restored value, and that's what it's worth


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George John Drobnock on Friday, June 22, 2018 - 01:24 pm:

Well if it is from an early owner, now is the time to write down the history for a future owner. At some point a new member of the forum will probably own the car and ask -"Can you tell me the history of my car?"

Make copies of the title and any paper work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Davis. Tomball Texas on Friday, June 22, 2018 - 07:38 pm:

Jeff. 1927 4dr E-bay current bid $4550.00 similar car, running condition.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1924-Ford-Model-T/332651639057?hash=item4d73953111:g:it wAAOSw7~Va76Iz


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham, Blackfoot, Idaho on Friday, June 22, 2018 - 07:49 pm:

When deducting the cost of restoration against the "high dollar mark" it should be at 50 cents on the dollar or less . . . I don't believe the 90 point restoration exists that didn't cost over twice the presumed "market value" of the car in that state.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Friday, June 22, 2018 - 07:51 pm:

In my mind the condition of the wood would play a big part in determining the price. You can get an idea from looking under the car and see if the wooden sills ( the main part of the wooden body structure) condition can be seen.

I have a feeling it has the original wood and its in fairly good condition. MHO!

If the body wood condition is fairly good or better than a price between 8-10,000 would be about right. And that's if the engine, rear end and transmission runs and drives pretty well. Deduct 800.00 for a radiator if it needs one.

MHO of course.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry & Sharon Miller, Westminster, CO on Saturday, June 23, 2018 - 08:47 am:

I have debated with myself about posting or not.

I believe the prices being discussed are higher than reality.

We purchased a 1920 center door, billed as a 1917. Did not run or drive, 1923 engine turned over by hand, had starter and generator, 4 new rims and tires, body good, wood - ROTTEN, interior 10%, came with 2 extra doors, extra drivers seat, and some other parts. Price: $1500.

Comparing this '22 to our '20, I would say $2500 to $4000 would be reasonable.

Stored OUTSIDE should be a BIG red flag. Seeing the water damage to the inside, should be some indication of the potential damage to the wood. I agree, this is no guarantee but could be a good indicator.

Today, I see so many sellers thinking they have a gold mine when they have a nice item worth less than half what the seller thinks. While I sure understand getting a fair price, for both seller and buyer, how many people would spend $8000 when it is evident the car will need $6000 minimum in restoration, making a $12000 car cost $14000 or more. When there was a great interest in the preservation and restoration of our old cars/trucks, I could see the $8000 price but that interest is dying along with us. We've had only a handful of new, young members, on this forum, while we've had more old members take that last T ride to visit Henry. I realize, if I don't complete the restoration of my vehicles, no one else will.

I wish everyone Good Luck,
Terry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Davis. Tomball Texas on Monday, June 25, 2018 - 08:34 pm:

FYI. 1927 model T 4dr running condition acceptable interior just closed on E-Bay for about $5100. don't know if it sold or not.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Duquette Grand Forks, ND on Monday, June 25, 2018 - 10:46 pm:

Center doors are special, don't see them very often. The body looks nice; interior is gone but if the wood is ok, the engine and trans are correct and not stuck I could see paying $7000-8000. MHO.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C west central, MN on Monday, June 25, 2018 - 11:15 pm:

I was going to lip off and say I'd offer 4500 bucks IF my wife would let me "buy" a Center Door instead of resurrecting the tin pile, late one I already have. But I won't. :-)
Some black molds are naughty/dangerous.
Gorgeous car! In my mind, I'd treat it with chlorine dioxide to kill the mold (that may bleach some color out of the fabric), dry it all out and nail it back together and go run it.
IF I'd fit in the darn thing!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry & Sharon Miller, Westminster, CO on Tuesday, June 26, 2018 - 07:28 am:

In the Mile High chapter of the MTFCA Colorado clubs, there are 5 Center doors and I know of a 6th for sale here in Denver. These are just what I know about. I'm sure there are more that I don't know about.

As for being rare, there appear to be quite a few around. Not as many as Tourings but equal to or more than Roadster Pickups, at least around Colorado.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Manuel, Lafayette, La. on Tuesday, June 26, 2018 - 08:51 am:

$4-6,000 as it sits. I recently bought a '31 A Victoria in very similar condition (stored outside, ruined moldy interior) but in drive away condition for 5 and had I proceeded to restore it would have been way upside down and that was a car actually worth 20-25 reasonably well done. I think Duey has the right idea--if it could be bought for 4-5, clean it up, get it running and enjoy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Putnam, Bluffton, Ohio on Tuesday, June 26, 2018 - 09:21 am:

You have to look at this as if you were buying a car body and what is that worth. It has to be gutted, the upholstery is shot and has to go. "Stored outside under a tarp"says volumes about its condition, the wood frame of the body may not be in good condition. The drive train is original with all of its original wear and needs entirely rebuilt to be safe in use. This car is a survivor and will need much to be put in usable condition. It is a $4000 parts source. IMO, yours may vary.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Codman on Tuesday, June 26, 2018 - 10:06 am:

Sometimes "stored outside under a tarp" is worse then "stored outside". If the car is covered with a waterproof tarp that doesn't breathe, especially on grass, it's living in a sauna. Not good - especially for a car with a wood framed body.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Rhoads on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 08:12 am:

Thanks, everyone, for your input! I spoke with the owner's wife last night, and have directed her to this posting. Once she and her family settle on an asking price, I'll post on the classifieds.

In the meantime, I might "bump" this thread to the top from time to time to help her find it easily when consulting with the family.

Thanks again for the wealth of expertise offered here.

Jeff


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