Help with brake lever and cam position

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Help with brake lever and cam position
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Annaian - Moultonborough NH on Friday, June 22, 2018 - 10:16 pm:

Got my 27 T out of the barn finally and am now able to roll it and test the relined brakes.

Currently, when roll it forwards, with the brake lever all the way forwards, the engine is in gear and I can hear the compression and the fan spins.

When the lever is verticle, the car is pretty much in free neutral. Slight brake drag, which is probably because new linings or I didn't adjust the brakes correctly. The bolt is about 1/3rd of the way into the cam at this point. Anything before it has been in gear still.

With the lever a little back from verticle, and the bolt about 1/2 into the cam, the engine is still in neutral and the brakes are fully applied.

Does this sound about correct? Haven't seen any info on how exactly these positions are. Engine will be run within about two weeks once I get some more work done, then I can test it better.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, June 23, 2018 - 03:13 am:

Sounds about correct to me.
Many people set the brakes with the handle too far back before the brake takes hold. There are two serious problems with doing that. One, only a small amount of wear is needed for the handle to be too far back and fail to adequately operate the brake. I see model Ts parked all too often with the brake handle clear back against the seat riser with the brake not quite working. Two, While it was one thing to consider the hand brake as a "parking" brake only a hundred years ago? Today (with modern traffic), one must consider it to be an "emergency" brake as well. Whether outside band brakes are used, '26/'27 large drum lined inside brakes, or earlier small drum inside lined brakes (which if properly set up and maintained are adequate) are used? One should be ready and able to use the hand brake in an emergency. Using that brake requires proper adjustment, and proper adjustment requires some leverage for your arm. If the brake handle is adjusted too far back, you lose arm leverage.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Annaian - Moultonborough NH on Saturday, June 23, 2018 - 09:01 am:

Just adjusted the clutch to that diagram floating around. Everything seems to be in a better position now.

When I jack up the rear wheels, in high the wheels move forward, like they should, but in neutral, they also move forward. It is easy to crank, while on jack stands. When lowered, it's hard to crank in neutral.

Is this normal? Exactly how many "pounds" of resistance am I supposed to feel when cranking in neutral?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Arthur Babitz on Saturday, June 23, 2018 - 12:06 pm:

John, while you have the rear jacked up make sure the brakes are balanced. Find the point where they just start to contact and make sure it's the same for both side. Just did this for my '27.

I'm waiting to see an answer on your "cranking resistance" question-- I have the same question, not sure what is normal. Hard to imagine people crank starting with as much resistance as I feel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, June 23, 2018 - 12:27 pm:

There is no number for "pounds" when hand cranking. It is the nature of the multi disk clutch, even when in neutral, that there is some drag and the wheel turns when jacked up. :-) What oil are you using? When the lever is in the upright position, neutral, are the clutch fingers loose or still riding on the collar? They should be loose.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Annaian - Moultonborough NH on Saturday, June 23, 2018 - 01:16 pm:

Mark, it's a mix of two oils. Did this with what was laying around for a quick start to see if the engine started. Should probably change it...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, June 23, 2018 - 03:21 pm:

Run the car a bit on your "mix of two oils" to help flush the inside of the engine. (And please all, no ridiculous ongoing drifts into which oils are better here?) Some different oils will drag the clutch more when cold than others will. And if the engine has been sitting (in a car or out) for a few years, dried oil will make it drag for awhile (the reason I say to let it flush it out for a bit).
I have never seen any measurable figure for how hard a hand crank should turn for either hot or cold, but it sounds like you may be pulling a bit hard. If the engine has been setting for very long? It may loosen up fairly quickly.
Oil bath multiple disc clutches always have some tendency to drag. If the rear wheels are off the ground and the brake not set? It should spin at least one rear wheel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Annaian - Moultonborough NH on Saturday, June 23, 2018 - 04:23 pm:

Wayn e, going to say sitting engine is the culprit then. Was ran once for a few minutes this Feb and that's it, been sitting for years so I'd say it has to be broken in.


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