No "Neutral" - can't roll car.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: No "Neutral" - can't roll car.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Spies on Tuesday, June 26, 2018 - 02:16 pm:

I am new to the board and new to model T. I am a race car crew chief whose boss has decided i was more qualified than anyone else to repair his 27 model T.He also has a 26, but 27 is first priority right now.

Engine runs great! Converted to 12v system and built a new wire harness.

The problem is bang and pop noises, likely from the rear end. I can not push the car without the rear tires grabbing every few inches. Roll the car back an inch or 2, and it rolls forward a a little further and locks up again. Clutch pedal is out, park brake in center position.

So.....is it driver error or driveline problems?

Thanks
Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Tuesday, June 26, 2018 - 02:27 pm:

Sounds like something came apart in rear axle. Probably not driver error, more like neglect of warning signs. Best to pull rear axle down and see what is in there in pieces. Any questions can be answered here.
By the way, welcome to forum!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Doleshal on Tuesday, June 26, 2018 - 03:36 pm:

26 & 27 Tís are also prone to failure of the driven gear shaft in the transmission. It can present itself as a symptom similar to what you describe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Spies on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 06:30 pm:

Looks like it will be a week or 2 before I can get to the rear end. Thanks for the replies!

Laris Racing 1927 Model T


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 08:18 pm:

Scott,
Your problem is very clear.
The T dosenít like being near that young iron.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 08:53 pm:

Before you take anything apart, make adjustments according to the picture posted. Note the T does not have a completely "free" neutral, but you should be able to turn the crank when in neutral without pulling the car and when you push the car the engine should not turn over. It will be a bit hard to push for one person alone, but it will roll without the engine turning.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Spies on Thursday, June 28, 2018 - 09:48 am:

Thank you for the diagram, I will indeed make the adjustments.

In this case, the car definitely has a bind when it is rolled, but the engine is not turning, so I kinda made the assumption I had it as close to "neutral" as possible.

Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew Weaver - Arthurdale, WV on Thursday, June 28, 2018 - 11:50 am:

I might recommend jacking the rear wheels up and then seeing if you can turn the engine over with the crank or have someone else do it while you listen for noises from the rear or the trans. if you are pushing it and it's not in neutral the motor should be turning over. - Matt


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew Weaver - Arthurdale, WV on Thursday, June 28, 2018 - 11:53 am:

Another question to help folks diagnose the issue. Does it have the standard rear or a Ruckstell 2 speed? Any auxiliary trans in the equation?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem S.E. Michigan on Friday, June 29, 2018 - 10:04 am:

Scott,

"The problem is bang and pop noises, likely from the rear end."

Sounds like you have old pot metal differential thrust washers that have failed. Very common.

The "no neutral" thing might be a separate issue. I would address what is probably a rear end issue first.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Codman on Friday, June 29, 2018 - 10:33 am:

Do not jack it up under the "Pumpkin". It is best to lift the rear with two jacks about as far out on the axle housings as is possible.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Spies on Friday, June 29, 2018 - 05:31 pm:

Matt - Standard Rear end and Trans...as far as I know.

The car does seem to have a neutral, as I can start it and run the motor without the wheels turning (w/brake applied) when on jack stands. Motor starts and runs fine, sounds good.

In gear with wheels turning, some growling noises, but not sure what is a "normal" drivetrain noise in this vehicle.

John - Thanks for the heads up (of course a jack under the pumpkin is how I put it on the stands weeks ago when I started on the wire harness).

Originally, the "pop" noise was when I tried backing the car up steep ramps to the "museum room" last year. Thought I had found the cause when doing the wire harness and found both transmission mount bolts missing.

Have not tried to drive it since, only started and ran on stands. Encountered the "lockup" issues when trying to push the car down the ramp to the "shop'.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Friday, June 29, 2018 - 05:47 pm:

Time to open rear axle. Should not be growling or poping. May as well join the club of rear axle rebuilders.


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