Rare does not make high value

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Rare does not make high value
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darel J. Leipold on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 01:04 pm:

Just because it is rare to the seller does not make the item rare or valuable. It maybe rare to see one for sale because no one wants one. It may be rare because it was poorly made or did not function well for the purpose for which it was made. Ever so often I will see something advertised on eBay or our forum classified as being "RARE" for which I have several in good condition.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 01:17 pm:

And what is so rare as a day in June?
Then, if ever, come perfect days...


Days in June are rare because there are only thirty of them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks NY on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 01:29 pm:

(of a thing) not found in large numbers and consequently of interest or value.
"the jellyfish tree, one of the rarest plants on earth"
synonyms: unusual ∑ uncommon ∑ unfamiliar ∑ out of the ordinary ∑ atypical


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 01:38 pm:

Does that mean I am rare ? There is only 1 of me and I am out of the ordinary :-).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham, Blackfoot, Idaho on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 02:00 pm:

Mack, I believe you're actually half-baked . . . like me !

As far as value in "old cars", models and makes that were popular and considered desirable when they were new are generally popular and desirable (hence more valuable) as "antiques". Rarity may or may not be a factor. <e.g.> A '32 Ford coupe vs. a '32 International ton truck or a '57 Chebby "Nomad" vs. a '57 DeSoto station wagon . . .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Troy Todd on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 02:11 pm:

I wish rare meant valuable. I'd sell a couple of cars and retire.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darel J. Leipold on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 02:12 pm:

Have you seen a 1957 DeSota Station wagon? They often were two toned in pastel colors. NEAT!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darel J. Leipold on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 02:13 pm:

DeSoto that is. The 1957 DeSota is very rare.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 02:28 pm:

That would probably add to the value of the DeSota....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 02:41 pm:

I prefer medium to medium rare myself...........


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James G Fisher III Peachtree City, GA on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 02:48 pm:

Maybe the seller meant rarified

adjective
adjective: rarified
1.(of air, especially that at high altitudes) of lower pressure than usual; thin.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eckensviller - Thunder Bay, ON on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 03:47 pm:

I like when you go down to the local car show and some guy is showing off his numbers matching all-original Brown '68 Camaro with a vinyl roof, blue interior, bench seat, column shifted three speed and a straight six and it's priceless because "it's the only one they ever made like this." Gee, I wonder why that could be?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Andreasen on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 03:53 pm:

I, for one, have a real problem with the way sellers on Ebay list their items. It seems everything is "rare", "hard to find", etc. etc......using every adjective they can think of in order to effect a sale. Unfortunately, there are folks out there who buy into this line of malarkey, and that just prompts the NEXT seller to jack up his prices.

I actually contacted one seller and informed him that his "rare and unusual" item ( a model A carb) was of interest to me.........because I had a five gallon bucket full of them. Would he care to buy them from me at his listed price?

No reply for some reason...................


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George John Drobnock on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 03:54 pm:

For stuff to be rare there needs to be an expert in the room, and the expert determines if it is rare. If the expert states that the stuff is RARE...then is is RARE.

One expert in the rooms states: "A car can be rare but not collectible, while another can be collectible but not necessarily rare. And rare is of course a relative term. Ferrari collectors are going to have a different concept of what is rare than a Corvette fan, and there are, of course, varying degrees of rarity in the big, wide world of Corvettes."

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2018/05/09/does-rarity-translat e-to-value


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 03:56 pm:

At a local flea market a few years ago I came across a Ford coil in fairly good condition. According to the seller it was quite rare and he had turned down $50.00 for it last week. Wonder how he made out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 04:14 pm:

Yugos are rare now because most all went to the grinder. Want one?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 04:15 pm:

Value is in the eyes of the beholder! Some people have been looking for a certain make or model for years, so they call it rare. If it is in good condition or even in restorable condition they will buy it. In that case, the seller might be able to get whatever price he asks.

The same car would not be wanted by most other people and they would not pay anything for it unless they knew that they could sell for a profit.

Something that many people want but is rare to find for sale will bring the highest price.

These days many people are looking for something they remember when they were children or possibly something their parents were very fond of. These are usually cars from the 1950's through the 1970's. Model T's are from grandparents or great grandparents day, so are not as popular today as they were a few years ago.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garland E Pobletts on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 04:36 pm:

If a restored car is RARE then can it still be WELL DONE?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter McIntyre on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 05:00 pm:

Do you have a steak in it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jem Bowkett, Spalding United Kingdom on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 05:22 pm:

If you have the only Dirsley-Chiffit spare cylinder head in the world and I have the only Dirsley-Chiffit car left, do I buy for $1 because I'm your only customer or do you charge $10000 because it's so rare?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker, Ramona, CA on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 06:19 pm:

Garland - that was GOOD


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 06:22 pm:

It could just be what a person knows the most about as to how he ciphers rare.
As a example, John Deere made a couple electric riding mowers in 1973-4.
A Model 90 which they made 3000 of, and then a model 95 which they made 1500 of.
I have a operating unrestored 90 and a parts 95.
As a collector of odd riding mowers and tractors I consider them rare because of 45 years of time passing and scraping due to total rust out. Value? Eh, marginal at best.
My 2 International Cadet Spirit of '76 riders are scarce, as only 5000 were made.
Rare, eh,you can find them in MUCH better shape than either of mine.

But if you told me a Desoto wagon was rare,I would not be able to argue as I have little to no knowledge of them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker, Ramona, CA on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 06:23 pm:

Jem -it depends on if YOU. NEED it
With a one on one like that, it all depends on the approach, could be a gift if approached correctly. Burst in with money, and it will cost you big bucks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dale w on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 07:18 pm:

"rarity" can depend solely on location.


I live in an area of Michigan where farmers typically cultivated crops with narrow fronted "row crop" tractors.
An hour away, in Ontario this method wasnt used as much and row crop tractors are "rare", but on the other hand they do have a large assortment of standard, or "wide tread" tractors which are considered "rare" here!

I can load up my trailer with row crop John Deeres and Farmalls here, take them across the border and sell these "rarities" for a good mark up to collectors eager to get such a (locally) unusual model. Then I will buy some common Canadian wide-fronted tractors there and again make a decent profit here in Michigan selling "rare" Canadian tractors that arent commonly seen on this side of the border.

It ALMOST makes the border-crossing paperwork and inspections worth the hassle!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kenneth W DeLong on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 08:09 pm:

What little i know of standard tractors is they almost never have fast hitch or 3 point.Non adjustable front axles.Hard to find in actual farm use in modern farming.Bud in Wheeler,Mi.PS,Same way for a narrow front.Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tim moore, "Island City" MI on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 08:40 pm:

A friend told me long ago that there is only one thing that is rare...do you want to own the Mona Lisa? the Hope diamond? A dual cam Frontenac? All can be yours with what is rare, enough money. There is nothing rare that enough $$$ can't buy so logically the only thing rare is $$$ and enough of them.

Finding anything is not the problem, buying it can be and that makes it rare.

Tim Moore


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Fischer - Arroyo Grande, CA on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 09:58 pm:

Many years ago, when phone calls were still very expensive, I send out a bunch of letters in search of a particular type airplane motor from 1929. Only about 500 were ever made.

I received a penny post card back from one fellow to whom I had written. The message was simple: "Good luck. J6-5 motors are harder to find than money !"

So, "harder to find than money" might be an apt definition of rarity.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith McGowan on Wednesday, June 27, 2018 - 11:17 pm:

I had a RARE car. It was a 1939 Delage D6-75, drophead de ville, custom bodied by Coachcraft of London. It was a one of a kind. However, it was not extremely valuable.

Delage


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Thursday, June 28, 2018 - 12:15 pm:

Sticking with old cars; Roadsters were the cheapest cars when they were new, but in today's world they usually are considered more valuable than closed carts.
In Model A production, one of the most expensive models today is the Convertible Sedan (A400), however in total production numbers, they made far fewer '29 Blindback sedans. Today, the A400 is considered far more valuable (it also costs a lot more to restore too--all that chrome/nickle plating of top pieces).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Schreiber- Santa Isabel Ecuador on Thursday, June 28, 2018 - 02:47 pm:

I have these very rare pair of sneakers :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis R on Thursday, June 28, 2018 - 03:16 pm:

A complete rare car is great, but parts of a rare car is something I learned to avoid the hard way. Trying to find that one in a million person who has that car needing that part is nearly impossible. One year I sold 4 truckloads of Model A parts at the Big 3 swap meet in San Diego. Didn't sell a single Maxwell part, even at "Don't want to haul it home" prices. One guy even walked away when I told him he could have it all for free and I would even help him load his truck. Decided to stick to Model A's, T's and 53-56 F100's from then on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Troy Todd on Friday, June 29, 2018 - 12:52 am:

Dennis got any of those Maxwell parts left? One of my rare cars is a 1 of 4 Maxwell. Then again pretty much any Maxwell is rare now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Whelihan Danbury, WI on Friday, June 29, 2018 - 07:28 am:

Back to ECON 101. Value is largely dependant upon supply and demand. Without demand the supply is irrelevant. Therefore, demand largely determines price. If there are no buyers, all you have is a curiosity on your hands. Very simple.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis R on Friday, June 29, 2018 - 11:59 am:

Troy-
Sorry, no more Maxwell parts left, they were donated to a now defunct museum. From there I don't know where they went to. There was a complete engine (Can't remember the year it was) that had been rebuilt- pulled the head and found new pistons and valves. The wet clutch looked new and the transmission looked great. Kind of wish I had kept the parts now. I could be building a Maxwell speedster instead of a Chevy... (Yes, I've partially gone to "The Dark Side" insert maniacal laugh here)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Codman on Friday, June 29, 2018 - 03:41 pm:

If the manufacturer made 10,000 of them 90 years ago, and there are precisely 600 that survived, and there aren't more then 100 people on the planet Earth that want one - rare is meaningless; you will still have trouble giving the thing away.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David L Corman on Friday, June 29, 2018 - 06:26 pm:

I guess none of you have priced a Ferrari GTO lately ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, June 29, 2018 - 07:56 pm:

"Rare" is a silly thing. Or is a silly thing rare? I like that Delage! And I have never been crazy about '30s cars. Simply too new for me to be really interested. It is the era of the earlier cars that attracts me.

So many people go so nuts over the notion that "their car" is "one of a kind". Actually, though, isn't EVERY car "one of a kind"? It is after all one of them. And regardless of how many of them there are? It is the "kind" of a car it is "one of".

As for being the only one like it in the world? I have commented more than a few times over the years that there are more "only one like it in the world" cars than there are model T Fords. And about fifty thousand of those "only car like it in the world" cars ARE model T Fords.

There are of course many (actually many thousands!) of significant "only one like it" cars. Whether Delage, Duesenberg, or any of a hundred other marques, many thousands of incredible "one of a kind" cars worth mega bucks.
So how "rare" really is a "rare" car?
The 1958 Chevrolet four door sedan with a top of the line option heater and a bottom of the line option radio, only survivor of only two that combination and color built by Chevrolet that year? Suffice to say, regardless of what the owner thought about it? Wasn't worth a nickel extra because of it.

No wonder I sometimes alienate people.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith McGowan on Friday, June 29, 2018 - 08:41 pm:

Wayne, not wanting to brag, but my "one of a kind Delage" was also owned at one time by Peter Ustinov, and I had the documentation to prove it. I figured that made the car worth an extra fifty cents.
The last I heard the car was sitting in Paris with a cracked block. Sad. It is a beautiful car.
Delage


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Friday, June 29, 2018 - 08:49 pm:

What may be under-appeciated and of little interest and value today may be highly desirable and very valuable tomorrow.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Friday, June 29, 2018 - 10:42 pm:

While there is some truth to this threadís title. It was posted my the same person who thinks Grant was at Gettysburg with Custer....

Cheers,
Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By brass car guy on Saturday, June 30, 2018 - 01:05 am:

I had a very old pancake 4 speed aluminum case mid ships mounted transmission that I could not identify.

One of my Canadian friends came by and told it was for a 1906 Canadian Russell. That was the good news and very rare. The bad news is no 1906 Russell's exist. Ultra rare, no market, no value.

just sayin'

brasscarguy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Grisbee---Cheyenne Wyo on Saturday, June 30, 2018 - 01:26 am:

I had a 1951 Muntz Jet with a Cadillac engine in a shed in my back yard for awhile. They were rare but didn't get valuable until sometime after I sold it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Saturday, June 30, 2018 - 02:58 am:

I restored Muntz Jet number 28.
It has a Cad engine.
Maybe the same car?
Making it even rarer ( more rare?) it has a three speed stick transmission with an overdrive.
With new paint & the original removable hard top the finished car is worth about the same as a T roadster.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Saturday, June 30, 2018 - 08:14 am:

I have a very rare 1915 Model T touring car that I would be willing to part with for $225,000. Nice patina. Some rare fiberglass patches on the fenders.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Saturday, June 30, 2018 - 10:57 am:

I've got a 1925 Gray touring. Made for only about 4 years. Probably about 10 -12 left. Rare? In numbers. Valuable? Naw.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David L Corman on Saturday, June 30, 2018 - 07:31 pm:

Rare plus desirable equals expensive-Some examples:1963 Corvette Grand Sport, Ford GT 40 , Masaratti Birdcage, Ford Cobra SC, and C or D Jags


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Saturday, June 30, 2018 - 09:31 pm:

Marty,

Would very much like to see the Gray at OCF! It is the seldom seen cars that I love about the OCF.

Cheers,
Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John T. Tannehill III, Hot Coffee, MS on Saturday, June 30, 2018 - 09:45 pm:

If possible if you have a 1911 Torpedo steering column with mounting bracket, a 1909 touring steering column mounting bracket, the air intake for a 09 or 11, 5 ball and perhaps a 1909/10 head (non water pump) Iíd like them for some projects. They must be rare because Iíve been looking for them for a while. Iíd rather not have the valuable price though. Regular is just fine. Darrel is correct though and as others have said much better than I, rare does not always equate to valuable. Desire,need and want dictate the value/worth.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Grisbee---Cheyenne Wyo on Saturday, June 30, 2018 - 11:43 pm:

Aaron,My Muntz was #123. I have rarely seen one advertised but seems like the last one a few years ago was the equivalent of four or five T roadsters.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Sunday, July 01, 2018 - 07:27 pm:

Willis, as soon as I finish the restoration it will be at OCF.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas landers on Sunday, July 01, 2018 - 07:50 pm:

Marty, you have a couple months left!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Monday, July 02, 2018 - 12:18 am:

I have a friend with a July 1912 but it has a 1911 engine in it. I bring this up because 30-40 years ago he bought a 5 ball that is now lost in his collection of STUFF and he has no idea where it is. Someday he will find it because I keep telling him he needs a 4 ball for his 12. ( I don't know if the 5 ball is early or late style) They are out there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Monday, July 02, 2018 - 12:23 am:

Clay?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Monday, July 02, 2018 - 09:07 am:

Yes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire (La Florida!) on Monday, July 02, 2018 - 09:59 am:

Standard shift transmissions are getting very rare, but ask any used car dealer "you can't sell them so they are worth-less!


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