Pin found in trans

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Pin found in trans
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Rens on Monday, July 02, 2018 - 01:24 am:

I am a newbie T owner, having bought one last year. A 26 touring, in basically complete and runnable condition. I have driven around the block couple of times. First gear and reverse and trans brakes working. I have not tried 2 gear yet.

Have been through some trans adjustments, trying to figure things out. Took the cover off and found a pin laying on the top of the bands. Where does it belong?? And how to solve issue?. I have not found anyone in my city with T trans knowledge. It was running, and I backed it into my garage, with pin not in place. I put some trans cover bolts in pic for scale. Can it be driven around the neighbour hood as is??

pin





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Instness on Monday, July 02, 2018 - 01:34 am:

Les,
It looks like the pin that holds the cam on the low gear pedal shaft. It should have been peened over on the ends to hold it in place but someone may have replaced it without doing that. If the cam was stuck on the pedal shaft, low gear will still work. Pull the inspection cover off again and look to see if there is a hole missing a pin on the cam of the low gear pedal shaft.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Pharis on Monday, July 02, 2018 - 01:45 am:

The only pin similar to that would be the pin that retains the clutch spring. Can’t imagine how it got out tho!?!? That pin is a bear to take in/out, and is baffling to think that it got out all by itself. You should try and verify that there is in fact a pin in the clutch spring retainer (should be able to do this visually thru the inspection plate), it is possible that this was simply a spare part when the motor was assembled last. If this is the clutch spring retaining pin, you will likely need to pull the motor to repair the situation. You can consider your rebuild options at this point


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Pharis on Monday, July 02, 2018 - 01:51 am:

Can you give some fairly accurate measurements of the pin? Pedal pins are 1/4” x 1-1/4 roughly... clutch spring pin is 3/8 x 2” roughly (IIRC).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Instness on Monday, July 02, 2018 - 01:54 am:

Looking again at the size in comparison to the bolts, the clutch spring mentioned by Kevin looks more likely.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Rens on Monday, July 02, 2018 - 12:18 pm:

Thanks guys. the pin is 2 1/4 long by .300 thou.
I had a look in there. And had a look at a parts breakdown of trans. looks like clutch spring retainer is not there. I can see a hole in main shaft. No way to get it back together without pulling engine?? And it was working without it in place. Although I have not tried 2nd gear.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, July 02, 2018 - 12:33 pm:

The Ford service manual has a section on replacing the clutch spring in the car. It does involve disconnecting the rear axle and removing the ball cap from the back of the transmission.

I have not tried it myself. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, July 02, 2018 - 12:36 pm:

https://www.modeltford.com/item/T1.aspx


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, July 02, 2018 - 12:50 pm:

Second gear is direct drive connected by the clutch. If the clutch spring retainer and pin are missing, I doubt that you have a second gear. Like Kevin, I can't imagine how those parts could escape from an assembled transmission. But if they really are missing, you'll need to pull the engine/transmission and dig in to set things right.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, July 02, 2018 - 12:54 pm:

I think I recall hearing of one person who actually did replace the spring through the back of the transmission. If I remember correctly he said he'd never try it again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Monday, July 02, 2018 - 02:15 pm:

I did it once years ago on a tour. It took 3 pairs of hands, some strong language and lots of patience. Is it possible that someone put it together without the spring retainer thinking that the pin would hold the spring in place? Otherwise the spring retainer, or parts of it, must be floating around in the bottom of the pan. I say parts of it because I have come across spring retainers that had all kinds of stress cracks in them and it would not have taken much more for them to collapse.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Rens on Monday, July 02, 2018 - 02:43 pm:

I need to amend my previous post. I said it looks like the clutch spring retainer is not there. Ment to say the clutch spring retainer PIN is not there, as I can see a hole in main shaft. So this loose pin I have , somehow came out...?..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, July 02, 2018 - 03:58 pm:

Installing the retainer pin into the clutch spring involves compressing the spring, slipping the pin into place (I make that sound easy? Don't I?), then turning the retainer collar until it snaps onto the pin dis-aligning the hole so that the pin CANNOT come out without a major effort.
I DID once see an engine that someone previously failed to rotate that retainer collar, therefore leaving the holes lined up for the pin to escape. It had apparently been run for years that way with no problem from it. When discovered, the pin was half way out of the hole barely holding the spring in a barely functional manner. The pin was sticking out between the coils of the spring, limiting its motion. I volunteered and managed to get the pin back into place. Then rotated the collar like it was supposed be. It was NOT fun.

Because those pins are tricky to line up and install, some people have been known to make undersized pins to make the job easier. If someone did that? It would also make it easier for the pin to fall out if the collar was not turned to properly keep it in place (I do not recommend undersized pins).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Monday, July 02, 2018 - 06:21 pm:

I replaced a clutch spring after removing the differential, in car, with the leverage I used with resulting muscle soreness I would not want to do that again.

Had a round spring with the Watts clutch, that eventually worked its way over the retainer losing its effective spring pressure....... replaced with strong standard square cut spring.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Rens on Tuesday, July 03, 2018 - 02:17 pm:

Thanks Val... i had a good look at spring retainer in car, and can see all kinds of cracks in it. so this car has to come all apartfor sure eventully. Too bad, just wanted a beater to drive the grand kids around the block once in a while..lol..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Wednesday, July 04, 2018 - 09:30 am:

Les, as I recall there are slightly different spring retainers and some of them have slits that may look like cracks but are not so look it over very carefully before you jump to any conclusions. I might also add that for the temporary use you are planning getting the pin back in place correctly should enable you to enjoy the car for a bit before you have to tear into it. I wouldn't plan any long trips but you will find that these cars are tough and can run for quite some time with any number of issues! I am not anywhere near my parts stash right now or I would find some spring retainers to photograph for you.


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