Hose leak....Frustrated!!!

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Hose leak....Frustrated!!!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allen Banks on Wednesday, July 04, 2018 - 10:28 am:

Replaced all 3 hoses. For the life of me, I cannot get the top hose to seal at the head. I'm on my 6th attempt. I've tried clamping from loosely to extremely tight. I've tried letting RTV set up first before tightening, and tightening while wet. I've tried original clamps and the modern ones. I've tried RTV IN the hose first then attach, and RTV on the outlet then attach. I'm totally out of ideas and frustrated to no end. The neck is slightly pitted but can't believe RTV wouldn't cover any small pits. I guess my next move is to replace the neck with a new one unless anyone has a trick up their sleeve I haven't tried. Thanks!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Wednesday, July 04, 2018 - 10:41 am:

Might be leaking higher up and running down to the bottom, making it look like the leak is at the head. Clean everything up, then fill the radiator to a level above the top of the upper hose, then look carefully with a light and inspection mirror to see where the leak is really coming from.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Kelly Montana on Wednesday, July 04, 2018 - 10:46 am:

I had a similar problem with original style hose clamps. Went to modern clamps and that solved the problem.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Bond on Wednesday, July 04, 2018 - 10:49 am:

Photos would be helpful. Could be you need to do some clean up on the cast iron parts. I've used a little grease on them and did first tighten-up with the modern airplane style clamps, gradually tightening, loosening and twisting the hose until the leaking stops. Let it rest a while then tighten everything up again to resolve any dripping that might not at first be spotted. Once that's done and you're sure everything is well seated I replace the modern clamps with original style and snug them up. I think the problem is we tend to be too anxious to get it done in one shot. When you tighten things up, sometimes the hose will actually distort in another spot and you will just keep chasing the leaks. That's what is probably happening with the RTV. You keep opening up other leaks as the host is distorting while clamping.
Patience is the key along with clean parts.
Terry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Wednesday, July 04, 2018 - 11:05 am:

Sounds like it might have a small leak coming down from the top. Ck it really close.
A last resort would be to remove the old neck clean it up and apply a thin coat of JB Weld and sand to a smooth even finish.

That should give you a good surface for the hose to seal against.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, July 04, 2018 - 11:22 am:

Maybe it is your outlet fitting on the head. They can rust out and you might have a pin hole in it which is leaking. Try a different fitting.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lew Morrill on Thursday, July 05, 2018 - 12:27 pm:

I have had excellent result using a black light. Buy some black light dye made for coolant and a black light. You should find the source of your leak in no time. You may be wasting your efforts trying to fix a leak that is traveling from somewhere else. The dye is available at local auto parts stores. A very adequate black light goes for about $6 on the internet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Saylor, Citrus Heights, Ca on Thursday, July 05, 2018 - 12:36 pm:

Another idea that works sometimes. install using a sealant a modern worm drive clamp. Let it setup for a day or two. Them replace with the period correct clamp.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eck Sheppard on Thursday, July 05, 2018 - 12:47 pm:

A trick we used in the shipyard to locate leakes is to mix some blue line chalk with a little water to make a paste and brush around inspection area. If possible a little low pressure air blown on the area helps dry the chalk. Fill with fluid and a leak will show up as a wet dark spot. This has worked with all kinds of fluid and is ez to clean off when finished with the inspection. Very cheap and works very well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Thursday, July 05, 2018 - 12:54 pm:

The coolant leak will run downhill so it sounds like you may have a leak somewhere above the outlet fitting. It should be easy to see but may take a warm engine. Clean and check the soldered area around the fitting at the bottom of the radiator tank.

Not all RTV is the same. You've read here about Ultra Black which is Excellent made by Permanex.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, July 05, 2018 - 03:37 pm:

The guys suggesting that coolant may be coming down from somewhere else may be onto something. I recently had a "leaking hose" that was really a drip from the seam where the inlet attaches to the tank.

I use original style clamps, but not RTV. Using RTV makes future hose removal the job from Hell. Instead I smear grease on the pipe before I shove the hose on it. I also use fillister head machine screws on the clamps instead of round. That gives the screwdriver a better bite.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Thursday, July 05, 2018 - 04:09 pm:

Steve,.......you make an excellent point. Every upper hose I've ever tried to remove, especially after it's been in place of quite awhile, can really be a frustrating job. They ALL stick, even when no RTV or any other kind of "sealer" had been applied. And it's not only frustrating, but pretty darn hard on that soft brass inlet pipe and upper portion of the radiator! Not a good place to be jabbing around with a screwdriver, but that's what I usually end up doing when trying to break one loose! I've found that if you are careful when installing new radiator hoses, they'll seal fine with no sealer of any type. And John Regan's idea of using the more modern and improved worm's screw type hose clamps initially, and then later, installing the original type like shown in your picture, is a really good idea. In fact, not being a "purist", I always just leave the more modern and better type hose clamps on permanently. FWIW,.....harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Thursday, July 05, 2018 - 04:12 pm:

Steve,.......you make an excellent point. Every upper hose I've ever tried to remove, especially after it's been in place of quite awhile, can really be a frustrating job. They ALL stick, even when no RTV or any other kind of "sealer" had been applied. And it's not only frustrating, but pretty darn hard on that soft brass inlet pipe and upper portion of the radiator! Not a good place to be jabbing around with a screwdriver, but that's what I usually end up doing when trying to break one loose! I've found that if you are careful when installing new radiator hoses, they'll seal fine with no sealer of any type. And John Regan's idea of using the more modern and improved worm's screw type hose clamps initially, and then later, installing the original type like shown in your picture, is a really good idea. In fact, not being a "purist", I always just leave the more modern and better type hose clamps on permanently. FWIW,.....harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Thursday, July 05, 2018 - 04:13 pm:

DANG! That slight time-lag thing when posting, gets me almost every time,....sorry,.....harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Thursday, July 05, 2018 - 07:54 pm:

I use Ultra RTV along with NOS clamps and have had no leaks on my '14 for at least 6 years now. When I need to remove the radiator I never loosen the hoses; I always remove the iron inlet and outlets on the block. Those are easy to clean and re-seal with new gaskets. Once you get the hose joints leak-free, NEVER disturb them.

The last time I needed to remove an old hose that was cemented with RTV I just used a knife and cut it off. Took about a minute. New hoses aren't expensive.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Thursday, July 05, 2018 - 08:18 pm:

I'm with R.V. on this - just cut them off - what's your time worth ???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Mullins Spokane Wa. on Friday, July 06, 2018 - 12:14 pm:

I gave up on the red hose that's sold by the vender's. I use the modern black hose & hose clamps sold by NAPA or other parts stores.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eyssen - Abilene TX on Friday, July 06, 2018 - 12:36 pm:

Yeah, but Bill---the parts people always want to know what it goes on, or what the part number is.:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darryl Bobzin on Friday, July 06, 2018 - 01:53 pm:

The top can be a problem because the radiator and upper inlet don't always line up the best. If it is just a small leak, I would start the engine and get some heat in the water. When everything is up to running temp. give the clamps a good tightening. Heat will let the hose form better to make a better seal. You still need to have inlets that are fairly smooth. It is tough to seal against a rough surface.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Friday, July 06, 2018 - 03:36 pm:

I've learned from my Model T and modern car that the edge of the hose clamp needs to be as close to the bead on the outlet as possible. If the edge of the clamp is not snugged up to the bead on the outlet, then there can be weeping or leaking.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Curtis Fesler on Friday, July 06, 2018 - 03:42 pm:

I had the same problem in the same spot. I had to buy a new cast part because the old one was so rusty and pitted I could not seal it. I also went to the modern hose clamps. No more leak.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Friday, July 06, 2018 - 06:49 pm:

I purchase Goodyear black rubber hose in lengths & cut my own.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Mullins Spokane Wa. on Friday, July 06, 2018 - 08:37 pm:

Steve that's what I do.

Tim you can take your old sample in and match they have it in length you can cut to fit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Friday, July 06, 2018 - 10:33 pm:

I found the red hoses seal really well. Even on my pitted old things. A smear of #2 sealer does wonders (permatex seems to be the only stuff i can find now?)
As for hoses, what's my time worth? a heck of a lot less that the price of a hose. Cutting a hose seems unethical. People like me are making hoses from rags & silicon for lack of real hose.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Saturday, July 07, 2018 - 09:59 am:

It sounds to me like you have a bad water outlet. Find a smooth replacement, and your troubles are over.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Grisbee---Cheyenne Wyo on Saturday, July 07, 2018 - 01:32 pm:

Maybe a hairline crack in your outlet or a pit that goes through but doesn't look like it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe Fedullo, Milford MI on Sunday, July 08, 2018 - 10:01 pm:

Look at the inside of the new hose. I had one I bought from Langs that I just could not get to stop seeping. Out of frustration, I was going to coat the inside with some RTV, and I found that the inner black rubber lining had a void about 3/16" deep right at the edge. I checked the other hoses, and they all had voids here and there, but this was the only one at the sealing surface.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman on Sunday, July 08, 2018 - 10:48 pm:

I use the wire type hose clamps. They look great .. donít get deformed when you crank them down and are very effective.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Daren Carlson on Sunday, July 08, 2018 - 10:56 pm:

For starters toss the RTV. You should be able to install the hose dry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Monday, July 09, 2018 - 03:03 am:

I've never had any problem removing hoses with RTV on them, the silicone doesn't stick to the rubber. With a bit of a twist, they peel right off. Very effective for smoothing out rough and pitted inlets and outlets. JMHO Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Daren Carlson on Monday, July 09, 2018 - 11:09 am:

It's not the removal. RTV acts as a lubricant causing the hoses to move when tightening the clamps. With RTV is the hose actually secure? RTV is a band aid. The hose should be able to seal dry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Monday, July 09, 2018 - 11:19 am:

Ideally, yes; but conditions dictate actions. Pitted fittings, slight misalignments, and imperfect hoses all factor in.


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