Model T Ford Front axle T202 WT (T on top of W)

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Model T Ford Front axle T202 WT (T on top of W)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren F Rollins on Friday, July 06, 2018 - 05:04 pm:

I have one of these( Transue Williams) with good threads, I know it is early but what year or years?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, July 06, 2018 - 08:49 pm:

I am not absolutely certain, but I am fairly sure that the TW T-202 can be as early as 1913. The earliest ones had a slightly different T/W mark. Google use to answer questions. I asked a few years ago about the Transue and Williams merger, and got lots of history and details. I think the merger was in 1912. But when I tried to google it a year ago? All I got was current sales information for their products.
TW continued to supply some axles to Ford until about 1920, and I think a bit later.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Friday, July 06, 2018 - 11:21 pm:

Warren,

It is seldom a simple answer. But if it is for the two-piece front axle it would be approximately from January 31 (#36,972) that the new axle with the two-piece spindles appeared. Note there would have been some overlap when both old one piece and new two piece front spindle axles were used.

According to Trent Boggess on page 17 of the Sept-Oct 2003 "Model T Times" when he answered a question about the correct front axle for a 1911 Ford with the 2 piece spindle he shared the following. "Early 1911 two piece spindle axles seem to be entirely Transue Williams drop forgings and TW was the principle supplier of front axle drop forgings over the entire span of Model T production."

Hap again -- Note at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/599638/672927.html?1474407598 (also a good discussion of the 1909-early 1911 front axle) Trent shared:

March 19, 1919.

You see this date through out the "Record of Changes" or releases in the records at the Benson Ford Research Center. The key phrase is: "added the name FORD in script to this part".

Note that was the date of the change to how the part was to be made. It probably took them a little while to change the die or dies.

Base on those two items -- you could date a Non-Ford script TW two-piece front axle between the end of Jan 1911 to sometime a little after Mar 1919.

If the axle still has the original spring perches -- that could also be used to help date the axle.

Why the comment about it is seldom a simple answer?

Well the early 1909-10 axles appear to have only the letter "W." And Trent had said in that same article:

"Early 1911 cars using the one piece spindles are marked either with the W for Williams, as in Transue Williams, or the C superimposed over the H of Cleveland Hardware. Eventually the W became Transue Williams whose trademark was a T superimposed over a W. Early 1911 two piece spindle axles seem to be entirely Transue Williams drop forgings and TW was the principle supplier of front axle drop forgings over the entire span of Model T production."

But at: http://www.cantonrep.com/news/20170614/tampw-forge-in-alliance-to-close I saw:

"The T&W operations, once known as Transue & Williams, date to the 1890s when the business was formed to forge steel parts."

And at: http://www.cantonrep.com/news/20160928/starks-famous-frank-transue it has:

With Silas Williams, formed the Transue-Williams Steel Forging Corp. in 1895.



So maybe the question should be, "When did Transue-Williams change their trademark/forging mark from just a "W" in a circle to a "W" and "T" super imposed on each other inside a circle?

Always so much more to learn about the cars.

For Wayne -- if you type in you question in Google and at the end type site:mtfca.com it will limit the search to the MTFCA web site.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off

(Message edited by Hap_tucker on July 06, 2018)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Hylen- Central Minnesota on Saturday, July 07, 2018 - 12:09 am:

Let’s see a photo of what you have. The markings changed over the years. The earliest ones had a W in a circle right near the ends of the axle. ‘11-‘12 axles had the T over W logo in the same location sideways, with the top of the letters to the out board of the axle. ‘13-‘17 had the T-202 and the TW logo located just outside of the spring perch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Warren F Rollins on Sunday, July 08, 2018 - 02:46 pm:

On the right side of the axle T202 below same size Logo with WT (T on top of W) 11-12 ?


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