Has anyone successfully mounted the side mirror, 7853TEL, to the windshield frame of a Touring. I am having a devil of a time getting the one I bought to go on. No instructions came with the mirror. If so, I'd love some help and a picture or two.
What year and what is the problem? What instructions would be needed, it clamps to the stanchion.
It's a 1917 Touring. I need to know where it attaches to the frame. It doesn't seem to fit on my window frame and Langs has no information to help me.
Your 1917 is a straight windshield frame used until about early 1923 when the slant frame was introduced. It is a tubular construction holding the glass. The mirror is a clamp on type, and goes at the drivers sitting height so you can glance and keep your eyes on the road ahead. The further out you extend it th e more you can see on the left side and slightly behind you. Being a clamp on type mirror you could also use on the right side. I should say the windshield is a tubular construction holding the windshield pieces in their frames and also the top.
Different mirror, but it clamps on like this.
I protect the window frame with a piece of inner tube for padding.
I used double sided tape for the connection between the mirror and the frame. It helps to hold it more secure.
Haven't got the one from Langs, but I hope it's better than the brass one Steve showed. I have two on my '12 Touring and removed the one from my '12 Comm. RPU and put a heavier one on. The one shown is pretty lightweight and vibrates horribly.
Those mirrors were introduced by Sheldon Greenland back in the '60s.
I agree with Tim Wrenn - my T came with a mirror very similar if not identical to the one in Steve Jelf's post. It does vibrate almost to the point of uselessness. I am going to try to find a better mirror after I complete my steering column project.
I'm not sure if I bought the same one as you. Mine is the heavy brass rectangle beveled mirror for about $150. I tried clamping to the 1914 Touring windshield frame and it would not work either so I put mine on the brace holding the windshield up. To get it to fit on the frame I would have to grind off some brass on the inside towards the channel where the glass goes in. I still might grind and polish it. I hope this information helps?
I forgot to mention I put inner tube rubber in the clamp because I could not get it tight enough because it is to smooth and would move around. It does vibrate a little because of the rubber, maybe leather would work better. I do like it a lot better than the one Steve showed.
Here's how much mine vibrates. I can see what's behind me. Maybe there's something wrong with it.
I own 4 Model T's. They have a total of 11 mirrors. Going down the road, all of the mirrors shake. Don't blame the mirrors! Blame the car!
A little shaking doesn't matter as long as you can see what's behind you.
I doubt that anyone who ever owned one of these mirrors would deny that it's a worthless piece of junk.
I bought one, it was a waste of money and I threw it in the garbage where it belonged. -I replaced it with an oval mirror of high-quality which is no longer available, so I won't go into detail there. -However, there remains available the rectangular version of this very high-quality mirror and though a bit pricey, I think it is well worth the money. -As my Dad used to say, "Cheap is expensive." -Here's where you can get a very good mirror that mounts the same way as the piece-of-junk mirror:
This one is nice and solid too, clamps on existing hinge screws.
Sorry Bob, the mirror you call junk works fine for me.
The early ones were heaver and better constructed then the later ones.
An honest difference of opinion, then.
If it shakes too much, put fishing sinkers in it. Or a coil of solder fed through any water drain holes. Worked on motorbikes most of the time...
I'm with Bob on his choice! Bud.
Bob's choice may be great (I haven't tried it), but I wouldn't call the other one junk. As Dave says, it works for me. (See the video.)
I know it's not period correct but I adapted two small motorcycle mirrors and they work great. They don't vibrate and I can see who is going to rear end me. Cost me about $16.00 each.
Between two T's and 24 years i had 3 of the cheap round but about 7/8 years ago i got a chance to buy the [good as pictured]used for 100.The one Ed pictured also looks like quality.Step up and try one.Bud.
Bob's is the same mirror I bought this winter and it is far better than any other I have tried. So if you have not tried it don't knock it.
Hugh, did this solve your mirror problem? Havenít heard from you?
Bob - I guess if your wealthy enough to buy a $40 mirror and throw it in the garbage, you're wealthy enough to buy a $166 mirror because its better! My problem is not only that I'm certainly not that wealthy, but I've done enough truck driving in my life that I'm used to having outside mirrors on both sides, and there's no way I'm going to pay $332.00 (plus shipping) for any pair of mirrors, no matter how good they are! That's just "nuts" in my opinion!
I bought the much cooler looking Oval mirrors from Chaffins. I like them a lot better because of the oval design with beveled glass and are just a bit smaller which to me is more appropriate for a Model T sized car.
The first one is brass and much cheaper and the second has a black ring around the glass but a superior mounting attachment.
I'm not wealthy. -In fact, I was forced to retire back in 2001 when I became disabled. -I'm jaded and have become skeptical because of frequent disappointment caused by inferior products. -I lived with the $50 round mirror for a couple of years and it required constant tightening and readjustment. -And even when I could get the cheap, stamped, sheet-metal mount to temporarily grip the windshield, it vibrated so badly, it was practically useless. -True, another person's experience may differ, but I suspect that such lucky individuals would be in the minority. -For me, it was the same as throwing fifty bucks in the trash.
Harold, when my Dad used to say, "Cheap is expensive," he meant that the consumer who habitually buys cheap products often finds that he has wasted his money on something that must later be replaced by the more expensive item. -He buys two when he could have bought one.
Yes, the rectangular mirror is a little bit overpriced, but that having been said, it is also the highest-quality side-view mirror available for mounting on a tubular, Model T windshield frame. -And to put that in perspective, I doubt that replacing a side-view mirror on most modern cars would be any less expensive.
Just my humble opinion, for what it's worth, respectfully submitted.
I've got TWO of the Junk mirrors, I got one new with a tarnished spot for $5.00, and the second new for $20.00, also tarnished. A little shake, I have a solid mounted diesel in my truck, so no mirror is gonna be too still. My experience is very similar to Steve's. I'd love to have Bob's type of mirror but they are a budget buster for me.
(Message edited by tinman080 on July 09, 2018)
Thanks to everyone for responding. I'll tale all of your suggestions and see if I can get this mirror working on my "17"
Where Model T Ford parts are concerned, there seem to be two tiers of quality available and it's good that our suppliers sell both kinds. -This year, I bought a set of ball-bearing race-cups for my front wheels and as it turned out, these needed grinding and polishing before they could be used. -It other words, they were a starting point for a hobbyist with the equipment to make the parts usable. -I didn't know that and so, ended up making a second purchase; this time I got new-old-stock Ford race-cups which were somewhat more costly, but could be used right off the bat.
Now, if, for instance, you've purchased the little planetary gears that go in the steering case, perhaps, for you, they didn't fit and needed some filing or machining or whatever to make them usable. -Overseas-made parts are notorious for this kind of thing. -Over and over, I found that I had bought parts that "needed a little help," and that's fine for those expert mechanics who own torches, welding equipment, lathes, etc., but for a guy like me with little more than a set of hand-tools and jack-stands, the overseas-made, "almost-but-not-quite-there" parts are... well, useless.
A couple of years ago, I bought the modern, overseas-made version of the rear hub-puller. -It was a piece of junk that didn't work. -Fortunately, I was able to return it and buy a vintage puller that works like gangbusters. -Of course, it cost more; you only get what you pay for.
So okay, now I've gotten into the habit of questioning the suppliers to make sure I'm getting either new-old-stock or the highest quality variant of the part I need. -Yes, the price of the individual item is higher that way, but this is another instance of my Dad's slogan, "Cheap is expensive" (because, so many times, I ended up buying it twice).
There's no getting around it; the collector-car hobby is always going to be a whole lot more expensive than, say, calligraphy, crocheting or arts & crafts. -At the very least, it requires a garage, insurance, registration, inspection and good deal of tools and support equipment, not to mention the acquisition cost of the car, itself. -In the grand scheme of things, the purchase of a single mirror which will last a lifetime, but costs a hundred bucks more than the worst kind available, is just one more expense. -What the heck does a C-note buy nowadays, anyway? Dinner for two at a nice restaurant? -Buy the good mirror once and be done with it.
Bob, I agree.
I've been looking for "weathered" legitimately old rear view mirrors (side and center) for my 24 Touring since I first bought the car 18 months ago.
I've looked online and have scoured Chickasha (twice).
I'm not looking for perfect...in fact, I'm not interested in perfect or shiny. Maybe that's why I'm not finding any.
Don ... if any of the brass mirrors would work for you, but you would rather have a visually aged one, then you could strip protective lacquer off one (if it indeed does have a protective coating) ... and age/antique/patina with a brass aging solution of some sort. I've used something similar to this, in the past, for other projects:
https://www.houseofantiquehardware.com/brass-darkening-aging-solution?utm_source =froog&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=gdf&partner=froog&CAWELAID=120035490000004181 &CATARGETID=120035490000029815&cadevice=c&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxJaXstiX3AIVjgBpCh1Q 4AlaEAQYAyABEgJavfD_BwE
If brass isn't coated, you don't need to do anything to it. It will "age" on its own.
The Sheldon Greenland Greenland mirrors were pretty decent. Pretty sure the gauge of the metal was reduced when (I believe) that Vintique took over production of them. The reduced rigidity due to the thinner material is what makes them problematic. I would rather pay a little more for the thicker material. Would I buy them now? nope.
I can vouch for that Dan,
I was on tour in Az one time with Kirk Peterson riding with me and I noticed my new Oval mirror hanging by a thread. Kirk grabbed it and I returned it for another.
I noticed the metal after the stamping was so thin you could nearly see light through it.
I believe I fixed both of mine using some epoxy poured inside with the mirror removed to give added strength to the thin metal. So far they've been good...
I didn't know they are not available anymore. That's too bad cause they are a perfect size for a T.
Don, I've aged copper using ammonia vapor. It might work on brass too. I put a little ammonia in a tub with the copper pieces held above (not in) it. I sealed the container and left it outside in the sun for a day. The vapor reacted with the copper to darken it. It would be simple to test with brass. I've also aged brass by dipping pieces in copper sulfate, similar to what Dennis linked. I don't think that my solution has an acid in it like the linked product. Copper sulfate turns the brass very dark in a matter of seconds. I've also used copper sulfate to add a "black oxide" finish to zinc plated hardware for my other car.
Sounds good....thanks for the aging info.
I'm needing to age a couple brass clips that I'm going to use for some leather hood straps. I think I'll just strip the coating off and throw them on the roof of my shed for a few weeks.
I went with the same mirror that Ed n Cal. posted. I have the bulk ones and did have to drill into my Stanchions. Had to pull out the weather strip ,but was able to reinstall it with a few choice incantations. The mirror has some insulation for reducing vibrations in the mirror. I love 'em.
The Mirrors in picture George posted are great and look good on a black era T.
The Tour in AZ was a fun tour. Hanging out with Gene was a grabbing experience. Gene reciprocated by picking up my gen cover while I was attempting to exceed the speed limit.
It appears most of the favored mirrors have the 3 tightening screws around the adjusting ball behind the mirror??
Too bad they used phillips head screws!
I dabbed black Rust Oleum the screw heads to make it Not so obvious.
I just ordered one like George's. Figured I would file off the embossing on the bolts, and replace the mirror retention screws with slotted screws as I get closer to my morphendyke ceiling period correct.
Who and what number did you order the mirrors?
I have two like the one in Steve J.'s first picture. They have worked OK for me. They do shake a bit and turn on the windshield tubing.
I ended up discarding the bracket for one. I made this bracket from some brass stock and a pipe nipple. A screw inside replaces one windshield hinge screw. Another longer than standard screw is used above it.
I like the looks of it. It vibrates as all mirrors I have tried do. I have the larger rectangular mirror mounted on my YPC Bus. It is extended fully out and vibrates more than any other I have. Fuzzy images from these are some help but I'm not sure there is a perfect solution for old cars that shake.
I did have to re-solder the old mirror a couple of times. I also shimmed this one around the rim with thin paper as it was rattling. The sound was about the same as my fan hitting the scrip screws. It is difficult to sort out the rattles sometimes.
I run those Antique Motor Sports mirrors on the '27 touring. Mounted to drilled hole in stanchions like George did, love these, work fine.
Only issue was once I dropped the top, and put on the top boot, the overhang of the '27 touring top and boot obstructed my view of what was behind me.
So cut a strap of metal, and made a 2" or so extension to put the mirror out more, and they clear the glass wind wings better now anyway
...and being anal about Phillips head fasteners on a T, changed them out for single slot fasteners on the tripod mirror swivel mount, the mirror heads don't shake, only the T and me when driving
Richard, I like your work. No extra holes drilled in Ford parts, old time materials and fasteners and a really inventive solution which looks period correct.
Allan from down under.
I found them on E-bay via a search for Model T rearview mirror:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Model-T-Ford-rear-view-mirror-1916-1927/161589139780?ep id=914103218&hash=item259f769944%3Ag%3ADfYAAOxyzGlQ6umX&_sacat=0&_nkw=Model+T+re ar+view+mirror&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313
It should have arrived, by the time I get there this weekend! ;-) If I like it (I assume I will) .... I'll likely get a 2nd one for the passenger side (He can send 2 for the price of one shipping .. I should have done that!)
I agree with Bob Coiro on the purchase of quality parts. Many years ago I heard a phrase "Nobody ever got fired for buying the best". Possibly a slight overstatement, but the point is that when you only have to purchase something once, it eliminates the need to fix the thing or even replace it down the road.