Upper radiator necks don't line up

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Upper radiator necks don't line up
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allen Banks on Wednesday, July 11, 2018 - 10:41 pm:

Maybe this was the source of my leak frustrations. So looks like the radiator is plumb, which means the radiator needs to move forward. Is this possible?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Annaian - Moultonborough NH on Wednesday, July 11, 2018 - 10:53 pm:

You might be able to adjust the rod at the top to "pull" it towards the firewall a little. Other than that, some are like that I believe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham, Blackfoot, Idaho on Wednesday, July 11, 2018 - 11:00 pm:

Radiator truss rod determines how the hood fits . . . does it fit up well, or can the radiator be tipped toward the engine slightly without taking the hood too far out of alignment ? It's not the best arrangement, but even "as-is" you should be able to get the outlet hose to seal OK.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, July 11, 2018 - 11:25 pm:


I've seen worse. As the other guys have said, if the hood fit will let you tilt the radiator back a hair that will help. But even as it is, I think the hose should fit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Thursday, July 12, 2018 - 04:32 am:

Use a thicker gasket on the water outlet :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Thursday, July 12, 2018 - 09:21 am:

Happens all the time on the things I work on (which are all beat to hell). Use a longer hose and it will seal up fine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Thursday, July 12, 2018 - 10:13 am:

Welcome to the misalignment club! Seems theyr'e all that way. My most recent '12 is even worse, but after having it all apart for "work" I managed to get it all back together. Really hate the thought of ever taking that rad off the car again though!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Andreasen on Thursday, July 12, 2018 - 10:16 am:

I like Kep's idea best.....use a thicker gasket on the engine water outlet to move it forward. That way you don't have to mess with your hood alignment.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carl Sorenson-Montrose,CO on Thursday, July 12, 2018 - 10:48 am:

I think it could be the frame sagging Ever-so slightly at the rear motor mounts...I think your allowed to sag when your 96 years old ....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, July 12, 2018 - 10:51 am:

I would suspect that the frame is sagging in the middle near the crankcase ears. If you can fit a hose on that and it seals, don't worry about it. If it settles too much it will throw off your castor in the front axle and make it hard to steer. Also it will make the hood and doors hard to line up. If all these problems exist, you need to straighten the frame.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Thursday, July 12, 2018 - 12:06 pm:

Allen, before you start digging up bottle jacks and stripping things down to straighten the frame, take a deep breath and try the following:

1. loosen adjusting rod from upper tank to the firewall
2. loosen radiator mounts at frame
3. align your hood, cowl and radiator
4. tighten the adjusting rod and mounts to lock in your hood alignment
5. Get a longer outlet hose. Depending upon what color you are using for the inlet, get a red or black Model A one to use on the outlet. The Model A outlet hose is longer than a T (especially if you use a 30-31 Model A hose).
6. Seat the hose as close to the upper tank and as far down the gooseneck as your alignment will allow.
7. Clamp with MODERN hose clamps (this is only temporary).
8. Run the vehicle and check for leaks (tighten the MODERN clamps accordingly to seal leaks)
9. Once leakless, drive the car for about a week - engine heat will help the hoses form to the contact points and the MODERN clamps
10. After a week or so (maybe a bit longer), replace the MODERN hose clamps with original style - placing them in the marks made by the modern clamps.

Has NEVER failed to work for me.

If she's still leaking after all that, then go look for a bottle jack and chain.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Thursday, July 12, 2018 - 12:10 pm:

Also, you should be clamping as close to the ribs on the gooseneck and upper tank pipe as possible. I always clamp to the BACK side of the ribs - some I know prefer to clamp to the front side. Whatever works for you and creates a decent seal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Thursday, July 12, 2018 - 12:23 pm:

One final trick: get a bicycle inner tube (I forget the size I typically use - think it's 16"). Cut a segment out of it and stretch it over the first few inches of your gooseneck. Cut another segment and do the same with the pipe on your upper tank. Make sure the sections are wide enough to overlap the ribs on each by an inch or so. Then follow steps 6-10 listed above.

The inner tube sleeves form a "soft seal" for the hose to bond with. They make up for any imperfections in the metal (like pits) where coolant can escape. It makes the hose more of a challenge to slide on, but a little spray silicone can help with that. I do this when the upper tank neck or the gooseneck (or both) are especially pitted (as is often the case).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R. S. Cruickshank on Thursday, July 12, 2018 - 12:53 pm:

Almost all the fixes for this situation have been mentioned except one!! Try lowering the tire pressure in the front tires and increase the tire pressure in the rear tires!!!!!!!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george house . . .caldwell county, TX on Thursday, July 12, 2018 - 01:46 pm:

Another painfully simple fix is that your engine head water outlet is an earlier style to fit a deeper top tank brass radiator. They were different. The later, pre 1926, water outlets were cast slanted forward toward the radiator ever so slightly. Just my .02 c worth...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Layden Butler on Thursday, July 12, 2018 - 01:55 pm:

The angle is distinctively different on the cylinder head water outlet for a brass radiator. Allen does not have one of those.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Doleshal on Thursday, July 12, 2018 - 04:56 pm:

Car likely had a front crossmember replaced and has the wrong crossmember.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Friday, July 13, 2018 - 09:46 am:

My 21 had a similar issue with the alignment as shown the the first pic.
I removed the neck on the head and used it to make a pattern for a "shim" between the neck and head.
I used a piece of steel 1/4" plate for the "shim" and the alignment is now perfect.

And no it's not original but it works fine. Unless you looking for it you don't notice it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Friday, July 13, 2018 - 09:50 am:

I like the shim and two gasket idea better than a single, super-thick gasket. I'd be worried about the outlet ears cracking from the super-thick gasket compressing under the mounting bolts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Warren on Saturday, July 14, 2018 - 07:57 am:

Look at your radiator mounts. Springs broke? tightened too much? Martin has some good drawings of the mounts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Saturday, July 14, 2018 - 06:09 pm:

Making the shim was fairly easy. I used a cutting torch, 1/2 inch cordless drill and a beach grinder. The 1/4 " flat steel was an old shredder blade I had in my iron pile behind the shop.
I then used 2 gaskets, and slightly longer bolts I bought at Ace hardware to install the neck back on the car.


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