Front Wheel Bearing Question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Front Wheel Bearing Question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Clements on Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - 12:53 pm:

I am replacing the front wheel bearings and races in wire wheel hubs. The new Timken outer races are .005" smaller than the old Timken races. This leaves the new race lose in the hub. Are my races defective? Are all the new ones made to the wrong specification? Or, did they make a .005" over size race at some time? The old race is #205A and the new replacement race is #09194. Has any one else ran into this problem?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, July 18, 2018 - 01:30 pm:

A new #09194 in my shop measures 1.935". The part number and Made in Canada are printed on the outer edge but are so faint I need a strong shop light to see them. If the old cup is 1.940" and was pressed in anyway, that would account for the correct one being loose.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Thursday, July 19, 2018 - 01:12 am:

Scott, the wire wheel front hubs are often split on the outer end. They are thin in the first place. I would be inclined to think your hub may be wallowed out a little. Refitting the cup with a shim may be the answer.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Clements on Thursday, July 19, 2018 - 01:32 am:

Steve, Thanks for the reply. My new 09194 is marked on the bottom and made in USA. It measures 1.9385". The old T205A race is marked on the top but I do not see were it was made. It measures 1.9435". I tried to find a T205A online and it does not seem to exist, not even a race with this OD.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Clements on Thursday, July 19, 2018 - 01:34 am:

Alan, I did not look real close. I did not anticipate this issue! The old race was tight in the bore. I will take a closer look tomorrow.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Thursday, July 19, 2018 - 03:19 am:

Scott, you can do your head in trying to get it right! but here go's

The original was 1-15/16"OD
that converted to 1.9375" or 49.225mm by today's bearing chart, then that mm converts back to 1.9380"

Now, I pulled a cup out of a 27 wire wheel hub to see what it was.
Timken USA #09196, that by chart is the same as #09194 but to measure it comes in at 1.9390"
so that if is still made to the old size, should give you .0045" closer to the 5 you are looking for.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Clements on Thursday, July 19, 2018 - 11:39 am:

Frank, 09196 appears to be for a Model A. If it measures at 1.939" I think it will still be loose, but yes it will be .0005" larger than 09194. I would think the manufacturing tolerance would be +/-.0005". If so, I could possibly get one that is smaller by .0005" and would be the same diameter? I am going to take a closer look at the hub and measure the bore to find out exactly where it is.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Brown on Thursday, July 19, 2018 - 12:07 pm:

Locktite makes a bearing mount to use for a loose race. I am not sure but I believe it takes up to .005 clearance. It is used in industry a lot.
You might check with Napa or your local parts house and ask what it will do. If I remember right it is green.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Clements on Thursday, July 19, 2018 - 12:47 pm:

The bore measures from 1.944" to 1.948". So, it is not round and it does appear that a previous race has spun, possibly the current one? It did start to squeal and get hot. Only drove if maybe a half mile? Just bought the car, so don't really know any recent maintenance history. I was able to peen the bore and shrink it up. I think with some Loctite loose fit, it will work, until I find a replacement. Now the question, witch Loctite?
I think 609 is press fit and 648? is for loose fit?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Clements on Thursday, July 19, 2018 - 12:50 pm:

Dennis, Yes, Loctite sleeve and bearing retainer formulas are green.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Clements on Friday, July 20, 2018 - 01:55 am:

I got some Loctite 620. It is for a loose fit with gaps. Installed the new 09194 race. It drove in nice and tight. Going to let the Loctite cure over night.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Clements on Saturday, July 21, 2018 - 02:44 pm:

I got it back together and then did the other side. Turns out I miss read the number on that race. It is actually T2956. The other race is the same number and measures 1.9385" just as it should. So, My conclusion is that the race was manufactured to the wrong diameter. Or, at some point they did make over sized races? If so, one would think that it would be marked to identify the over size diameter?
Thanks for all the replies!!


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