Proper way to set cotter pins on connecting rods?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Proper way to set cotter pins on connecting rods?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe Fedullo, Milford MI on Tuesday, July 24, 2018 - 09:05 pm:

I drained the oil in my T and I found the end of a cotter pin sitting in the drain plug.

I have since read that the cotter pins must be immobilized or they will wear and separate from the constant motion. I assume that is what happened to mine as I did nothing special to immobilize the pins when I adjusted the rods 2 years ago...

I am going to pull the pan tomorrow night and take a look / change all the pins to some military surplus ones I have that are amazing quality. What does everyone do to immobilize the pins? Tap the head in tight and fold the end tight?

Thanks,
Joe


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Tuesday, July 24, 2018 - 09:46 pm:

I like “Loktite “ and a torque wrench and no cotter pins!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Wednesday, July 25, 2018 - 08:17 am:

I use self-locking nuts. Not the ones with nylon inserts. Much easier than cotter pins.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks NY on Wednesday, July 25, 2018 - 08:59 am:

Joe- don't be afraid to use cotter pins. I have always used them with great successful as have millions and millions of other engines.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Wednesday, July 25, 2018 - 12:37 pm:

Are we talking the cotter pins in the rod cap bolts or the cotter pin in the wrist pin bolt?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 06:27 am:

Use small block Chevy rod bolts and nuts and forget about them. They are tougher than the originals and fit and work well. Afterall, they are designed for a LOT more horsepower and don't need any safeties. JMHO Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 07:28 am:

Joe,

Mike Bender has a good video on how to torque rod nuts and install the cotter keys, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EifCOka8Qyo&list=PLYG_lIhIwKyLG8WQm4tGmKK1nA0Yct p6G&index=37

He hammers the keys in then bend over one leg and hammers it shut on the end of the bolt. He then cuts the remaining leg short and bends it onto the nut. I like to hammer the cut leg onto the nut using a drift if I cannot get the hammer into the confined space of the engine with the pan on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Andreasen on Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 08:18 am:

On reciprocating parts, I like to use the method Neil suggests. By bending one leg over the bolt end and the other down across the nut, any inclination to turn is eliminated. Putting the cotter in sideways and bending the legs AROUND the nut will allow them to loosen.

It's one of those points that Ford didn't cover very well in the book......after all, EVERYONE knew how to set a cotter....right? :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 08:20 am:

When you have the engine in front of you on an engine stand, it's very simple to use cotter pins. But I can tell you from experience that when you are underneath the car and working through the inspection plate trying to adjust your rods, they are not your friends. Especially when you have a 3-dip pan.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 10:21 am:

Ditto on what Mike says. Who cares what way they go in when you are laying under the car trying to get them in, and thinking about that nice cold beer I have in the fridge?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Landry, Hudson, NH on Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 10:51 am:

If you use dippers, the nuts likely won't go on far enough to get cotter pins in. I used self-locking (prevailing torque) nuts and they worked fine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Tillstrom 30 miles N of Memphis TN on Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 11:04 am:

I like the aircraft high temp lock nuts. They are crushed during manufacture making the hole slightly oval. These do not vibrate off. You can get them from Aircraft Spruce as well as other places. They are carried under part number MS21042. You have to add -5 for 5/16, -6 for 3/8 and so on. They display the sizes with the suffix for the part number on their (Aircraft Spruce) site.
MS20142 lock nut


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe Fedullo, Milford MI on Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 06:24 pm:

I pulled the pan today and to my surprise I did not find any cotter pins damaged or missing. Some of them could wiggle, and when I pulled those out the area they contacted the bolt was a little shiny, but no appreciable wear.

For good measure, I replaced all of the cotters in cyl 1 - 3 rod bolts to crankshaft and made certain they were immobilized. (I tapped the heads of the pins in deep and then bent one end over the nut and the other along the nut.) Cyl 4 looked like it was going to be a pain in the butt with my 3 dip pan and those pins were already immobile so I left them alone.

The pins at the top of the rod all seemed immobile already so I left them alone as well.

So where could the end of the cotter pin I found in the drain plug have come from???

-Joe


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 06:40 pm:

Remove the transmission inspection cover and check the clutch fingers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Warren on Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 08:56 pm:

I don't use them either because it being so hard to get the proper torque. Most people over tighten an stretch the bolt to almost failure, to get the cotter pin in. On very rare occasions, when absolutely necessary, carefully get proper torque by changing the nuts around. Then install the proper cotter pin, properly and then loosen the nut just enough to bind the pin. ( Aircraft rods have cotter pins in them) No modern engines, that I am aware of, are using cotter pins. If you install the new rods from Snyders, they come with bolts that are tapped in to the rods. I took it a step further and installed the same type bolts in the piston pin clamps. ( no cotter pins required) :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe Fedullo, Milford MI on Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 09:53 pm:

I pulled the inspection cover, all 3 cotter pins on the fingers looked fine. Maybe it is a remnant of a previous pin?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 09:57 pm:

Maybe. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham, Blackfoot, Idaho on Friday, July 27, 2018 - 09:34 am:

So, rather than present a "proper" method for setting cotter pins, the answer is don't use them ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Codman on Friday, July 27, 2018 - 11:35 am:

I have used the method that Neil describes for just about every cotter pin where it is possible to do so. I have never had a cotter pin fail.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Friday, July 27, 2018 - 12:03 pm:

For those who want to use a locking nut, McMaster Carr has a variety of different styles but not the aircraft variety.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Friday, July 27, 2018 - 05:35 pm:

Mike Walker touched on what I consider to be a very important point:

I like self-locking nuts too, in place of cotter pins in many applications. However, as Mike said,...."not the ones with nylon inserts". Those are o.k. in some applications, however in any application where there is heat involved, I do no trust the nylon insert type. The all metal self-locking nuts that are aircraft approved are the best in my opinion. FWIW,.....harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Friday, July 27, 2018 - 07:53 pm:

The best are not needed.
A plain ordinary nut will do the job.
I like to use the Chevy V8 rod nuts. They are cheap and available.
There are millions and millions of engines in cars, trucks tractors and stuff with no cotter pins in the rod bolts and no self locking nuts.
It is more important to have them torqued to the correct amount than to have those stupid cotter pins in them
Save the cotter pins for the battery cable bolts and tail light lens screws.
Oh my god, I better go out and drop the pans on my old Volvo and ‘51 Ford and drill the rod bolts so I can put cotter pins in them. The factory forgot to do it!
From now on when it’s time to put fresh air in the tires I better check the cotter pins!


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