We are looking at this truck to possibly purchase. It has some issues and weathering. The bed is not original, and I can't seem to find out exactly which Model this is I believe it is a 1920? Was it a pickup truck or a TT Truck? It has the worm drive diff in it, which is apparently broken as the rear wheels will not turn. Any insight would be appreciated. Ken M
The hood and radiator make this TT in the low cowl era. 17-early 23. The engine and transmission was the same as the cars. The difference would be in the frame and differential if it was a TT.
It was not a pick-up. It's a TT. When you say the wheels will not turn, do you mean they won't turn when the engine is running and you try to put the truck in gear, or that the wheels can't turn, even in neutral with someone trying to push it, (in other words, locked up)?
As for the year, if you can get the engine number and post it here, we can tell you the year of the engine. The number is one the left side of the engine, just above the water inlet.
It's a TT for sure - year would be dependent on engine year but due to the short running boards & 23" rear wheels, I'd venture to say it's between a 1919 and a 1924.
After market cab & bed - Ford didn't produce their own steel cab until 1924.
Re: "apparently broken as the rear wheels will not turn" - does anyone know how to put it in neutral ???
It's a Ton Truck (TT). Have you checked the engine number for a date of production? Of course, you'd need to know if it's the original engine or not for that to mean much.
These old TT's can be hard to accurately date. Often the best you can hope for is narrowing it down to a range of a couple of years.
It has the short running boards, which indicate an early truck. Some pictures of the underbelly would help. Does it have the short or long rear chassis cross member? Do the rear end clam shells have the ""bead" where connected to the axle tubes? Which Patent plate does it have? Does it have a steel or wood fire wall?
That's all I can think of at the moment.
Question: are you sure it's the rear end that won't turn? There are other possibilities.
A "pickup" is a body type. Pickups were made on both T and TT chassis.
This appears to be a TT, low (black) radiator era. The low radiator cars were 1917 through 1923 models. TT trucks however, are slightly different. While a few (very few) were built during the '17 model year, they were mostly prototypes of some sort. Actual production of the TT didn't start until very late calendar 1917, or the '18 model year. It is believed that NO true 1917 TT trucks survive. Basically, forget having one.
IF the engine is the original one for the truck? The serial number will tell within days of when it was built. If the engine had been changed at any time? There are other clues that can narrow down the time frame to a year or two. Some of those differences will be the same as the cars for the same year (starters, battery mounts, light switches and dimmers). Some differences are unique to the TTs. There was a rear cross member change about 1921, and several changes to the rear end itself (some external and visible, others internal). Wheel options also changed over those years, but often don't help because later wheels were often put onto earlier trucks during their working lives.
A neat truck! Good clear pictures of the rear end, engine, and firewall (both engine side and passenger side) could help narrow down the likely model year.
Also, while the optional starter was available on cars as early as December 1918 (1919 model) for closed cars, and open cars about February of '19? I don't know for certain when it became available on the TT? But I have heard it wasn't until late in '19 (But I don't know just how late).
I really know very little about the TT's......but can a worm gear actually BE pushed? Any experience I've had with them, such as in a worm gear winch, tells me that they will hold or "lock" unless power is applied to the drive shaft.
Thanks for all of the replies. I am going to see this vehicle next week, so I don't have much about it right now. As far as the rear end, I am told that it is locked up. Apparently the current owner was towing it to a new location and while being towed, the diff locked up. The rear wheels will not turn. I will have to make an inspection to know more.
I will get all of the numbers off of it when I see it. I thought it might be a TT, but the cab was throwing me off. I couldn't find anything like it except for a picture of one that was listed as a pickup truck.
Would anyone venture a guess what this truck in it's present condition is worth? Thanks and I will be back with more info.
Make sure the motor is not locked up. Towing a T or TT any didstance is not recomended. Try to turn motor over with crank.
I'll do that. I need to find out what the problem is and how much it could cost to fix before we make a deal.
That cab is absolutely beautiful.
Whether a worm drive can be 'pushed' or whether it is 'self locking' depends on its ratio. Most worm drives that people are familiar with are pretty high reduction 30:1, 50:1, 100:1, that sort of thing. And yes, those, you would have a hard time trying to turn the worm by turning the worm gear. A TT is either a 5.17:1 or a 7.25:1 ratio (That latter is more common. The former is more coveted). The worm can easily be turned by the worm gear. That's what's going on when you are coasting. If it didn't, the rear end would come to a screeching halt every time you closed the throttle. I WILL say that TT's have impressive engine braking.
Something you didnt ask but might want to consider is the model tt is more limited in top end driving speed than a model t. The model tt uses the same engine and transmission as the model t yet can carry 2000 lbs of load, up and down hills and stop with a load. This is mechanically accomplished through the gear reduction of the rear end worm drive. Many auxiliary transmissions were available as aftermarket add ons, most were under drives that will limit the top end speed even more. A stock early model tt will top out at about 18 mph, a later model tt will top out at about 25 mph.
Model ts are slower than the other cars on the road and top out at about 45 mph,although the effective braking is for about 40 mph or less, and with only 2 forward gears there is often road and trafic conditions where you just have to accept creeping along in first gear. 40 years ago when I drove the model t I would get honks from other drivers followed by a thumbs up, a smile, and or a wave. People were courteous and allowed extra space and had patients. Today, I am more likely to encounter a honk and the finger from some angry driver.
I push mine in and out of garage all the time. as someone suggested, is it in neutral? An aux tranny makes neutral much more simple. Put a jack under rear in neutral and see what you get with turning one rear wheel, differential functions like modern open carriers. this may help isolate the bind to the rear or back to the motor/trans/clutch. just a thought.
Just comment, as don't have a TT, but Ford (Service Bulletin) didn't recommend towing a ton truck on all fours back in the day.
You Guys are very helpful! I appreciate all of the great suggestions.
I will be back with more info about it shortly.
The rear end of a tt is a work of art on the inside, I have a 22 tt firetruck and recently had the opportunity to do a freshen up rebuld and a gear swap because mine had been driven without lubrication because of a misunderstanding on type and location, we had been pumping standard grease into the top fill hole and it wasn't going to the worm and ring gear area. Used parts are available as well as new gaskets and bearings, btw it takes a different puller for the rear hub than the car takes. I'll answer any questions you may have if I can just pm me. Joe
Sounds like a busted up internal. Very very certainly towing it was the cause of internal diff damage.
Trucks are great (not fast but great) :-)
Kenneth, that truck is a beauty. Most commercial vehicles are square boxes, nice, but hardly inspiring. The double curve in the roof, the curved doors that follow the curve in the firewall, and the overall way the whole thing goes together, make it a truly delightful design which shows so much more style than the purely squared off boxes of most others.
I could put up with some extra mechanical woes, given the rest of this delightful package. Mechanicals are easy, bodywork like that is gold. Go for it!
Allan from down under.
Great looking truck. Get more pics both of the rear end and inside of the cab to determine if it has a two sp rear end or aux trans. Worm drive stuff is around and frequently turns up on ebay so the diff problem may be a help to you to get a better price!