I have a John Brown 105 tail light 0n my 12 touring. What is this light actually for 1913?

1912 only. charley

Thanks Charley. The painted parts confused me.

A 1913 is a Jno.Brown 115.

The confusion is what Jno. represents, Junior or Johnathan?

This J Brown light is a model 105 and it's been on our very original early Canadian 1913 touring, engine no. 872. It's seen some rough life! Been in our family since 1956, and I have all the info of the car since new. Could it be an overlap?

Depends. On how early a 13 you have. It appears your 105 has been repaired at some point. The cap with the ford name should be facing 180 out. Many times the whole set of tiers comes loose at the base connected to the lamp box. You may check to see if you can turn the whole assembly, if so you can sweat some 50/50 or 60/40 solder where it joins the box base. Use some flux so it will suck in.

Joe, look in the Model T Judging Guidelines, 1911 Page 2 and 1912 Page 2. The Jno Brown 105 tail light was used in late 1911 and through 1912. My late 1911 came with a 105 tail light, 100 side lights, and 19 headlamps as well as a Jno Brown generator which was verified through the Model T Manufacturing Card - Manufacturing Dept./Shipping Dept. print out I obtained at the Benson Ford Research Center.

According to what I’ve read, my car was built in September of 1912. The car was sold new in the fall of 1912. I have all the documentation for the car since new. Sold new in Tavistock Ontario Canada. Serial number B-872. Its been in our family since 1956. I even have a photo of the original owners you’re right John, the light has seen better days! Lol!!!! I will be restoring it soon. Thanks for the info!

Joe..my '12 Touring also has the 105 tail light..it too has seen better days but since it's original like most of the car, I'm babying it through! But if yours has some painted parts, you'll want to get some stripper out and get it
back to the all brass that it should be, I'm sure
you've already planned on that.

Hello Tim:
The lamps evolved to Black and Brass sometime during the 1912 model year...curious whether you and/or others have sound evidence that pinpoints when this occurred? Original mid and late 12's show that at least some painted #100 and #105 oil lamps were used in early 1913 model year production, as I assume were head lamps, although I have never seen an example of a Black and Brass #19 Brown head lamp. Numerous seemingly original mid and late model year 12's have Black dash hardware like the carb adjustment, steering spider, and speedometer bracket, where this leads me to question whether lamps, generators, and horns were also converted to Black at this same time.
Regards,
Scott

James,
Jno. is short for Jonathan.

Kind of like Geo. for George.

Wm. for William.

Won't for Will Not...

: ^ )

Scott:
Unfortunately no I don't. Got a hunch this will
be one of those very difficult areas to pinpoint due to all the time passing not to mention those who could tell us! My '12 Touring is 123,740.. late May. It has the black carb adjustment fitting on the dash. But it has a brass wheel spider. Unfortunately mine does not have a speedo. As in many assumed cases, this could be about when things were "transitioning"? So many questions, so few answers.

This is what a believe to be an original painted 105. It is all brass. Note that it is for a right hand drive with the clear lens to the left. So could this have been on a early 1913? I believe so. There is always going to be that fine line when model years change. Remember no parts went to wast.

Scott,

Bruce also said in his book B&B began mid 1912 Model year. Here is a '12 Torpedo with clearly a B&B horn.




However, Joe K may very well have an original B&B tail light on his 1912.

I have yet to see a period photograph of a 1913 style Ford (rather new like this '12 Torpedo) that could be determined to have all brass lamps on it.

About as close as we have gotten in the last ten years was on the "White Pole Garage" thread a week or so ago. (I still think those headlights are Victor No. 1's charley - grin)

Ken in Texas

Thanks Tim and Ken:
No question the lamps changed in 1912 as Bruce described...I'm curious whether that change may have been concurrent with another 1912 change event(s). The down-turned single twist horn for instance. Bruce says these were originally polished brass, and later a Black horn with a polished cover plate. Were lamps and other parts changed to Black and Brass at or near the same time? Seems there could be outside parts invoicing or other supply chain data where this finish is mentioned. When I see an original 1912 Ford photo, I try to determine whether the parts are Black, but all will agree, this is a tough call where the tarnished brass in a Black and White photo is nearly impossible to distinguish from dirty Black paint.
Regards,
Scott

I found my first T 1915 touring on this site last year. They I came across a 1912 touring on the AACA forum last Feb. It is an original car that was put in a museum in 1949 then in storage for the last 8 years. Has been in the same family from new until the now grandson at 82 had a second major stroke and had to part with it. Some of the small parts are missing off it that were easy to come off seeing were it has sat. A Canadian built car and even has a brass tag from the American auto trimming Co. Walkerville Ont. on the head roof bow. Has had the bottom seat cushion's and top replaced at one point. Thanks for all the input greatly appreciated.