Solid rear axle bearing issue:

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Solid rear axle bearing issue:
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Carnegie Spokane, WA on Thursday, September 20, 2018 - 11:50 am:

Why did this happen?

Regan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James G Fisher III Peachtree City, GA on Thursday, September 20, 2018 - 12:04 pm:

I would like to know too. I put in a set of solid roller bearings on my inners 2 years ago. The photos from the other thread of the axle shafts makes me want to take it apart and check it and change them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hanlon N.E.Ohio on Thursday, September 20, 2018 - 12:09 pm:

It looks like poor lubrication, or just a bearing failure.
I have to assume you were full of the proper lube.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Thursday, September 20, 2018 - 12:21 pm:

Tom, I've heard that using the solid bearings on the outside can cause failure because they don't have any give and take like the original spring wound hyatts do. Did you use them on the outside?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Thursday, September 20, 2018 - 12:24 pm:

Poor reproduction bearings. replace with good originals.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Thursday, September 20, 2018 - 12:49 pm:

The original Hyatt bearings, I believe, have a certain amount of preload which helps keep the rollers in proper contact with the shaft and sleeve. If they start floating around that may cause the damage to the cage as shown. The Hyatt bearings also have 8 rollers while the ones shown have 6. The Hyatt bearing rollers are held in place by formed conical protrusions on the inner surfaces of the end plates whereas the ones shown have pins and holes in the end plates. It is too bad that the Hyatt bearings are not being made anymore.

I have purchased several used Hyatt bearing and picked the best ones to rebuild a rear end.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Doleshal on Thursday, September 20, 2018 - 12:55 pm:

The repro bearings will do that inside of several hundred miles if there is any interference, or if they are fit the least bit tight in places. Such as if the sleeve has any high spots, the axle tube is bent a little, etc.

I have some repros on the outside on my Touring car that we drive a lot. Everything was fit properly and the sleeves were finish ground. I seem to get maybe 6,000 to 8,000 miles off the repro bearings before there is enough wear in the holes to replace them. I’ve had good used Ford bearings in there too and the Ford bearings do seem to last longer, but maybe only 25 to 35% longer.

I generally maintain my rear outer bearings the same way I do the front wheel bearings. Remove, inspect, repack, and re-install. Generally I wind up replacing one bearing and/or sleeve about every other year, which probably roughly averages up to 7,000 miles.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Doleshal on Thursday, September 20, 2018 - 01:05 pm:

I should also note that it is possible that I could provide nice repros of the original Hyatt roller bearing, but they would be priced around $90 each retail. We even had several of the rollers made up in rights and lefts, properly hardened & ground to make sure they were good before we had a die made for the ends. Talked to a couple vendors and was told that the vast majority of hobbyists would probably still purchase the $20 ones. Since the reward didn’t outweigh the risk, the project was shelved...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Thursday, September 20, 2018 - 02:04 pm:

For what it's worth, I just completely rebuilt the rear brake assemblies on my '29 Model A Ford. Along with new cast iron rear drums and new hubs, I also installed brand new rear wheel bearings. These came from Mikes A Fordable Parts, a very highly respected Model A Parts supplier in Maysville, GA. Of particular note is the fact that these two brand new roller bearings they sent me are spiral wound exactly as the old original Hyatts. The point being that apparently, someone is making them,....again, for what it's worth,.....harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eckensviller - Thunder Bay, ON on Thursday, September 20, 2018 - 02:44 pm:

Is the cage even necessary for these? Couldn't you just fill the void entirely with rollers?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Thursday, September 20, 2018 - 03:23 pm:

I have no idea why that happens.
As for Adam saying he has to replace a bearing or sleeve every 7,000 miles, What is he doing wrong? Mine never seem to wear at all.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Thursday, September 20, 2018 - 03:41 pm:

Adam,

The "Modern outer rear axle bearing kit" is $198.95. Inner ones are $125.

Neil


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kenneth w delong on Thursday, September 20, 2018 - 03:49 pm:

Was this on a Montana 500 car? A lot of old time farm equipent had those bearings which would cary a huge load but only at slower speeds? Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Carnegie Spokane, WA on Thursday, September 20, 2018 - 04:07 pm:

Not my car. I stole the picture from another thread. I just want to know what happened. Something is not right, and I don't believe it is because the rollers are solid.

My theory is that the center hole is too small. So, when the axle is loaded, the axle rubs and pulls the center of the retainer off center. The ends of the bearings should virtually never wear, as they are only there to hold the assembly together and provide end thrust, of which there is almost none. Yet, the roller holes are badly worn, radially, which means the retainer is being forced out radially, probably by the axle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Doleshal on Thursday, September 20, 2018 - 04:13 pm:

Kep, When I replace a bearing or sleeve, its generally beginning to show some sign of wear, and replacing it at my regular maintenance interval is “preventative maintenance”.

In other words: “It isn’t worn out, but its an ideal time to replace it”

I do a regular inspection on these parts and do not wait until one of these parts is “fully worn out” or broken to fix it. If I waited for for the sleeves and bearings to “wear out”. I’m guessing they might last for 30,000 miles or more, but I’d rather do the right thing and “replace before broken” instead of rebuilding the entire axle or missing half of a week-long tour.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Thursday, September 20, 2018 - 05:53 pm:

Some T owners I know are very serious about preventative maintenance, even 1 that replaces the bands every year. Myself I wont my moneys worth and ware things out but do change oil and grease every 3 to 400 miles.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Juhl - Michigan's Thumb on Thursday, September 20, 2018 - 09:52 pm:

Adam - I firmly believe in doing the right thing the first time. If I needed "new" Hyatt roller bearings $90 would not seem unreasonable compared to $20 bearings that might fail and damage the axle, etc. I think many model T owners feel the way I do - they just need to know the facts and the risks of using inferior products.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Doleshal on Thursday, September 20, 2018 - 09:58 pm:

Tim, I feel the same way, but I think we might be the minority...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Thursday, September 20, 2018 - 11:37 pm:

I would give $90.00 ea. for new Hyatt style bearings in a heartbeat. Seems like a no brainer to me. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Friday, September 21, 2018 - 03:42 am:

I'm not saying to wait until the axle fails to replace the bearing sleeves,just saying mine never show wear.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Friday, September 21, 2018 - 12:46 pm:

I would gladly pay $90 for the correct bearing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john pawlowski - NE Pennsylvania on Friday, September 21, 2018 - 01:27 pm:

At some point I will attempt a rear axle rebuild. My question is what are the parts suppliers selling besides these new style bearings? And are they any good. Seems I'd be better off reusing the bearings I have provided they are not destroyed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Friday, September 21, 2018 - 01:34 pm:

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