I jacked up the rear end of my '17 T and pulled the wheels in preparation for removing the rear end. When inspected, I found a number of items were mismatched and I wonder if that is an issue. For info on the different demountable wheel types review this thread http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/822076/898648.html?1537964919

1st: Three of my fixed-lug Demountable rims are Ford 2845B and one is a Hayes 2845B. The two front wheels are the same and have little depressions behind the lug that will accept either Ford or Hayes Rims. The left has a Ford, the right a Hayes. I don't know who made the wheels and have not removed the rims from the front wheels yet.
2nd: The rear wheels both had Ford Rims but were quite different when viewed with the rims removed (Photos 1&2.) The critical diameter is the same but they are obviously from different manufacturers. I suspect the one is heavier than the other and wonder if anyone thinks that will cause problems for me?

The left rear wheel has little slots cut in the rim where the mounting bolt goes thru (yellow arrows on photo 1)and the area of the wheel behind where the rim tab would go has a little depression but with a bump in the middle (Photo 3). I think a Hayes rim would fit that wheel but have yet to try. Can anyone enlighten me as to what I have here?

My opinion:

The felloe that you labeled with "slots" is a Kelsey felloe. A Ford rim with fixed lugs and no lug "feet" that extend back towards the centerline of the rim should work OK. A Hayes rim with lug "feet" will not fit properly.

The wheel behind the one with the Kelsey felloe appears to have a Hayes felloe. Note that it has depressions in the outer edge that give clearance for the Hayes lug "feet" to pass.

Again, my opinion:

Here is a picture of a Hayes rim, showing how the lug "feet" extend in towards the centerline of the rim:





If you try to mount a Hayes rim on your Kelsey felloe, it may appear to fit, but the only contact between the outer edges of the felloe and rim will be at the four lug "feet" instead of the full 360 degree contact that is necessary.


Here is a picture of a Ford rim, showing that its lugs do not have the "feet" that extend in towards the centerline of the rim:





Here is a picture of that same Ford rim mounted on a Kelsey felloe, showing good 360 degree contact between the outer edges of the rim and felloe:





Bottom line - what you have can be made to work if you are careful to only put Ford rims on your Kelsey felloe(s). You can put either Hayes rims or Ford rims on your Hayes felloes.

One other thing - if you are going for absolute originality, it appears from the MTFCA Encyclopedia that demountable rims were not available as an option until 1919:

http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/U-Z.htm#wheels

That said, many folks have retrofitted demountable rims to their older cars for convenience.

I agree with Mark that it is a Kelsey felloe/wheel that has the slots. You will notice that someone added some depressions at the lug bolt area. FORD Motor Company never recommend mounting the Hayes 2845B fixed lug rim or the Ford 2845 fixed lug rim on the Kelsey wheel/felloe. From the previous you mentioned at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/822076/898648.html?1537964919 the Ford Service Bulletin for May 15, 1920 specifically says do NOT swap the rims between Kelsey and Hayes. It does not address the Ford 2845B fixed lug as it was not in production yet. But in the later price list of parts they carried the Kelsey loose lug rims all the way into 1927 price list of parts. Ford was really big into saving money. If he could have used Ford 2845B fixed lug rim in place of the Kelsey loose lug rim I'm sure he would have done so to cut the required parts stock in half for those rims.



That said, we also know that some folks that post on the forum have modified the Kelsey wheel/felloe so the Hayes 2845B fixed lug rim or the Ford 2845B fixed lug rim will seat properly on the inner flange of the felloe. A few of them have said they have not had any problems.

However, I would still suggest you consider obtaining one more felloe and/or wheel for the fixed lug Hayes 2845B rim or Fixed lug Ford 2845B -- but I'm older and I am no longer "bullet proof." That way the rims would fit any of the wheels properly without having to modify the felloe.

Below are some Kelsey 2845 rims and the felloes they fit on -- I had already looked them up so I will add them here. Compare them to what you have:






Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off

Tim and Hap, in your third photo showing where the Hayes rim has been fitted to the Kelsey felloe, that depression is the result of a mis-match of a Hayes rim on a Kelsey felloe. Rather than a deliberate act to create a depreesion for the Hayes lug foot as Hap suggested, it is a wear pattern, evidence the raised portion in the middle which co-incides with a relief in the foot on the lug. What has happened is the load of the car has been taken on just the four feet on the rim and this load has led to the wear on the felloe. The rim has never been wedged onto the felloe for the full circumference as it should.

Tim's second photo shows the different inner rolled edges on the Kelsey, on the left, and the Hayes on the right. It is my belief that the loose lug Kelsey rim is designed to wedge on the outer rolled edge of the Kelsey felloe, and the fixed lug Ford and Hayes rims are designed to wedge on the wider inner rolled edge on the felloe. The felloes themselves have a different inside diameter, leading to problems when ordering spokes to rebuild wheels.

Hap, there have been repeated cross section drawings of the Kelsey loose lug rim/felloe combination. One shows a rim with two ridges rolled in and each engages on the rolled edges of the felloe. I have never seen a rim with two rolled ridges on a Ford wheel.

Hope this clarifies rather than further confuses.
Allan from down under.