Cars destroyed in today's (this year's) California wildfire

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Cars destroyed in today's (this year's) California wildfire
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Kriegel Mishawaka Indiana on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 07:11 am:

Sad looks like a model A Ford and old VW


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas Landers NE Indiana on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 07:30 am:

Sad. Looks like its a hotrod buy the rear wheels.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry & Sharon Miller, Westminster, CO on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 07:45 am:

If a person chooses to live in the mountains, that person must remember: It's NOT "THEIR" land. That land belongs to the mountain lions, bears, deer, elk, wolves, AND forest fires.

Should a person whine about being hungry, when they have the money but chose not to go to the grocery store to buy food?

Choose wisely my friends and be well prepared.

Reality is a harsh teacher, often deadly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Nunn, Bennington NE on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 10:13 am:

Let's not blame the victims. The fire was started by an idiot who built a campfire during high winds.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By george house . . .caldwell county, TX on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 10:28 am:

But I know several people who have beautiful river front homes and collected government flood insurance $$ 6-7 times to rebuild after floods. That fair ?
And that right rear wheel looks to be wire...17” ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 10:55 am:

For those who criticize others about where they live. You who live at the seashore live where high tides and waves can cause destruction. Those who live on the gulf possible hurricanes, those who live in midwest, tornados or floods, those who live in mountains possible fires. And everywhere the possibility of earthquake. Those in northwest volcanos.

So when you point at others, remember that you have 3 fingers pointing back to yourself!!!!!!!!!!

I feel for those who lost property and especially for those who lost loved ones in that fire. For those who haven't had such an experience, it is by the grace of God. Thank Him for your blessings.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill's Auto Works Wakeman, Ohio on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 11:37 am:

SO terrible to see so many of our collectible cars destroyed!

God bless
Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don - Conroe, TX on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 12:28 pm:

That's awful...and heartbreaking I'm sure, to the owner. I could never replace some things if my shop was destroyed (my grandfather's tools, etc).

I've lived in different parts of the US that have different inherent disaster threats. One redeemable thing about living on the Gulf Coast where our main threat is Hurricanes, is that you a person has the time to move things like old cars out of harms way.

With fires and tornados...not so much.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 12:45 pm:

While I'm still waiting to go into town where I can look at pictures on the internet (TV coverage on the channels I can get is nil)I am fairly certain the 1910 Brush on display in the Paradise museum is gone, as I saw pictures last night of buildings on both sides of the museum burning. This disaster is bigger then the Carr fire in Redding a little earlier in the year.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 01:07 pm:

The perils of nature and idiocy of individuals are all around us. Devastation can happen anywhere. We can only plan for as much safety as possible, then hope nothing happens. 'Life' must continue! "Heart-wrenching" has very little to do with those tools in our shops....

We are only temporary guests here.
"Life" is 'Terminal' - Celebrate Living! (and "Happy T-ing!")


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 01:24 pm:

Just had a call from a T friend, a mutual friend of ours who's home was south of Paradise on a long dirt road (about 20 minutes from pavement)lost his house, machine shop, and car collection. He's in a hospital far away having a knee operation, but his family was at the house and they were trapped. Fortunately he has a large field he kept mowed, and they stood in the middle of the field while the fire burned around them and witnessed their world burning down. Probably a half-dozen Ts in various states, an early Dodge, a couple of nice Model As, a very compete machine shop, house full of antiques--I guess it's all just stuff, and the family members survived. I'm certain we will start hearing of a number of deaths as areas become accessible.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don - Conroe, TX on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 01:33 pm:

I don't think there's much one can do to mitigate the risk of fire on a dry California hillside.

However, in the fire-prone areas that I have lived in, we've done all that is possible. This included keeping all fields mowed short, removing all dead brush and ground cover and elminitating any trees or shrubs near the house that can burn, even in a healthy state.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire (La Florida!) on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 02:06 pm:

It's not just weather and assorted natural disasters. How about the problem in the North East a few weeks ago where propane tanks were overfilled by one company. a line from one of my favorite songs goes "God made life a gamble and we're still in the game",nuff said!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 03:50 pm:

My daughter told me this morning that town was loaded with pine trees with narrow roads between them many elderly retired folks caught with no way out.
She has gone through the Santa Rosa hospital fire where she worked and the evacuation of Lake Port where she lives. Tragic-- cars can be replaced but loved ones are a different story.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Denny Seth - Jefferson, Ohio on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 04:00 pm:

My cousin and her husband live in Paradise and my mother is worried sick because she can't get in touch with them. I tried to explain that all communications would be affected but my mother being age 93 still thinks they should call. Praying for everyone involved.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 04:38 pm:

I drove home last night from Camarillo to Simi Valley through Santa Rosa valley. Hills to the south were ablaze with bumper to bumper traffic on the road. I haven't heard if any structures in Santa Rosa valley were damaged, the wind was blowing to the south pretty good. Took me six hours to get home, every road was packed solid.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 04:47 pm:

Norm Kling - Sent you a "PM",......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 05:47 pm:

Sad to see and hear of the losses there. I had a the opportunity to tour through that area last summer, it was/is a beautiful area.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Saylor, Citrus Heights, Ca on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 06:02 pm:

Walt, I was on that tour. I agree that is some beautiful country. I am assuming the Honey Run Covered Bridge is gone.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Copeland - West Melbourne Florida on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 06:18 pm:

There’s no real safe place to live. The north can have ice storms, Mid west has tornadoes, the West has fires, the south has hurricanes, There are risks any place you try to plant roots. When I lived in northern my, I saw two major ice storms, one small tornado, one major micro bursts, three deady blizzards. You just have to deal with the cards that are dealt.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Davis. Tomball Texas on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 06:27 pm:

Sad to see the loss of life! Property and Dreams.
No place is safe any more just watch the news or look out the window. Hindsight is 20/20 when You know better You can do better.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hanlon N.E.Ohio on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 07:10 pm:

I heard they found 5 people inside burned out vehicles, trying to flee.
I believe the northern CA fire.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan McEachern on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 07:18 pm:

Walt and John- yes the bridge is gone- my daughter called me earlier with the news. I'm glad we had a chance to enjoy the area earlier this year. It will certainly be different for many years to come.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Andreasen on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 07:20 pm:

That model A will still be salvageable after the fire. Think about it....the paint is destroyed, but the metal underneath has been annealed if anything. Replace all the burned stuff, especially the wheels and restore it.

I understand that several people were trapped in their cars, trying to escape. They died. Horrible.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 07:42 pm:

I can't say much about the fire itself, other than it sounds like we have another bad one. But when I got up this morning, we had blue sky as far as the eye could see. About noon, the smoke was coming into view. By 2:00, overhead was covered, by 3:30, we could barely see any blue sky at all! The sun was just a red spot in the sky, almost mesmerizing. Which is bad because the directional radiation is still strong enough to damage the eyes even though there is no instant irritation to make one look away.
Some of the worst smoke I have ever seen here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick in Florida on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 09:00 pm:

I totally sympathize with all those who have lost everything to these wildfires. In March of 1987, I had a house fire that destroyed my house and all of my belongings. I was inside at the time and though I was burned badly enough on my arms and face to have to spend two weeks in the burn unit of the hospital, was lucky to make it out alive by avoiding the flames and crawling under the thick smoke until I found the door.

Anyone who has a close and personal encounter with such a fire, swears the fire is a living entity that was born to seek out things to destroy, including you. During these encounters, it is best to get out of its’ way until it dies for lack of things to consume. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Juhl - Michigan's Thumb on Friday, November 09, 2018 - 10:23 pm:

My brother lives near Nevada City, not far from Wayne I suspect. Last year on a visit we traveled thru some of the areas affected now.

Will is right, every area has it's dangers although some more than others.

When I was teaching, we might miss 5 or 6 days a year for snowstorms but that was about it. Where I live in Michigan there is no worry of wildfires, mudslides, hurricanes, storm surge and such. In the 47 years I've lived here, there have been two tornados, each a F1. Even our winters aren't too bad - Ohio usually gets it worse than us. Last winter I only had to plow my driveway twice.

Of historical interest, our wildfire in 1881 was the result of a dry summer and lots of scrap left by the lumbering industry as they stripped the trees from the area. People died, homes were destroyed, scenes like California is seeing now. Our fire was the first time ever that the newly-formed American Red Cross sent disaster relief. The upside was that it cleared a lot of farmland, including a section that my family, newly arrived from Denmark, settled on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Saturday, November 10, 2018 - 02:13 am:

My first old car was a 1929 Buick special coupe. I was able to swap parts with a friend who lives in Paradise. In his garage was the identical match to my 29 coupe. As 95% of the town was destroyed there is a 95% chance his gorgeous Buick is no longer. I have no way of contacting him. I just hope he and his family got out ok.

TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Saturday, November 10, 2018 - 04:41 am:

:-(

I can maybe rebuild the A, but the bug is a challenge for someone else.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Codman on Saturday, November 10, 2018 - 10:05 am:

I follow Don from Conroe TX's advice, I keep the grass around our house mowed, and we are actually purchasing the land just north of our house because it's 30 feet from our house and it's a jungle. I want to clear it for about another 40 feet or so. The county has said that if there is a forest fire, the fire department will try to save houses that are not surrounded with dense brush first.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, November 10, 2018 - 01:50 pm:

Well, a follow-up to my posting, my friend Marty, who lost everything, turns out his high school model A body was at another friend's getting painted. That friend just called me and his house and shop are still standing, along with Marty's A body. Still have other friends who have not been heard from by anyone. I suspect the number of deaths will be much greater than anyone wants to think about. Right now they are saying over 6,500 homes gone.
Also, 50mph north winds are predicted for tonight. I am going to start packing, even though I'm a half-hours drive away from the closest presently burned area.

Oh, and yes, the 1886 Honey Run Covered bridge is now ashes and twisted metal in the river. It was a triple truss bridge one of the only one of it's kind still existing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, November 10, 2018 - 03:40 pm:

More Update, the area just north of us is now under evacuation ORDER, we are packing.
David


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Denny Seth - Jefferson, Ohio on Saturday, November 10, 2018 - 03:43 pm:

Dave wishing you the best and I hope the fire is stopped before it gets to you, I still haven't heard from my cousin who lived in Paradise.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Osterman, Rochester, NY on Saturday, November 10, 2018 - 03:57 pm:

Dave .... such horrible events. When in doubt .. get out. Our prayers are with all of the people going through that mess.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry & Sharon Miller, Westminster, CO on Saturday, November 10, 2018 - 04:59 pm:

Dave,

SOAK everything you can, with as much water as you can, before you have to leave. It's worked before and saved a friends house.

Good Luck,
Terry


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, November 10, 2018 - 06:44 pm:

You and Linda be safe my friend!
Really hazy and smokey here today. Every time I look out at it I think of the two of you and what you are facing. Every breath I take I smell the the particulate matter in the smoke and wonder what wonderful tree it was or who's home, hopes and dreams it came from.
The sadness is beyond words.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Saturday, November 10, 2018 - 07:27 pm:

We hate to see the old cars lost but the loss of life or loved ones is the ultimate loss. We pray for everyone's safety.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joss sanderson on Saturday, November 10, 2018 - 09:31 pm:

Thoughts and prayers to all. Good friend from Paradise evacuated his 93 year old mother who was born there. Hard to imagine losing everything at 93. Truly beyond anything I can imagine.
For those that blamed campers. Careful about accusations. It appears a PG&E line sparked or transformer blew. Same cause for several recent major fires.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Sunday, November 11, 2018 - 10:32 am:

The firemen drag or push collector cars outside if they can.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Sunday, November 11, 2018 - 11:12 am:

I just found out that a cousin of my first cousin (on other side of her family) Lives in Paradise. She has been evacuated to her son's home. That's all I know about it. Her name is Marcella. Please pray for her and her family. I am hoping to hear about whether she lost her home and if all her family got out OK.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Sunday, November 11, 2018 - 11:30 am:

We are still here this morning. The winds came up last night, so we had stars and this morning we have blue sky. This somewhat reassures me that we are east of the fire for now. Being on dial up I cannot access the fire maps.

there is one report of a spot fire at 2 am "south of the powerhouse" Well that's useless info as there are at least 3 powerhouses in the fire area.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Sunday, November 11, 2018 - 11:35 am:

PS as of this morning 6,713 destroyed structures, 260 commercial buildings included. 23 confirmed deaths as of last night.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Denny Seth - Jefferson, Ohio on Sunday, November 11, 2018 - 11:40 am:

I still have not heard if my cousin and her husband are OK or lost everything. They lived in Paradise.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas Landers NE Indiana on Sunday, November 11, 2018 - 11:49 am:

David that is hard to comprehend that kind of destruction. Our prayers for all. As a firefighter its our job to save life and property and when we fail at that we take it very hard. To bring an item out to a family as small as a photo album or a purse means alot to them. We are dealing with one or two structures. I cant imagine something that size and weather conditions.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Sunday, November 11, 2018 - 11:58 am:

NASA posted satellite images. Look at the size of the flames.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Sunday, November 11, 2018 - 12:04 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Sunday, November 11, 2018 - 12:24 pm:

Latest news is that 23 people have lost their lives in the Paradise fire. News says that they were burned to the point of being impossible to identify. Most were in vehicles that were trapped by the fire. I am sorry to hear about all the cars being lost, but this seems trivial in perspective.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Sunday, November 11, 2018 - 01:24 pm:

They are bringing in a portable DNA lab, now I know why. They are asking for relatives of missing persons to submit DNA samples. Over 100 folks still missing, although some of them could just be separated and unable to communicate, cell coverage is spotty or non-existent for many depending on carrier and origination. I just got confirmation on two friends who are OK, whew--they weren't on the missing persons list, BTW.
David


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Dugger on Sunday, November 11, 2018 - 01:36 pm:

David Dewey: Has the cause been yet found to be a camper ?????? I have not heard on 7R news that was the case. One post here said some stupid camper started a camp fire- Set the record straight. As I said 7R new has not said that yet or I have ]not heard such.
David- my Son that lives near Lyme Saddle resort gated area was not burned out but he is not sure if there were home burned in that area, and he did have to leave and has not been back yet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Dugger on Sunday, November 11, 2018 - 01:43 pm:

4th Largest fire in States history- since the big earthquake- in what 1912 or thereabouts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Sunday, November 11, 2018 - 02:34 pm:

Here is part of what my sister wrote about her daughter's house in Malibu:

"Her house did not burn.

"Nicholisa had also cut down dead trees and brush around her house when she bought the property about a year ago.

"The fire burned up to her backyard fence and burned all the large succulent plants in her immediate back yard.

"ALL of her neighbors' homes are gone. "

My take away from this is that it is very important to clear around your house. If any of you live in a fire prone area I would advise a little yard work in the near future.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Sunday, November 11, 2018 - 02:49 pm:

Bill,
No report yet, although it has been reported that PG&E had a power anomaly at the same time the fire apparently started. So far nothing pointing directly at a campfire--the fire got it's name from starting at Camp Canyon.
Wish I could tell you if Lyme Saddle had or has problems, with this NE wind, it's quite likely, but the winds didn't pick up as high as they thought they would and apparently the firefighters made some preventative progress last night.
We had clear skies all night and up to about 10am, now it's smokey like fog here. We are still packed, ready to go, in fact we have to go into town to get some drinking water and then maybe I can use the wi-fi at the theatre and catch up on things. So many conflicting reports: the Paradise Depot survived; the Paradise depot and Magalia depot are gone: The High School Survived, the High School is gone. Unless I see a photo or the authorities claim something has survived or didn't, I can't trust the posted reports by "bystanders".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, November 11, 2018 - 03:08 pm:

https://www.facebook.com/jackie.blom...543582013/?t=8

Turn the volume down when you watch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Sunday, November 11, 2018 - 03:39 pm:

There was an old fella hiding under a dock on a pond, last call was from his cellphone, and hasn’t been seen or heard since.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Sunday, November 11, 2018 - 04:36 pm:

Good news and ? news about my cousin. They were able to take as much as they could in a small trailer drove with fire on both sides of the road and made it to Chico to stay with their son and family. Won't know about their house for 6 days.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Copeland - West Melbourne Florida on Sunday, November 11, 2018 - 05:54 pm:

I cant even imagine the fear those poor people must have faced as the fire barred down on them as they were trapped in there cars and homes, I pray that God took them fast so that they didn't suffer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Sunday, November 11, 2018 - 07:29 pm:

Ed, Page removed, must have been too graphic?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Dugger on Sunday, November 11, 2018 - 08:28 pm:

David Dewey: My Son Eric said the area he lives was o.k.... Talked to him today and hew was in Colusa. So I guess they were some of the lucky ones!!!!!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Sunday, November 11, 2018 - 10:14 pm:

Just heard from one of our organ volunteers and he saw a reporter reporting from his street, which was still standing--so he has a house to go back to--someday--it's going to be a while before they let anyone in.
If he's in Colusa, he's a long ways away from the fire area!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, November 12, 2018 - 01:45 am:

Update, 29 confirmed dead, over 200 still missing.
We are still safe, but ready.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 - 02:36 am:

Today I finally got word that the couple I was worried about made it out safe, but lost everything.
My Niece's house is gone. Deaths are up to 42, with 7,177 destroyed buildings.
We're still packed just in case.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 - 03:23 am:

I was wondering today if earth mound houses would be less likely to suffer damage.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill's Auto Works Wakeman, Ohio on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 - 08:49 am:

I am NOT discounting loss of life when I say this, however it seems like lately the number of classic cars lost has gone up by leaps & bounds. Between these fires & the hurricane that blasted the Florida Panhandle'.

it breaks my heart when I think about all the pets & wild animals that were killed as well. I pray the people that evacuated took their pets with them. Personally if I couldn't take my furry kids with me, they would find me dead with them!

God bless
Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 - 12:59 pm:

In talking with some of the fire fighters yesterday (the public forum was held at "my" theatre, so spent most of the day setting up with them). We talked a bit about the loss of "Stuff" and while we all agreed that it "was just stuff" they also commented that that stuff was often a major part of one's life, if not a family's history; so it isn't "just stuff" but a loss of oneself and of a "family member." I'm guilty of talking to my Model A that I've worked on since 8th grade (and that I used to slide down the front fender as a very small child). I have a small cabinet in our bedroom that used to be in my Grandmother's living room and was built by my Uncle who died when he was 14 years old. So, yes, it's just stuff, but its also part of who we are as a person. When I was packing for evacuation the other night, I patted one of my player pianos to say good-bye. Fortunately, we haven't had to evacuate and barring the return of high winds, we have survived this one--but the next one???
One of the cars lost that I know about is a 1909 Brush; I'm going to ask the museum if maybe I can try to salvage it; I have lots of memories of that one and all the documented history is still here, I think.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George n LakeOzark,Missourah on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 - 01:59 pm:

Somebody went back and took a pic of that Model A.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eckensviller - Thunder Bay, ON on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 - 02:17 pm:

Unfortunately that's a different Model A. Stock wheels on that last one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick in Florida on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 - 04:24 pm:

Anyone who lives in such fire prone areas could prepare for something like this by doing the following: If you don't have a built in swimming pool, buy a large above ground swimming pool and keep it full, buy a high volume submersible 120V water pump, a gasoline powered generator (I have a Honda EU3000is generator that will run for 16 hours on one tank of gas), enough garden hoses to feed as many rainbird sprinklers (mounted on 6' high extension pipes spiked into the ground so they will go higher and farther) as it takes to saturate the entire house and every inch of your property 100 feet from the house, all around. If the word to evacuate comes, you could set everything up and start the water flowing and the sprinklers going and find a safe place for you and your loved ones to wait. Hopefully, the fire will bypass your property, giving you something to come back to. Don't forget to lock your doors and out buildings. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 - 04:34 pm:

Yep, that one is a 30-31, the other one was a '28-'29. Many antique cars lost in this fire. I don't quite recognize the location, but it looks familiar.
Sad, sad, days here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Kiefer - Adams, MN on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 - 04:38 pm:

Jim, I see flaws in your plan. If you leave to early either the swimming pool will go empty or the gas tank on the generator will go empty. If you stay to long you may burn up in your car leaving like what happened to many people. If you stay the heat and the smoke will kill you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eckensviller - Thunder Bay, ON on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 - 05:29 pm:

Jim, it's simpler than that. Often you'll see the houses that survive have a steel or terracotta roof.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Saylor, Citrus Heights, Ca on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 - 05:42 pm:

Metal roof survived but not the building
metal roof

Flames are just too hot.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 - 07:17 pm:

The internet had a picture of a car with the aluminum melted out of it and in puddles on the road. It was a modern car with probably an aluminum engine block. It just illustrates how hot the fire was.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 - 07:24 pm:

The news also said that the fire was moving the distance of 30 foot ball fields in a matter of minutes. A rough calculation equates this to over 60 miles per hour. Hard to outrun that even in a car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mario Brossard on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 - 08:01 pm:

SO sad to see so many of our collectible cars destroyed and houses either. Hope they are able to save most life possible too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 - 09:17 pm:

David Dewey, you have summarized what I have always thought. The bottom line is that is indeed just "stuff," but there is stuff and there is stuff. None can compare to human life, but something I bought a year ago can't compare to the clock that my great-great-grandfather gave to my great-grandparents in 1886 and is now on my mantle. Things like that indeed become part of who we are, and I would mourn their loss. It's all relative, I guess.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kenneth w delong on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 - 09:41 pm:

I think Jim's idea is very good but start a day or two in advance and you need more gas for the honda.I have the same honda and i wish you could add more gas supply like a outboard tank? No need to worry about pumping a swimming pool dry with that rig! I wonder about all that flame retardent and health risk in the future? Bud in flyover country.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick in Florida on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 - 10:36 pm:

in addition to what I suggested, Dean reminded me of something that would alleviate the danger of leaving too late. If you also dug an underground shelter with easy egress, the family would not have too leave the property and could remain to make last minute preparations such as topping off the gas tank of the generator. The underground shelter would be within the perimeter of the sprinkler system and weatherproof remote control video cameras could be installed to allow you to monitor what is going on outside. Underground shelters can be elaborate concrete lined structures or pre-fabricated 8’ diameter corrugated steel culvert material equipped with bedrooms and kitchen. It would be expensive, and may never be needed, but if it was ever needed, it would be totally worth it. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 - 11:03 pm:

What you are not considering is that fires like this us up the ground oxygen and superheats the air; even staying in the swimming pool or a pond does not assure you of survival.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick in Florida on Tuesday, November 13, 2018 - 11:11 pm:

That is why Floridians like me should not offer suggestions to those who are more familiar with the experience of living in fire prone areas. I’m sorry if I offended anyone or was out of line. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 12:37 am:

Jim, my comments were/are not aimed at you, these kind of ideas have been promoted by many, and there are some stories in this fire of folks who did save their homes and survived--but the odds are very much against that. The latest list of newly confirmed deaths were mostly folks found in their homes; the count is now at 48.
When I first moved here a little over 10 years ago, I was a little concerned about wildfire, but now I think about it all the time. Parts of Paradise looked like towns in the valley, open spaces and even flat ground; and yet those areas are devastated.
Jim, if my response sounded demeaning, it wasn't meant to, and my apologies!
Oh, and I see a typo; ". . .fires like this us up. . ." should read; ". . .fires like this USE up. . ."
Many of the responders are saying that this fire is something they've never seen (and hope to never see again).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 12:42 am:

No offense as far as I am concerned Jim P. As I was reading these recent suggestions just now, I was thinking how much some of your suggestions are like ideas I have had over the years. If I could afford it, even on the cheap, I would have a small underground bunker for such possibilities.
Now, I will mention something I have thought about often. Learning about the realities of your surroundings, and understanding how those risks work is something that every man woman and child in the world should be doing. Expecting the "great nanny state" to be there and "protect you" is a fool's exercise.

And understanding risks leads to another thing. Oxygen depletion is a serious and severe risk in wildfires. Any chance is better than no chance. People have survived some of the worst wildfires by hiding under a row boat upside down in a swimming pool (actually happened in the Oakland Hills fire about thirty years ago!). Many others have died in such attempts because the conditions worked against them, and died from lack of oxygen because it was all used up by the flames. Many unpredictable variables can turn that last ditch effort to survive to go either way.

A simple survival bunker should have some sort of oxygen supply, at least in fire prone areas. But that presents other risks, risks that need to be understood and dealt with carefully. Oxygen could be kept in scuba tanks. or even an oxy-acetylene welding oxygen tank (could be your spare backup tank for your welding set). However, oxygen in welding form is fairly pure (though not as pure as medical supply). Whether one uses welding or medical oxygen, anything close to pure oxygen is very dangerous around fire. In small regulated amounts, it could save one's life. Handled incorrectly, it could turn even a small spark into a raging inferno if anything flammable is close by. And breathing too much of it in pure form can cause serious medical problems. Among other things, it was a major cause of blindness in infants over a half century ago (one of my best friends in high school had been blind since weeks of age).

And Jim P, Maybe one day we can discuss best ways to prepare and survive hurricanes? :-) Might be interesting to put a Califunnian's spin on that? :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick in Florida on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 01:09 am:

Thank you guys for your further clarification of you views. I had not thought about oxygen depletion. Would portable oxygen generators address this concern?

Regarding hurricanes, I am all for being prepared. In 2004, there was a small chance that a hurricane would hit Florida. I decided to purchase a Honda EU3000is generator and, while it was very expensive, it turned out to be the best purchase I have ever made. After I bought it, not only did the first hurricane come right over central Florida, where I am, two more hurricanes came directly over my town from different directions within 3 weeks.

For the next 6 weeks, while most of my neighbors suffered, I was the only one in Bartow for a radius of one mile that had power and was able to operate my refrigerator, a micro-wave, a lamp and fan in each room and my television. After one week, the streets were cleared enough for me to take a night time drive around the area and it was eerie. There were no lights whatsoever for a radius of one mile until I turned down my street and my house came into view and was so lit up, I was almost embarrassed.

All I'm saying is the calm times are the times to prepare, but, unfortunately, one somewhat loses the sense of urgency necessary to spend the money and undertake the efforts necessary to make the preparations needed for the bad times.

Take care and God bless.

Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 03:06 am:

"Would portable oxygen generators address this concern?"

I don't know. It is something I have wondered about in recent weeks, for exactly this purpose. They are a fairly new thing (past ten years or so?), and I do not really know how they work. From a couple things I have heard or read (they are also called oxygen "concentrators"), plus a basic understanding of how things in general do work, I suspect that they are basically a filtering device that separates the oxygen from other gasses, and delivers it in "concentrated" form. If that is in fact the case, under depleted oxygen conditions? I suspect they would not help much.
But that is all speculation on my part. Maybe one of our better informed friends on this point can help clear up the idea?

"All I'm saying is the calm times are the times to prepare, but, unfortunately, one somewhat loses the sense of urgency necessary to spend the money and undertake the efforts necessary to make the preparations needed for the bad times."

Jim P, Being a fellow collector of old phonographs and related things, you should appreciate this. Along with my old phonographs, years ago, I collected more than 2000 78 rpm records from very early up into the early '30s. I particularly like some of the Vaudeville type songs, artists, and comedy routines. One of my all-time favorites is a 1920s recording of "The Arkansas Traveler". One of the best parts of that routine is the discussion about fixing the roof, that leads to "Well, why don't you fix it when it is NOT raining?" "Cause, when it don't rain, it don't leak!"

On that note, Good night, and be safe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick in Florida on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 10:24 am:

Great comparison Wayne. I too have a lot of 78’s and cylinders of Vaudeville acts such as Uncle Josh and Sir Harry Lauder. I also love the old ragtime songs. For years I have been looking for an Edison cylinder of Van Epps banjo version of “Maple Leaf Rag” and recently found a mint copy for $150.00 while most cylinders can be had for $5.00. Expensive, but worth it as they rarely come up for sale and when they do, I always lose out by bidding too low. This time I was lucky.

Without casting aspersions on those who do not prepare for the fires, hurricanes, or any emergency, for that matter, it is human nature to put things off until absolutely necessary and then, it is too late. It takes discipline, forethought and a sense of risk in thinking that all the expense and effort may be a waste of money and time. I am no better, while I have a generator, for years, I have sworn that if I make it through this hurricane, I’m going to buy enough 1/2” plywood to make storm shutters with hangers for all my 4’ x 6’ Victorian windows on my two story house, but I never do and now that Hurricane season is over and I have survived another year, I will, most likely not do it this year either.

As the old saying goes, “it is better to have something and not need it than need something and not have it”. One just has to have the motivation and compunction to act on it. Good luck. You all are in our prayers. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Kiefer - Adams, MN on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 11:25 am:

Jim, I hope I didn't upset you by talking against your ideas. I am sure not an expert on the fires. All I need to worry about here in Minnesota is to keep the water lines from freezing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 11:27 am:

In 2003 we had a fire in San Diego county, "Cedar Fire". It started Saturday night about 50 or more miles east of San Diego and by Sunday morning it had already burnt all the way to Miramar which is in north San Diego. When we got up Sunday morning we could see smoke in the distance north of us but the TV reports said it was around Ramona which is about 20 miles as the crow flies and the wind was blowing to the west so we thought we were safe. We went to church and noon when church service was over, the fire was west of us. I had always thought our best escape route in case of fire would be west on I-8 toward San Diego, but the highway was closed. The wind had shifted toward the south and had cut us off. We went home and I thought, "we need to be prepared in case we need to evacuate". So we started loading important documents, pictures and clothes into our car and pickup. We didn't load our T because it would have been something which would slow us down. Around 3:00 the highway patrol came to the door and said we need to evacuate. We went down to town and lined up with others headed east. Around 5:00 it looked as though the fire had died down so we went home and had dinner. Then the power went off and I looked out and saw flames about 1 mile away. This time we left and went east about 5 miles and parked by the side of the road. We could see the flames go over the mountain which is behind our home. We were on the other side of the mountain. WE were thinking that our house and Model T's were lost. The highway patrol told us to move. It was near midnight. We went about 25 miles to an evacuation center and spent 2 nights there. Then were allowed to come home. The fire had burnt to about 100' from our house and garage. We had cleared the brush in that area the summer before. The electricity was off until Friday, but our house was spared. Many others were burned to the ground.

I say this, because all who say we should be prepared, don't realize how quickly a fire can come or grow. Or which way it will travel depends on wind speed or direction which change. So we need a plan with several routes of escape and be ready. But don't take too long to pack. Get out with as much important stuff as you can. Other things are "stuff". Even Model T's can be replaced, but burn scars last forever.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Codman on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 11:40 am:

Tim Eckensviller is right on. If you live in a fire area (as we do) You need a metal or terra-cotta tile roof. It's easy to install a metal roof in place of asphalt shingles, but terra cotta may require expensive structural work. Both are a bit more expensive then Asphalt, OK - Terra-cotta is a lot more expensive, but they last longer. When the bride and I replaced the worn-out asphalt shingle roof that the new (to us) house had with with a metal roof, the homeowner's insurance went down because of the roof. The metal roofs also stand up to wind better then asphalt shingles which is important here in SW Florida hurricane country. Probably over 90% of the houses here that had blue tarps on their roofs after Irma were Asphalt shingled.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick in Florida on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 11:50 am:

Not at all Dean. Your post helped me to realize that there were things I had not thought of and for that, l thank you. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Williams, Hillsboro Oregon on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 12:23 pm:

500 Search and Rescue Volunteers have gathered to search for the 200 people unaccounted for at the Camp Fire


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 01:33 pm:

A side note to the metal roof: My sister-in-law installed a very high end metal roof about 2 years ago. An unanticipated problem is that cell phones won't work very well (if at all) in the house now. I imagine there are devices out there to resolve this issue, but it is something to consider.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 03:30 pm:

Henry,

There are cell phone repeaters. They connect to the cell tower with an antenna which is outside and re broadcast to the cell phone inside the house. This amplifies the signals and works well for inside buildings that have poor cell phone coverage. Google "cell phone repeater".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Kiefer - Adams, MN on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 03:37 pm:

I put a repeater in my body shop, works great. At the time they were $400 bucks, I'm sure they are cheaper now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill's Auto Works Wakeman, Ohio on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 05:01 pm:

I will be buying one probably over the holidays!

I am way out in the country & service is just average out here, but since I spent the money & put a green metal roof on the house & shop...The phone no longer works in the shop! Basically I created a "Ferriday Cage" The only reason I can think that the phone still works in the house is because it is vinyl sided!

God Bless
Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By brian lawrence on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 08:34 pm:

Terrible bad situation. I too lost a home to a fire. And yes disasters happen no matter where one lives. I spoke with a co worker today who just doesn't like California for some reason and has no empathy. I do. God bless and stay safe..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 08:45 pm:

Brian,

Sorry to hear about your loss. You have MY empathy. At least here in North Carolina it is only hurricanes.

Neil


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By brian lawrence on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 09:34 pm:

Neil, no i live in Wisconsin. But no matter what I feel bad for the people in California because I know what that kind of loss is like.

Brian


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill's Auto Works Wakeman, Ohio on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 09:40 pm:

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/shop-visit-altered-wheelbases-and-indy-cars-in-t he-cerveny-collection/

It has been confirmed to me that this great collection is a total loss!

Very Sad!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rodger Erickson on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 11:25 pm:

Most, but not all, of the news is bad:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/14/us/california-wildfire-antique-car.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 11:49 pm:

Latest figures, 10,321 structures destroyed, of which 8,650 are single family dwellings.52,000 people under evacuation orders (YES, 52K!!), 200 missing people have been found, but 130 still missing and confirmed deaths is now 56. They are now publicly admitting that that figure is likely to exceed 100.
Smoke in the area is horrendous. We are one week away from a predicted light rain.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick in Florida on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 12:36 am:

Do they call it the “camp fire” because it was caused by a camp fire? If so, do the authorities know who’s carelessness was responsible for this devastation? I wonder what punishment would be fitting for the person or persons responsible for so many deaths and so much loss. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 12:45 am:

Jim,
Current speculation is that it was caused by Pacific Gas & Electric (AKA P.G.& E.) equipment. I heard on the news they have already informed the Securities and Exchange Commission that if it is determined it was caused by PG&E equipment they believe insurance coverage will be inadequate to cover the liability.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 01:33 am:

Jim, the fire started in an area known as "Camp Creek" thus the name, Camp wildfire.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 01:57 am:

First reports when the fire began as saying it was caused by campers losing control of a campfire. Reports claimed it was known who it was. However, that is NOT why it was called the "Camp Fire". that is in fact the name of the area where it began, hence, the naming of it.
About the second day of this fire, fingers started pointing at PG&E. The state has been targeting them for several years for many fires and other transgressions. Now, let me be clear about this. I have had personal and professional connections with PG&E for most of my life. My dad was an electrical engineer, and occasionally consulted for PG&E when they got into problems beyond their own engineers expertise. He also mediated disputes from time to time for them. And when he told PG&E to "pay up", they never argued with him.
While I do believe that PG&E is responsible for some of the problems they are blamed for? I also believe that they are being scapegoated for political purposes for a lot of other things. I do not like what I see.

I think we need to discuss some conversations I listened in on more than fifty years ago. Conversations that predicted severe firestorms.

Maybe another day.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 02:56 am:


Here's a satellite view that includes the area of the Camp Fire. The red marker is at Camp Creek, where it started. The creek runs into the Feather River, which is beside CAL 70, the highway going up from the bottom middle of the map toward the northeast. At the bottom left is Chico, and Paradise is about fifteen miles east of that.


This shows the fire area. You can find some of the place names on the satellite view to see how much it covers. When I camped at Butte Meadows in 1958 the foothills and the national forest were very sparsely populated. Over the past sixty years since, beginning in the sixties, a great many people have moved into the area and the population has grown tremendously. Folks like to live among the trees.

(The red markers in the second map indicate road closures.)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 09:06 am:

Another bad thing is that the area drains into the Feather River upstream of Oroville dam.That dam is where they had a problem last winter when the spillway was eroded by overflows of high water. The lake might get filled with silt from the mud which flows downstream after the fire.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Codman on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 10:45 am:

Neil Kaminar is correct about cell phones and metal roofs. Where we live in SW Florida the cell phone signal is awful anyhoo - I have never had more then two bars here, but going outside is normally not a problem with our great weather here. Digging an underground shelter is not a real option here due to the water table. I suppose that it would be possible to build an above ground fireproof shelter, but it would be expensive.
In our case, we have a well and a whole-house 22K generator, so keeping sprinklers running is not a problem. We also have a 32,000 gallon swimming pool as a backup H20 supply.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 05:40 pm:

This is awful, just awful. The loss of homes, property and life!!! Thoughts and prayers to all. I wish I were closer so I could help in some way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Friday, November 16, 2018 - 12:14 am:

It just seems to get worse; Structures destroyed 1,862 Burned area 149,000acres, 40%D Contained; 63 documented remains found, over 300 missing persons reports.
Marty, don't know what you could do if you lived closer; it's overwhelming.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Lay,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Lancaster Ca. on Friday, November 16, 2018 - 12:36 am:

Unfortunately the whole western U S has seen very dry conditions the last 8 or so years. In our area we would get snow every 4 or 5 years but the last time we saw snow was 9 years ago. The winters have become very mild with very little rain. It is what it is but it seems these fires will continue to get worse.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Friday, November 16, 2018 - 02:08 am:

Worse news, the missing list is now 613.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Friday, November 16, 2018 - 07:32 am:

CBS has published a list of organizations that accept donations to help the victims.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/california-fires-camp-woolsey-containment-evacuatio ns-death-toll-how-to-help-victims-today-2018-11-14/

This thread started out as news about the loss of antique cars. The news about the loss of cars is important but I am glad that the tread has expanded to include the human side of the fire.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Friday, November 16, 2018 - 12:48 pm:

What I haven't mentioned yet, mostly because it just hit me this morning, is the widespread area that is being effected by the smoke. The smoke is very bad, and contains hazardous stuff too. All the schools in Butte County are closed because of the air, many schools in Yuba and Sutter counties too, and even UC Davis is closed, as are some schools in Sacramento. In fact the Sacramento Radio Station I listen to in the morning is recommending businesses close due to the bad air. Yesterday I wore a filter mask most all of the day; downtown Oroville is like a heavy fog, but it's smoke.
There is a chance of rain next week that might clear the air, but also cause all sorts of other problems, erosion, evacuees staying in tents or under blankets will be wet.
When I think of the "planning" agencies go through for crises, like an earthquake, this event makes me quite aware that we are not equipped to effectively deal with large scale disasters.
Fire grew very little last night, but winds are expected Saturday. 45% contained this morning.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Friday, November 16, 2018 - 01:22 pm:

My daughter is a NP in lake Port said schools were closed because of smoke. Lake port is a fair distance from the fire center from the maps on the net.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Friday, November 16, 2018 - 01:57 pm:

Forgive me for a contrary thought, but what is the advantage of closing the schools? Those kids would be home where the air quality is the same and many of them unsupervised because Mom and Dad are at work. Certainly postpone or cancel all outdoor activities, but I bet many of those children would be better off at school than they are with school closed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Friday, November 16, 2018 - 02:07 pm:

Henry, please be careful. You're making sense, which is largely frowned on these days.... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dallas Landers NE Indiana on Friday, November 16, 2018 - 02:37 pm:

A guy at the resturaunt for breakfast said " those poor insurance companies". The loss of life is the most tragic as we all know. The rest is material things. The insurance companies should do alright. I have been paying for over 30 years as many others with no claims but I doubt that counts for much. Im sure they will find a way out or to pay very little. The consumer will end up paying higher prices in the end. If California is as broke as many say, who is paying the 5000 plus firefighters and other personel? I know volunteers make up alot. We have had search dogs for years and all time and cost was free. Just thinking out loud and wondering. One of our firemen has family in Paridise. They barley made it out. Someone crashed their car racing out of a driveway and knocked them in the ditch. They had to run on foot and leave it all. Flames everywhere. They were lucky one to be alive. Our prayers to all involved.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Kiefer - Adams, MN on Friday, November 16, 2018 - 03:13 pm:

Every one who carries insurance thru out the United States pays on disasters like this. It is thru the companies Reinsurance Program. Each company kicks in there share of the market otherwise the insurance companies in the disaster area would go broke.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Friday, November 16, 2018 - 03:23 pm:

Got some pictures from a daughter in Roseville, taken outside their home. The sun is only a 'dim dot' through the smoke. Yes,schools are closed. With an asthmatic grand-daughter, at least they have an air-exchanger filtration system. We've been Blessed.

"Happy T-ing!", just not where they're located....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick in Florida on Friday, November 16, 2018 - 05:11 pm:

When I had my house fire in 1987, I was insured by State Farm Insurance. After the fire, while I was in the hospital, the insurance adjuster for State Farm went by the house and did a appraisal of the loss and called me with a settlement amount of $50,000.00 and said I needed to accept it right away. I thought it was pretty callous of them to try and lowball me while I was vulnerable in the hospital.

A day later, my parents brought me my mail and in it was an advertisement for a “Public Adjuster”. This is an adjuster who works for and negotiates for the victim like a lawyer, for a percentage of the settlement, so he has an incentive to get as much as he can. I immediately called him and he came and met me at the hospital. We discussed it and I hired him for a fee of 6% of the settlement.

Long story short, he took pictures and did an appraisal and submitted it to State Farm. After a very short period of negotiations State Farm agreed upon a settlement of $150,000.00.

Insurance companies are very selfish and capitalize on the victim being in a weak, vulnerable position, especially if he is hurt and needs money very bad in order to rebuild, so the insurance companies are in a more powerful position to offer much less than the value the victim is entitled to.

If you ever find yourself in such a position, whereby you are at the mercy of an insurance company, please at least look into hiring a “Public Adjuster” to negotiate on your behalf. In my case, the Public Adjuster had many years as an insurance adjuster and knew all the tricks. That is why they accepted the first settlement proposal. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Friday, November 16, 2018 - 07:49 pm:

I got a broken spine when I was struck by a Jeep while crossing the street. The day after the accident the driver's insurance company called and magnanimously offered to pay half of my medical bills.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Friday, November 16, 2018 - 08:14 pm:

Insurance companies are corporations. They have only one interest, which is paying dividends to shareholders. Anyone who thinks otherwise or believes the "we're here for you" bologna is foolish.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick in Florida on Friday, November 16, 2018 - 10:14 pm:

Of course, but that does not mean you have to accept their unfair take it or leave it offer. You can accept that they are corporations that look out for only their interests, but also know that there are ways for you to play their game on your terms and get a fair settlement. They bank on most people not knowing that and acting on it. This is something that should be communicated to all of the desperate victims in California that feel they have nowhere to turn and must accept the first offer they are presented with. Chances are, the first offer is probably 1/3 of what the actual offer should be. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Friday, November 16, 2018 - 10:30 pm:

Jim,
You are absolutely correct. I did not mean to imply you should just let yourself be rolled over. Quite the contrary, knowing that the rhetoric is slanted, people need to get themselves informed and fight for what is rightfully theirs.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, November 17, 2018 - 01:54 am:

Latest numbers, now 1001 missing, 12,256 structures destroyed (9,700 single family homes, 336 commercial structures); 71 dead.
Gusty winds tomorrow, rain about Wednesday. Butte County Schools won't reopen until Dec 3.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick in Florida on Monday, November 19, 2018 - 02:07 pm:

Update: 11/19/18. Heard on Fox News a few minutes ago that 80 are confirmed dead and 1,000 are still missing. They fully expect the number of dead to go up substantially as the search progresses. Said rains are expected soon which is good and bad. The good is that the rains will help put out any remaining fires and hot spots and wet down the areas to quell the emergence of new fires. The bad is that the rains will wash away the ash of victims and evidence that help identify the missing, so the search and rescue teams are ramping up their efforts to find victims before the rains come in a few days. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, November 19, 2018 - 03:08 pm:

As the fire is winding down, some numbers are going down and some are going up. Just saw a picture of the remains of a garage that once held a large toy train collection, Nothing left but the remains of metal shelving.
So, statistic as of this morning: 66% contained, 12, 462 structures destroyed of which 11,713 were single family homes, 277 multi family buildings (apartments), 472 commercial buildings. Add in out buildings, etc. 3,388 and total buildings lost 15,850. firs is now at 151,000 acres. Confirmed deaths here at 77, plus 3 at the Malibu fire, that's where the 80 number is. However, MANY more to be found. Missing persons went down by some 250. Hopefully that number will go way down.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick in Florida on Monday, November 19, 2018 - 06:40 pm:

Thank you David for your many updates during this tragic thread. I’m sure you have been personally touched by this tragedy and are possibly missing family and loved ones of your own, or know victims who have lost everything. Our prayers and thoughts are with you and everyone who is affected by this. In spite of the circumstances, try and have a happy Thanksgiving. Sincerely, Jim Patrick.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, November 19, 2018 - 06:48 pm:

Thanks Jim, yes, family and friends who have lost everything, and piano tuning customers too.
Just got word that the Berry Creek area evacuation has been lowered to warning level. The roadblock at our turn off should be gone when I go home--this also means we are in MUCH less danger--as long as there isn't another fire. . . .
Going to Dunsmuir to the family resort for T-day, in the rain if the forecasts hold--and hopefully NOT snow!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 - 01:50 am:

Tonight's statistics are mostly unchanged, 70% contained, Berry Creek area now just Warning, so the roadblock near my house is gone. Missing people has dropped to a little over 600. Reported deaths here are now at 79. I say "reported" as I met an Search & Rescue guy in charge of a group with cadaver dogs and he said they found multiple remains today. The remains search has ramped up as rain is due in Wednesday, which will was away scents and ashes.
The rain also may bring on mud slides.
I hope the guy with the '15 T that survived has a chance to go retrieve it before it's rained on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick in Florida on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 - 10:08 am:

Thank you. Glad to the fire is closer to the end than to the beginning. Good thought on the ‘15. If he is close by, maybe you can call him or just go over and see if he needs help or a place to store it. If he lost everything he would have no place to keep it and he is no doubt preoccupied with other things and would welcome the help. Especially from someone who was familiar with T’s and could drive it to a place of safety for him. In helping to keep this T safe, you would be doing everyone a favor. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick in Florida on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 - 10:13 am:

PS...but with roads obliterated, closed or blocked, burned fallen trees across the roads and entire areas closed to prevent looters, it might be easier said than done. Good luck. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 - 10:25 am:

I have to admit,I would really dread dealing with insurance companys in this case.In the case of my wreck, when negoitations finally started 3.5 years after towards a settlememt,my attorney started at 1 million, their attorney started at 10,000. So whatever you think your possessions are worth,or you life is worth, that should indicate what it is worth to them!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Wednesday, November 21, 2018 - 02:12 am:

Time for my daily update, I'm heading to Dunsmuir for Thanksgiving, so I might not update on the next few days; depends on internet access and how busy I am with family.
Rain is due tomorrow, which will make the remains finding difficult, if not impossible. While some unaccounted folks have been found reducing some of the numbers, more folks are added too, so tonight 870 folks are unaccounted for. 81 confirmed remains have been found, the fire has burned 152,250 acres. 12,637 single family residences destroyed, 310 multi-family ones, and 483 commercial buildings. They also mention 3,718 "other, minor structures" (probably garages with collector's cars--like one friend's '32 Ford, totaled, or toy train collections, or the Gold Nugget museum buildings, totaled. The loss of things though, pales with the loss of life.
Some areas are being repopulated, but much is still off limits. The schools are closed until at least Dec 3, but I've been informed that because of the toxic smoke that the area has suffered, the schools have to be professionally cleaned before students can return. And there are over 5,000 students with no school to return to (That's the number begin expressed, but it seems high to me--but what do I know?).
In spite of all the disaster planning the government goes through, we just aren't prepared for this.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, November 21, 2018 - 04:26 am:

Enjoy the holiday, and the break from your area's distress.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick in Florida on Wednesday, November 21, 2018 - 12:10 pm:

Look around. Can you imagine your entire town and everything you own, completely destroyed by fire and many of your friends, neighbors and loved ones missing and feared dead? This is what happened in a California town called Paradise. The fear and last moments and thoughts of victims as the fire caught up to them as they ran can only be imagined in our worst nightmares. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Thursday, November 22, 2018 - 04:31 pm:

Well, Happy Thanksgiving Morning.
Here's the latest info: 90% contained, but lines holding.Area burned: 153,336 acres. Structures destroyed: 18,652; of these 13,631 were single family dwellings, 275 multiple family, 514 commercial structures (one structure could contain several businesses), The remaining 4,232 were "minor structures." There's also 472 damaged homes and 105 damaged commercial buildings. The confirmed death toll is now 83, but only 563 a missing now, a drop in one day of 307 people.
So that's it for now, back to getting dinner ready!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Sunday, November 25, 2018 - 12:18 am:

Saturday night, here's the latest, some numbers have not changed, size is still the same. Containment is now 98%, only areas that are inaccessible are not contained. Structures are up a bit 13,672 single family dwellings, 282 multi-family dwellings destroyed. The damaged number went down to 465, the other numbers appear unchanged except known deaths which is now 87.
Everyone in this area is reeling from the damage and destruction; the schools are trying to re-open to give the students some "normalcy" ; Butte College is re-opening to allow them to finish the semester--there's only 2 weeks left in it.
The annual Oroville community band and chorus Christmas concert is canceled (the choir director was from Paradise) so ti fill in the State Theatre, where I volunteer so much is putting on a free showing of "It's a Wonderful Life" with Christmas song sing-a-long featuring the Mighty Wurlitzer Organ on Dec 1, and Dec 8 we will have a free reading of "Night Before Christmas & The Nutcracker" for the kids. That night is the annual "Light Parade." We are trying to keep our lives going.
I realize this thread has wandered far from the original posting, but I figured you all would want to know what is happening here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Sunday, November 25, 2018 - 12:48 am:

Thank you David D! I check for your updates a couple times per day. As well as any other comments.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nevada Bob Middleton on Sunday, November 25, 2018 - 12:58 am:

Last time i was in this area i remember seeing all those large propane tanks this also contributed to the fire heat and speed im sure.
I dont one could ever prepare for everything


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Sunday, December 02, 2018 - 02:28 am:

Well, news here has gone quiet; the recent rainstorm hampered recovery efforts. The focus now is on housing all those displaced folks. On TV the "Tele-Lawyers" are advertising that they will get you money from PG&E. I'm not certain how I feel about that, but that's not why I'm posting.
The Good news is the confirmed death toll is still at 88 with the majority of those identified. The really good news is the missing people count dropped dramatically and is now at 25. This seems to indicate the maximum number of possible deaths is 113, much lower than I was afraid it would be.
The amount of devastation is starting to set in; over half the people I personally know from Paradise do not plan on going back; that's a small percentage of evacuees, so what I'm hearing may not reflect what the majority of people will do.
On of the side effects I'm personally finding is our Organ Technician for the State Theatre Wurlitzer restoration can't get a motel room here, so he's not up working on the organ--considering how busy the theatre schedule is for December, and complicated by special events there, this won't really set us behind. Come January, though, we'll want to go "full tilt" on the project, so I hope lodging will be more normal by then.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Sunday, December 02, 2018 - 02:45 am:

I talked to a friend a couple days ago who told me that it is impacting the real estate market around Bozeman, Montana. People are getting total loss checks from the insurance company and looking to move someplace where they can buy a house and start over outside of California.

Rumor has it that a 20 acre place with a house sold for $800,000 almost as soon as it went on the market the other day. May or may not be fire money but that's what they think it is.

A real estate lady told me this morning she has had some calls but hasn't sold anything yet. Our weather isn't as nice as Bozeman or Boise. We already have a lot of Californians here, you can't get a plane ticket from here to LA on Sunday night unless you have one booked long in advance and you can't get one to come from LA to here on Thursday night or Friday. We also have lots of people that live here in the summer and California or Arizona or some tropical isle in the winter. Many of the neighbors near my ranch will be packing up right after Christmas and heading out. It is miserable here in January and February.

Boise, Idaho is also seeing an influx of Californians coming to look for property.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Sunday, December 02, 2018 - 01:21 pm:

Y'all better put up border crossings to keep them Califunny folks out! Most of the folks up here are really Jeffersonians, so we might not be too bad, but you get those folks from down south, like LA and Oh Bother!
It will be interesting to see what happens--I don't think there has been an equal to this level of destruction in modern times. How do you come back to a town the basically isn't there anymore? Most of the area is still closed off, even highway 70, mostly to the south and east of the fire, is still closed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Sunday, December 02, 2018 - 03:26 pm:

How to return to a town that isn't there? For me that's logical. Towns pursue me, I try to evade them, but humans spread across the earth like a disease.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Matthiesen, Madera California, USA on Sunday, December 02, 2018 - 07:02 pm:

Stan Howe: My 28 year old daughter lives in Boise Id and her rent went up 20% this year due to all the demand from people leaving California. I looked into selling my Madera Ca. property and buying a house in Boise and moving, but I would have to own my Madera property free and clear in order to have enough $$ because of all the California money moving to Boise. I have little hope that Califunny won't get more Califunny with its current state of politics.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Van Maanen on Sunday, December 02, 2018 - 10:18 pm:

Guys, there are very few who now live in the town they were born in. I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area, at that time in the late 50's the cry was all of those easterners moving into California. I have not lived in California since 1979 but at that time the population boom was due to others moving in from other states. We all want a place that we can call home, I for one have nothing but compassion for those who lost everything. It is not their fault that their loss was due to a fire any more than somebody who lives in a twister area is at fault because the twister hit them. So lets just support anyway we can, the Red Cross is taking donations and we can volunteer to help with the cleanup once the first responders have things stabilized, both red cross and Samaritans purse are open for sign ups.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Sunday, December 02, 2018 - 10:48 pm:

After cyclone Tracy absolutely flattened Darwin on Christmas eve in 1976, the building codes were completely re-written to make any building as cyclone proof as possible. With a clean slate to work on, Darwin is now a much safer place to live.

It would make sense to develop a building code to best cope with fires in the same way. Paradise could be the start of something of benefit to many in the future.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick in Florida on Monday, December 03, 2018 - 10:14 am:

I hope the refugees of Paradise go back to their properties and rebuild. Though the land may be bare, it is still land and they own it. It would be ashame if no one came back and they allowed the insurance companies to keep all the money they collected from all the people of Paradise over the decades during the good times. It is a their responsibility to step up and help during the bad times. It’s their job. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kenneth w delong on Monday, December 03, 2018 - 10:49 am:

Here in fly over country all i have are questions? I have heard because of the risk and expense of fire insurance do many have or had it? If so is it total replacement or other? With no infastructure in place and now the risk of mudslides is it wise? Is this a time for a re think as to how Paradise and if it should be rebuilt? Ten bazillion people grouped togather on top of a hill what could go wrong? By the same token after the next hurrican/storm surge do we rush to rebuild below sea level? History is great only if we learn from it! Bud.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Monday, December 03, 2018 - 10:53 am:

Jim,
It would seem to me that the insurance companies are required to pay on the insured losses whether the policy holder rebuilds or not. If there's a mortgage it will be satisfied first then the balance to the owner or they can rebuild and pick up where they left off. In properties with no mortgage the insurance policy must pay off the owner who decides to rebuild or not. The folks who had no insurance are the ones with a problem (obviously aside from those who were injured or killed).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Monday, December 03, 2018 - 10:57 am:

Bud,
You make a good point as to infrastructure. Unfortunately, as George Bernard Shaw once said, "History teaches us that we don't learn from history."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Denny Seth - Jefferson, Ohio on Monday, December 03, 2018 - 11:06 am:

Well they rebuilt New Orleans after the gulf tried to take back what man had stolen from her. That city is below sea level so why not rebuild on a mountain top?

My cousin's home may be one of the 10% of homes left standing in Paradise. The last word we had from them is that they were not allowed back in to their neighborhood yet but the first responders informed them that they believe their home is still there but with heat and smoke damage.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Monday, December 03, 2018 - 11:34 am:

For a few years insurance companies have not been writing new fire policies here (Northern California fire area). Now you see why. I suspect that an inability to purchase insurance will block most rebuilding efforts.

I have read that in Chico (where most of the Paradise and Magalia refugees have gone) all available housing on the market has been sold and all rentals have been occupied.

Lots of folks are living in tents in places like Wallmart lots. We just had a week of heavy rains (the fires are out, yay!) and it now is freezing each night. I am thankful I'm not living in a tent.

TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, December 03, 2018 - 11:41 am:

Concerning insurance. Mortgage companies will not loan on your property unless you have enough insurance to pay off the mortgage if the house burns. Your insurance rate is based on the risk, so people who live in high risk areas pay more for insurance. Some companies will not insure high risk homes. Usually a mortgage provider will provide a list of insurance companies who will insure high risk.
There are several types of insurance. One will cover the cost of the mortgage. Others will cover the cost of purchase price of the house, but the best ones will cover replacement value which could be much higher than the actual price paid for the house. Anyway, if you have a policy, keep it because you might find yourself in a situation where you can't find a company to insure you.
Every one has a risk of some sort. Fire, tornado, flood, earthquake, hurricane or other. The people of Paradise, if they decide to rebuild, should keep the burnt out area around the city clear of brush and leave more space between trees and trim off the lower tree branches. Of course, the appeal of the town was the woodsy location, so it might not be popular to keep the surrounding area clear, but much safer.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Monday, December 03, 2018 - 11:54 am:

In the building business for about fifty years I have seen many over priced lots bought by un knowing folks because of a low price or location.
Our area I expect is going to be one of the next to experience a New Orleans or California type disaster the reason will be homes built on lots that should never have been done. It will start with an earth quake causing a tsunami.
Its interesting that all the new and many outlets are built on lots well over ocean current high water------look at the Alaska change after building requirements were tougher.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick in Florida on Monday, December 03, 2018 - 12:18 pm:

Fortunately, when my house burned in 1987, I had all my files stored in a fireproof safe, so I had receipts for all of my belongings that were destroyed as well as my mortgage and all the necessary papers that the insurance company required to settle the claim. As I mentioned above, State Farm offered me just $50,000.00 while I was laid up in the hospital and I had to get a public adjuster to negotiate on my behalf while my burns healed. Thank goodness all my files survived or I would have been out of luck on the personal items that were destroyed and the house was worth more than $50,000.00. Just as the insurance company did not assist me in my hour of need and were only out to gouge me, I seriously doubt that the insured fire victims will see benevolent caring insurance companies wanting to do the right thing on behalf of their clients who lived up to their end of the bargain. If anything, the insurance companies see it as an opportunity to either make money at the expense of the victims or reduce their losses, for anything they can get away with not paying, is money in their pockets. Jim Patrick,


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, December 03, 2018 - 04:10 pm:

Here's a harrowing story of surviving the Paradise fire--it's compelling enough that I think I'll start a new OT tread with it.
https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-paradise-survivors-20181202-htmlsto ry.html


Add a Message


This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Username:  
Password:

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration