Robbery at gunpoint???

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Robbery at gunpoint???
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lenney Glenn on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 08:57 pm:

When I buy a model t I travel with cash for payment. In view of the "civil forfeiture" law, what do you folks think would be the best way to handle a deal when the seller wants cash only? I have become afraid to carry cash because of the possibility of loosing it to these highway robbers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 09:12 pm:

One solution could be to have the seller simply accompany you to your bank, withdraw and give him the cash there. If you're doing business out of your home area, open an account in a bank that has branches all over, travel with a cashier's check from that bank payable to yourself, then use a branch bank wherever you are.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hanlon N.E.Ohio on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 09:25 pm:

My personal preference, I have a 45 on me or a 38 or a 357...
I have a carry permit, and that's my choice, but it's not for everyone.
I would consider a small safe bolted in my trunk or somewhere.
You could also meet at a police station and inform them in advance of your transaction.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lenney Glenn on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 09:49 pm:

I live in the mountains of North Carolina and have bought model t's in South Dakota, Nebraska, Arizona, Texas, California. I really don't want to go "bank hopping" in strange cities. Almost all other methods of payment involve just that. I think it is a sad day when our law officials have become robbers at gunpoint.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lenney Glenn on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 09:57 pm:

Dave, I am talking about the police confiscating your cash while on the road to pick up your newly purchased car. They can and do this under the civil forfeiture law. It is next to impossible to recover your money.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hanlon N.E.Ohio on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 10:13 pm:

Oh I get it...
What about locked in a strongbox in the trunk ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham, Blackfoot, Idaho on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 10:25 pm:

Lenney, my understanding is that "civil forfeiture" allows law enforcement to seize assets connected with the commission of a crime without necessarily charging the person in possession with a crime. How does this apply to packing some cash to buy a Model T ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Chaffin......Corona, CA on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 10:31 pm:

Lenney,

I don't know where you live. I have never heard of any law enforcement officer taking money without probable cause to show it was connected to a criminal act. If you are not convicted of said crime, the cash must be returned under the law. Even in drug cases, asset forfeiture in California does not take effect unless there is cash in excess of $10,000.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Peterson College Place, WA on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 10:45 pm:

Cannot happen? I would recommend mend skirting around Missouri, my son that lives there there tells me this is happening there!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dale Peterson College Place, WA on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 10:46 pm:

Cannot happen? I would recommend skirting around Missouri, my son that lives there tells me this is happening there!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe Konarowski on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 10:55 pm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJd4Q4u5cqU


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 10:56 pm:

No problem in WY. This was banned by statute last year.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rod Barrett - Anderson, IN on Wednesday, November 14, 2018 - 11:48 pm:

https://youtu.be/3kEpZWGgJks

John Oliver on Civil Forfeiture. Never carry cash! The cops are the real bad guys.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 12:09 am:

Forget carrying cash long distances.
All it does is get you in trouble.

Instead carry something that can easily be converted to cash when you get to your destination.

Weed or pills are most likely the easiest to convert to cash, especially if the final location is near a college, and you might consider a firearm if it is near a big city.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard H.Miller on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 01:36 am:

I can't believe what I am reading...suggesting someone carry drugs or a firearm to unload or sell for quick cash. If you think carrying a large amount of cash will get you in trouble, imagine what a drug charge will do. Police do not arbitrarily seize anyone cash, and to even suggest that is rediculous. Large amounts of cash are only seized if it is believed to be remuneration for sale of something illegal. Civil fortieture laws are separate from criminal charges. One could be found not guilty of crime and still lose cash from civil fortieture. Civil fortieture is not limited to cash either personal and or real property can be seized if by a preponderance of evidence it is believed the property was purchased with proceeds earned by illegal transaction. There is a lot more to it but what I just explained is the info in a nut shell....and to file an appeal to seizure a 10% cash deposit must be made to court usually a minimum of $250.00
If you are doing nothing wrong and are carrying that amount of cash, generally speaking you have nothing to worry about. Police...highway robbers...that is absurd.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Strickling on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 05:59 am:

I think HOPE Fred was kidding


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Humphrey on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 07:13 am:

Just to say, I always get a bank draft/money order and I can always cash it at any bank in the area I am going. And it is a single sheet of paper.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 07:42 am:

I hope Rod is kidding! My son is a police officer and I don't appreciate Rod's characterization of police officers. Fact of the matter is that even if he knew you thought that, he would still do whatever it took to save your sorry ass!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill's Auto Works Wakeman, Ohio on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 08:19 am:

Richard A Miller,

Fred was just kidding! However NOBODY was kidding about cops taking your cash & you never get it back. It happens everyday! NEVER allow them to search your vehicle unless they have a warrant. They must have probable cause to get a warrant, but that is easily lied about. It happens all the time. The only places where it CANNOT be done are states that specifically has created a statute banning it, as posted above in Wyoming.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim R. Wynn on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 08:22 am:

My brother is a retired police officer. He has told me on several occasions that more than 90% of US $20 bills, when tested will show traces of a white powdery substance. If I were purchasing a high value article, I believe that I would get a major bank to handle the transfer of cash at the bank. Also, remember that bank deposits greater than $10,000 are under greater scrutiny by bank, law and IRS officials.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Manuel, Lafayette, La. on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 08:39 am:

A couple of Vietnamese guys were driving through Duson, a little town a few miles west of here, and were carrying something like 30 grand in cash to buy a boat. They were stopped for a minor violation and the cops searched their car. When they found the money they planted drugs, arrested the men and took the cash. They were ultimately able to prove their case and got their money back but it cost them plenty. It absolutely does happen.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Curtis Fesler on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 08:42 am:

Either meet at a bank or police station. The police are not going to take your money unless you are a dope dealer. If you feel insecure about it call ahead to the police department and tell them what you are about to do.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Nunn, Bennington NE on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 08:46 am:

My bank has a new money transfer option which I have not used yet. I can have them send money from my accounts to anyone I choose. They send an email or text to the recipient with a special code. The recipient uses this code and their bank information to receive the money. I would have no access to their bank information and they have none to mine. All I need is my phone app (and money, of course).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry & Sharon Miller, Westminster, CO on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 08:56 am:

While there are MANY Great police officers, there are just as many or more bad cops with the attitudes to match. Living in Colorado with legalized weed, the surrounding states have taken up "watch" to protect "their" states. Read profiling here. What standards they are using, I do not know but if they have the slightest inkling of drug involvement, you're going to get stopped.

While I would go a million miles with Hal's son, there are many I would not give an inch to. Never let them search you vehicle without a warrant AND a supervisor ON SITE. This isn't a guarantee but it usually improves your odds.

Remember; large amounts of cash in your pocket can well be taken as potential drug money, either from sales or for purchasing.

Be SAFE my Friends.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kurt Baltrusch on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 08:59 am:

Here is another take on it. I recently sold my daughter's car locally and the buyer gave me $6000 (not even $10,000)in cash. My daughter lives in another state, but her bank has outlets here, so I just got her account number and went to her bank to deposit the cash into her account. They would not accept it! I had to go to my bank, get a check, take it back to hers, and then they put a hold on the check until midnight. I should have challenged that but it was no big deal. Finally, police deserve our support.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim R. Wynn on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 09:22 am:

I can't deposit in my kids' accounts unless I am also on the account. With all that is going on in this world today, I don't envy the police. People that point fingers at police actions should spend at least 24 hrs in a police uniform or in the family of a police officer. Taught my kids many years ago "yes sir, no sir and thank you sir".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 09:59 am:

I have three kids and all of us occasionally pay money for this or that to each other. I have been a co-holder of a bank account with my daughter for years and we only use it to move money back and forth between the two of us. (If she buys tickets for an event, for instance, I can put what I owe her in the account.) My older son has an account at the same bank, but I am not on the account. My online banking has an option to transfer money to another account holder at the same bank. My younger son has an account at a different bank and we use PayPal to pay each other. There are lots of secure ways to transfer money.

I tend to be reluctant to embrace new ways of doing things. (Really? A Model T owner reluctant to embrace new things?) My bank started pushing online deposits with a smartphone a few years ago and I decided earlier this year to try it. (Since I moved a few years ago, the closest branch of my bank is about three miles away.) I log on to my account, take a picture of the front and back of the check during the deposit process, specify the account and the money is available in the account the next day. I'm not sure I would do it with a large check, but I don't get very many of those so it seems to work okay.

When my family moved from one St. Louis suburb to another in 1949, the new area didn't have dial phones. Now I can do banking transactions from a small device I carry on my belt. Gotta love technology's inexorable advance (sometimes, anyway). :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 10:06 am:

I have always carried and paid cash for stuff.
But as some of you,I am frightened by what I have read lately.
PLEASE do not take this the wrong way but please DO research before saying it can't happen.
IF you are carrying more than 2 months pay,it is eligiable for civil forfieture. Your criminal record is not always a factor.They are "arresting" the money so to speak.You will go free and broke from the traffic stop.Wondering how you will buy gas to get home.
And it will cost alot for lawyers to get it back.
I have not been a victum of this and hope I never am.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Codman on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 10:33 am:

To Dave Hanlon, Carrying a firearm is OK in your own state, but not all states recognize carry permits from other states. Federal law does permit the possession of a firearm when travelling from one state to another - presuming that the firearm is legal in both and you are simply going from one to the other, but carrying to guard money for a business transaction in another state would not fit the law. In some states the gun could get you into far more trouble then the money.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 10:37 am:

Do you remember when the paper money had printed on it, "This Note Is Legal Tender For All Debts, Public and Private"? I am treasurer for church and when I go in to make a deposit of the weekly contribution, I have to show my ID to deposit the cash! This started this year. I asked why? I was told it was needed to check for, "money laundering".
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham, Blackfoot, Idaho on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 10:40 am:

Reciprocity on CC permits is spotty. I'd think anyone who has one would be aware of what is legal when they travel. If not they should be.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 10:52 am:

I agree with you Rich - I always determine the C.C. laws of the States we travel through and observe the regulations.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Andreasen on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 10:55 am:

First of all, the notion that cash HAS to be accepted as payment is not true. The phrase "legal for all debts, public and private" simply means that the seller CAN accept it IF HE WISHES TO. There is NOTHING that requires him to accept that form of payment.

I used to carry large amounts of cash years ago, along with a legal sidearm. I finally stopped and started using bank checks issued by my local bank. The bank at the receiving end will usually want to allow some time for the check to be verified. Big deal. I can wait a bit in order to painlessly complete a major transaction.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Cibolo, Texas on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 11:04 am:

I have sold two cars, each for $30,000.00, and asked for cash for each. One buyer flew to Houston from Nashville, TN and the other, drove from Salida, CO. Both had briefcases full and had no problem. As Mark Chaffin said above, a law enforcement officer has not need to take a person's belongings unless there is probable cause or he is crossing the U.S. borders. If you, as a traveler, present no reason for law enforcement to be suspicious, I would not feel threatened. I would be more worried about REAL criminals.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walter Higgins on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 11:28 am:

This is not my opinion on the subject one way or the other, but the cause for concern expressed by some is related to articles like this:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2014/06/05/cops-in-texas-seize- millions-by-policing-for-profit/#52fcf86e1a81

I remember reading articles a few years ago where Tenaha, Texas was in the spotlight regarding this and they are mentioned in the Forbes article.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire (La Florida!) on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 11:46 am:

All designed to make us more accepting of digital currency!My father was a State Trooper and did not like Civil Forfeiture due to the likelihood of corruption. What happened to my cousin in Maryland though takes the cake, seems that he was driving through the state and was pulled over and had his car searched and the Police officer threatened to take him to jail if he didn't tell him where his firearm was (Maryland does not recognize Florida CCW permits). He explained that he did not bring it with him because the eastern seaboard had too many patchwork laws that made it too confusing to carry and when he asked the officer how he knew he had a permit the officer said we cross reference Florida registrations with the CCW database and that is probable cause in the search of his car they found a spent .22 casing and fined him $250. Stay home don't do anything and maybe we will leave you alone.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Cibolo, Texas on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 11:52 am:

Tenaha, Texas, south of Texarkana, TX on US 59, the straightest route from Texarkana to Houston, has had the reputation for decades of being a speed trap and the most aggressive when it comes to outsiders. Mind the vehicle laws and cross your T's and dot your I's, when travelling through there. There is a website, the name escapes me, where you can check for 'speed traps' in your area or any U.S. state. If you do a lot of traveling, it might be of benefit to check it out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 12:18 pm:

Terry, this one? https://www.speedtrap.org/


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don - Conroe, TX on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 12:20 pm:

I was in Law Enforcement (drug dog handler) for 4 years and, because of that, I'll never consent to my vehicle being searched if I'm stopped for a traffic violation.

Most cops are awesome, great folks but a few are dirtbags and, if I'm pulled over, I have no way of knowing if I've randomly gotten the dirtbag.

The last time I was stopped for speeding was about 15 years ago and the officer asked for permission to search my car. I was taken aback because it was just a plain traffic stop (10mph over the limit).

So, I asked him, "did you stop me in order to search my car?" He looked surprised...then said "no".

I then asked, "do you have probable cause to search my car?" Again...he said, "no".

I replied, "well, then please finish writing the citation and we'll both be on our way."

He then asked if I was former law enforcement. When I replied that I was and told him the capacity in which I'd served, he let me go with a warning. I suspect that if I'd told him that I wasn't former law enforcement, the situation would've ended differently.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Colin Mavins Winnipeg,Canada on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 02:37 pm:

I guess Winnipeg is still small enough that we dont think about this happening here I just paid 14,000 cash for my new drive to work vehicle and when I sold the 42 Jeep the guy put 25,000 cash on the table, I took it to the bank all they asked was were I got the money I told them and all was good. Cheers from small town Winnipeg


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 02:54 pm:

Colin,

I believe cash bank transactions of $10,000 or more here in the USA must be reported to the Internal Revenue Service regardless of what you tell bank staff. It's just another way for "big brother" to watch over you and be sure you don't do anything he doesn't like, and more importantly be sure he gets his cut of EVERYTHING.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Keppler, Fredon NJ on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 02:58 pm:

The things I learn on this Forum! Next year I will be renting an RV and traveling across the country and I had planned on bringing a bunch of cash, after reading this I wont be. Ill get a bunch of travelers checks I guess


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard H.Miller on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 03:19 pm:

I have reviewed all above responses, and to those supporters of law enforcement I thank you. Having been a law enforcement officer for 36 years I know that the vast majority of officers are good, and honest. As with any occupation there are always a few bad Apple's, but it's a small minority. Law enforcement officer are given a huge responsibility to protect the citizens in thier respective jurisdictions. They put there life on the line everyday even for THOSE that don't support them. Next time you need help, you know who you can depend on. I'm not going to try to articulate a response to each comment as this would be fruitless. You are all adults and are set in your ways, and beliefs, even if it's hearsay. I would stand behind and support your law enforcement, support that thin blue line, those who know Duty,Courage, Honor, dedication to make things better than they found them.
You know where I stand on this issue.
Respectfully submitted,
Sgt.R.H.Miller (retired)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 03:23 pm:

Thank you Richard.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 03:25 pm:

Richard,

I have a son who is a sworn law enforcement officer. I agree with your comments completely!

Thank you for your service to your community.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard H.Miller on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 03:30 pm:

Thank you, it was a pleasure to serve.
One last comment: To those who have legitimately been treated unfairly by law enforcement, let me apologize to you for all the good and decent officers out there who deserve and have earned your respect!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 04:35 pm:

Last time I was at the bank with any money of large amount,several years back, I was told it is now 5000 dollars that has to be reported to the IRS.Not 10 like we have always understood it to be.
I ask why and I was told that folks with 10 grand or more to deposit were just holding part of it until a day or 2 later and monitoring was ineffective.
Our big brother also watches frequancy of smaller transactions for this same reason. Folks putting in a 1000 or so every few days they think are just trying to skirt the law.
I have no idea what a travelers check or how to use it.Hum. 2 folks that don't know each other,looks like a good chance to get a "check" printed on the 4 year old kids computer the night before.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gary hammond-Forest, Va on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 04:38 pm:

Traveler's checks ARE NOT ACCEPTED at many places here. They are a big counterfeited item in the U.S.. Better take a common credit card.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim R. Wynn on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 05:14 pm:

My brother's thoughts as a police officer was that he was going home that night. "I would rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6". I'm the 25+ years as a police officer he only had the need to fire his weapon twice in the line of duty.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Thursday, November 15, 2018 - 11:53 pm:

That makes me really angry. And the IL state, according to a former friend, is full of such activity.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Curtis Fesler on Friday, November 16, 2018 - 07:50 am:

As a former LEO I believe bad cops are few and far between but they do exist. My advice is to conduct the transaction in a public place and a police station is best and a bank is second. As to searches by police officers, there is no reason to search your car without probable cause. When and officer asks permission to search your car he doesn't have PC and at that point is on a fishing expedition. Always be cooperative but decline permission. It is doubtful any of us would be put in this situation due to age and image. If they push it have a supervisor called to the scene. Ask for a search warrant. We do not need anyone going through our personal property for no reason.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob from Nova Scotia on Friday, November 16, 2018 - 11:18 am:

Just because the cops have no right to search, doesn't mean it won't happen. Also the question of "are you carrying large amounts of cash?" Could lead to it being seized. The excuse is normal people dont carry that amount of cash. And civil forfeiture fears its ugly head. Its happening in Canada too, in areas of British Columbia


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don - Conroe, TX on Friday, November 16, 2018 - 11:30 am:

Unfortunately you're correct Rob.

As a former drug-dog handler, I know that a handler can push his dog into alerting at any time. So...if the cops are crooked, and a person doesn't consent to a search, they can call in a drug-dog and create a false alert.

Once the dog has alerted, Probable Cause is created.

I'm not suggesting that all cops are bad...just the opposite, most cops are salt-of-the-earth, great people. But this garbage does happen. Anyone who gets overly defensive about any criticism of law enforcement is letting their emotions control them. I have a ton of respect for LE and still have many, many friends who are still active LE, but trust me...the bad ones do exist and it's best to know your rights.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard H.Miller on Friday, November 16, 2018 - 03:47 pm:

It IS good to know your rights, however, I will not offer any legal advise, as I am not an attorney. Especially in a public forum format where those who may benefit are those that are transporting or trafficking illegal substances.
It is not fair to brand all LEO as being " highway robbers". When someone suggests that you transport and sell drugs to convert to quick cash. Someone has to step in and say something. Not for a minute do I believe the comment to sell drugs was made in jest. I believe that most people on this site are good people and will never have a problem when stopped by LEO. Not to say it can't happen, but as with any group or class on person you will find bad apples. Just as most people in this country are good law abiding people, it always the few bad ones that make a bad name for others. Most of those who are anti Law Enforcement are also just plain Anti- Government. Yes this country has it's issues but it still the best country on Earth.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Schrope - Upland, IN on Friday, November 16, 2018 - 08:08 pm:

Here's my take on this.

I was an Over-the-Road Owner-Operator in the late '90's. Since I always had an older truck, I was stopped and checked a lot. Most of the time, the guys I dealt with were fine - just doing their job. Occasionally though, I got a bad one that had an attitude problem. On the other hand, one time at the scales north of Billings, MT, I was told to bring in my paperwork. I did, but the DOT guy didn't even look at it. He just wanted someone to talk to. He told me about his kids and about anything else he could think of. Finally, I asked if I could go as I had to be in Great Falls that night. Believe me though, that was the unusual one.

On another line, I have a cousin-in-law that was high up in two big metro areas and ended up in the Secret Service. He told about the "Gypsy Cops". These are the one's that get in trouble and are allowed to resign instead of getting fired. They move on the another small town and get another job. They do this until they get old enough to retire.

Years ago, in a small town close, there were three cops that got caught fooling with underage girls under security cameras of a closed factory. Obviously, they didn't know they were working. They were allow to resign and are now working in other small towns in central Indiana.

(Message edited by fschrope on November 16, 2018)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Gitts - Ferndale, WA on Saturday, November 17, 2018 - 10:24 am:

As a retired L/E officer (34 yrs), I've always met someone who has a "bad cop" story. To debate the above posts would be a waste of time. What I find interesting is that these posts have deteriorated to have NOTHING to do with model T's or the hobby. It's interesting that nobody who has posted, or those who have not (but mostly likely have read some or all of these) have said nothing about this no longer being relevant to model T's. I guess when it comes to "cop bashing", the rules are suspended???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Saturday, November 17, 2018 - 10:30 am:

Les

I have taken multiple opportunities to pass on posting on this, as it only would serve to bump it to the top, but I agree with you that it has taken a very unhappy path and does not serve the hobby. I've been amazed at it's longevity...of course now my post only prolongs it...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Saturday, November 17, 2018 - 10:33 am:

Lee,I see your point as other have by now I am sure.
But this would become related very quickly if someone was traveling accross several states to buy exspensive rare cars and was ask for cash for the transaction.
Unless folks that are able to do that sort of thing explain to us exactly how they do it without issue, We may never know exactly how to keep this from being T related.
I would say if I was able to scrap up 10 grand to buy a nice car and lost it 2 states away from home because of this law,it would definantly be T related for me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Bingham, Blackfoot, Idaho on Saturday, November 17, 2018 - 10:43 am:

Les, though the topic opened with "When I buy a model T . . ." it was actually about civil forfeiture. Probably should have been prefaced "OT". Conversational drift Is pretty normal here.

I note most posts have been supportive of law officers. I have too many close friends in LE to be otherwise. I have never been stopped for a traffic issue and been treated other than professionally. There have been three in my 55 years of driving that were less than cordial. The few others were actually pleasant experiences. I don't know how you guys do it. God bless all our men (and women) in blue.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Monday, November 19, 2018 - 10:04 pm:

I tend to be supportive of law enforcement officers. I have had a number of jobs in my life (never could decide what I wanted to be when I grew up), but none of my many job descriptions has ever included being willing to lay down my life for a complete stranger with little or no notice, and none of my jobs entailed the risk of having to do that. There have been too many instances lately of cops doing everyday tasks and being shot and killed by a deranged low-life unexpectedly. I haven't had a run-in with a cop for a long time - I outgrew driving like a maniac many decades ago - and I make a point of being cordial when I meet or talk to them. It seems to me that it's a tough job. Why make it tougher?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Monday, November 19, 2018 - 11:34 pm:

Well, I will try to help bring this to more old car related. A number of you have expressed how to buy an old car without putting large amounts of cash at risk to this law that is clearly against a law bidding citizen.
Okay, one can buy an old car seen or unseen by financing it through any one of the old car creditors. Of course, there is a little paper work & leg work to do but, the creditors are on your side and will send an inspector out no matter where in the country the car is to see that the car exists, starts & drives, and title matches and is in order. Only once all this has been completed will the funds be dispatched. Also, needed on your end is 10% of the purchase price. You are free to determine the length of the loan with no prepayment penalties. I have purchased two old vehicles this way when they were across the country and flying out to inspect on my own was not financially viable. I had both cars shipped to me and each transaction went about as smooth as they could have been. I choose to purchase this way as most of my money is tight up in retirement accounts and did not want to disturb these accounts. Hopefully, I eventually plan on buying another car and this is the way I will do it again. If this information helps someone I will be glad.....í

Cheers,
Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 - 01:54 am:

I donít carry cash.
When we went from here to Colorado as soon as we left CA. We could not use an ATM to buy gas.
I saw plenty of U.S Banks along the way and I stopped at several to get enough cash for the next fill up.
When I get paid I deposit all but $20 into one of two banks I do business with. I have an ATM for each of those banks.
Iíve been held up at gunpoint twice. The first one cost me around $300, because a customer had paid me with cash and the second maybe forty dollars.
Every business takes ATM cards. They can use your credit
card but they canít use your ATM.
I carry one credit card in each car for emergency use.
I keep them under the trunk floor mat. Never know when I might need a new tire or something or maybe a way to get home after a robbery.
The last time I was held up they got $7700 with one of my credit cards and $75 and $37 in gas with another one but they got nothing with my two ATM cards, nothing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chadwick Azevedo on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 - 09:25 am:

It's hard to stay positive with Law enforcement at times. The last time I was stopped was in my '59 Tbird (I am in a small town with 1 road running thru it) for no brake lights on at a stop light. I asked the officer if he saw my brakes come on when I slowed and pulled over. His response was "yes" I received a warning. It did not matter that while stopped my foot was not on the brake therefore the lights were not on.

Before that I was stopped at an inspection point ('99 Tahoe) at which point the car was inspected. The dog "sensed something" even though I don't smoke and have never used or had anyone in the car who did. I was released with a ticket for not having proof of insurance (I was going 2 miles to pick my wife up at work and had left my wallet at home by mistake) which I had to deal with in court. Fortunately they realized I was a local just picking up my wife on the other side of their roadblock of the bridge.

I was pulled over and stopped in the '28 model A for not having turn signals. After informing the officer I was not required to have them I received a fix it ticket for a brake light not bright enough.

I left my sailboat at anchor and received 2 tickets. One for missing registration numbers (they were painted on) and no anchor light (at 1PM) both of which were taken to court and thrown out.

I could give you plenty of examples of things that have happened to friends of mine that would turn your stomach. Unfortunately I have been loosing the respect I had for law enforcement I was raised with.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 - 10:25 am:

Chadwick

I suspect that your problems have more to do with where you live, and the folks who live around you...not you. People are people, and I believe in most instances law enforcement professionals reflect the society that they are sworn to protect. If I had a choice between dealing with a Chicago PD officer and a Wyoming Sheriff, I take the sheriff any day. Both may be fine people, but the people THEY interact with every day, and the risks they are assuming each and every day are quite different, which cannot help but shape how they interact with the public.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 - 10:33 am:

I had a chance to talk with a couple retired lawmen about this yesterday.1 was a CMPD officer and both had witnessed this law being put into use. They said it was very unlikely this would happen unless a drug dog alerted or you acted susispicously. But they could not answer for how others in other countys and states did things.
They also told me if drugs are found the IRS sends a guy out to collect the taxes on the value of those drugs which is due RIGHT THEN. He will remove the rings from your fingers and the leather jacket off you back and leave you in your underware on the street if that is what it takes to collect the tax and if not enough,there goes your house and whatever else it takes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 - 10:40 am:

I know I just posted and this time too...but this thread has really gone on long enough. I wish I could post this without bumping to the top...:-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Juhl - Michigan's Thumb on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 - 10:54 am:

In my lifetime I've been pulled over twice for speeding. The last time was 28 years ago by a couple of state cops with whom I had a truly pleasant conversation at the side of US 2 in Michigan's UP. I was carrying SCUBA gear enroute to a shipwreck exploration adventure and they wanted to hear all about it. Still gave me a ticket, but with a smile and a handshake :-)

I worry a bit when out of state, especially if I'm carrying (I check the laws state by state) and make it a point to stay reasonably close to the speed limit and have all my lights working. So far it's worked. 80,000+ miles and 38 states in my camper van and I haven't been stopped once.

Cops have a tough job and never know what they're going to face when they walk up to a car. I know quite a few officers and have nothing but respect for them. I, myself am a "Special Deputy" in my county as several years ago I worked with the sheriff to form a volunteer aviation unit to assist in Search and Rescue and support law enforcement activities. Working with the department opened my eyes to the underworld that exists even in my rural county.

There are some bad apples wearing police uniforms but fortunately they are rare. Meanwhile, taking a few precautions like others have mentioned in this thread should go a long ways towards avoiding such problems.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard H.Miller on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 - 04:44 pm:

Mack Cole....I personally have stopped and had occasion to seize and arrest numerous people for illegal substances in my 36 years. The statement about the IRS is simply not true. I hesitate to return this topic to the top by even responding, however the info you received is false. I have never even heard of such an instance where that occurred.
Happy Thanksgiving to all. Hoping everyone has a safe and happy holiday.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charles Jenkins - Ohio on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 - 10:15 pm:

Leave the sign at home that says I'm carrying cash and you should be OK


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Olson on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 - 10:37 pm:

I generally always prefer getting cash from people for car parts, vehicles etc. At least with cash generally you know it's good money. People can stop payment on checks or they can bounce and there are even fake cashier checks out there. The government and IRS would love to know every transaction we make but the less they know the better. Generally if I have talked to the person or know them from a site such as this a check is fine. But for selling something on Craigslist or the like I prefer cash. As a business owner who has gotten bad checks in the past, I've never had a problem with good old American US cash. No bitcoin or virtual currency for me, no thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 - 11:04 pm:

If you check feedback on eBay for a guy that is buying something from you you will get a good idea of how the guy operates.
I have sold items to people that had good eBay feedback and never had a check bounce or an unsatisfactory deal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Davis. Tomball Texas on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 - 11:59 pm:

Retired LEO 35 years.There is a saying in law enforcement circles that predate's the model T.
"You can beat the rap but You can't beat the ride"
If they want to search Your car and You object. They can arrest You. and inventory the contents of Your car. No permission or warrant needed.To help avoid traffic stops, obey traffic laws. don't text while driving, stay in Your lane. Make sure Your car's lights are working properly and has valid license plates, insurance and inspection. Don't drive a car owned by a person with outstanding warrants. all this information is stored in the law Enforcement data base. Many police cars are now equipped with automatic cameras that take pictures of traffic in both directions and their car computer checks the license number against the data base and flashes a hit when a match is found and Your Day suddenly goes South!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chadwick Azevedo on Wednesday, November 21, 2018 - 02:38 am:

A friend of mine was stopped as a camera identified his plate and flagged the nearest cruiser. The offense, insurance lapse. Truth he had simple changed insurance companies to save money. One of the most common reasons fore arrest here is "resisting arrest" I'll let you figure that one out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Wednesday, November 21, 2018 - 07:06 am:

Mike Olson, sometimes cash isn't good either. I have been buying and selling parts for 30+ years, mostly buying. I have been selling a lot of my stash in the last couple of years. The ONLY time I ran into a problem was when I took some $100.00 dollar bills to the bank to deposit in our savings account. One of them was counterfit. It could have only come from one buyer as all of the other bills had gone through the bank. I contacted him just to let him know that there was a problem and he should maybe check them out a bit closer. I have no doubt that he had received it in some other transaction and I in no way held him responsible. Never heard anything back, hope he checks them out closer now, I for sure do. Dave


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