What is this exhaust manifold 09-13 . ??????

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: What is this exhaust manifold 09-13 . ??????
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Thursday, November 29, 2018 - 07:44 pm:

While looking thru my pile of exhaust manifolds, I found a weird one. I had seen it before but thought it was a "unmachined" regular manifold. I have seen lots of NOS parts that were not properly machined.

But this one is not a regular manifold. It is made for the pipe to fit into the manifold. The regular manifolds hole is way too small for the pipe to fit inside. The only manifold I am familiar with that the pipe fits inside is the 1909 to maybe 1913 manifolds. ??? The part number is 2715. So could this be a early manifold . ??? Thanks in advance ...

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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, November 29, 2018 - 08:06 pm:

Looks like a Metz manifold to me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Thursday, November 29, 2018 - 08:27 pm:

Erik, It matches the ports of a T perfectly. It also came with a huge pile of NOS Model T parts I bought a few years ago. It could be Metz or some other car, but ??? maybe the part number will tell us something . ??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark A Strange on Thursday, November 29, 2018 - 08:36 pm:

Picture of a Metz engine here:

https://metzauto.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/antique-cars-orient-bike-buckboard- metz-018.jpg


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Thursday, November 29, 2018 - 08:45 pm:

2715 is the part number for a Metz exhaust manifold:

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Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Thursday, November 29, 2018 - 09:27 pm:

Looks like Erik nailed it. The amount of knowledge and information around this place is amazing... 22 minutes and an answer. :-)

Thanks for the input and help ...

Anyone need a NOS Metz exhaust manifold . ??

Have fun and be safe .....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Carter - South Jersey on Thursday, November 29, 2018 - 10:41 pm:

22 minutes and the exhaust manifold is for a Metz Model 22... I think my father needs a straight one - I'll send you a PM.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Morsher on Thursday, November 29, 2018 - 10:54 pm:

Yes, Metz, I had one, too. Also, A Metz head can be used as a high compression head on model T. Youhave to do just a little work on it so it’ll work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Thursday, November 29, 2018 - 11:37 pm:

I think there may be a lot of Metz owners without a manifold. I already have 4 e-mails wanting to buy it. I think it is sold pending payment. Thanks MTFCA. probably will sell it and really did not even try ... :-) :-)

And think, there are folks who are always wanting to change the Forum ??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, November 30, 2018 - 01:09 am:

I think at least half of all Metz cars on the road have model T manifolds and carburetor on them. Old man Metz copied the model T engine with enough differences to avoid infringement, but close enough that Ford parts which were readily available across the country could be used to repair a Metz.
Historic accounts vary on whether that was deliberate, or a simple case of one of his engineers had worked for Ford and copying was easier than designing.

I have a Metz pile of parts that could be restored if someone was crazy enough to take it on. I am pleased that you apparently have found a proper home for that manifold.

As for those that want to change the forum? I think it is nearly perfect the way it is. However, I am a realist, and know and accept that an eventual change is inevitable.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Morsher on Friday, November 30, 2018 - 11:07 am:

Having owned a 1912 Metz torpedo years ago, I remember the history ( vaguely) that Charles Metz was a fellow auto pioneer with Henry, and they were very friendly . Charles was perhaps even a bit more advanced, offering a low priced car , a car for the masses, sooner than Ford thought to. He tried to entice Henry into bringing his struggling operations to Waltham. I don’t think I ever heard of any patent problems or threats, that would be a new one, at least to me. Holley ( another associate) even made an aluminum carb for the Metz, and these pop up once in awhile.
Thanks Donnie for offering that , hope you make a Metz owner very happy, and while the thread drift is going, the US government did Charles Metz in. He did so much war work, and the government was so slow in paying, they could never recover. All this from my poor memory, t


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, November 30, 2018 - 06:53 pm:

Tim M, Sounds like your memory is doing okay to me. Charles Metz is another one of the many automotive pioneers that aren't remembered enough. The treatment he got after the war was reprehensible. He had willingly and fully supported the US efforts in the war, devoting his factories to the war effort. Yet, after the war, anti German sentiment was very high (whether justified or not), and since he was German, the US government chose to be extra slow about paying the bills for his war efforts. Charles Metz had to pay his workers, he had to pay his suppliers. Not being paid for the products he provided for the war effort basically destroyed him financially.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Morsher on Saturday, December 01, 2018 - 09:20 am:

Thanks Wayne, Donnie’s Post has caused me to reminisce about my Metz days. Along with my ‘12 torpedo, came a two cylinder plan car engine. In my opinion, the ‘12 was the best looking thing they ever put out, but the history of the plan car is really interesting. Charles was brought in the revive the failing Orient vehicle company ( orient buckboards, etc ) and his plan was to offer the “plan car”. Who amongst us would not have scratched to send the $27 off every month for a chance at assembling a real car ? The interesting fact is he didn’t even have the engine designed yet when he started sending the auto out by installment. The company sent the most inexpensive parts out first, recieved the much needed cash , and this brought the failing company back to life. Here is a list of the installments, I’ve not seen 5his before yesterday. I recently saw a plan car well restored, and it’s a beautiful little thing. Another unique Metz feature was the artillary wheels could be reversed for northern tread and southern (wide ) tread. They also made a neat little delivery vehicle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, December 01, 2018 - 04:59 pm:

Tim M, It is ironic that Charles Metz was able to take control of the failing Orient, come up with a unique "plan" to save it, and in a few short years turn it into one of the better automotive success stories of the automobile's first two decades. Only to have it destroyed about ten years later by the government and a little dirty dealing. What makes this even more ironic, is that had Charles Metz been a dirty dealer himself? He could have sold the first several packages (the higher profit ones!) to a few hundred people, then simply skipped town and never completed the full set of installments. However, Charles Metz apparently was an honorable man, and he honored his agreement and completed the kits to all that continued to order them. Sadly, it was someone else's dishonorable dealings that destroyed his company.

One of the things I like so much about automotive history, is all the many wonderful stories, the many failures, the thousands of incredible successes, and so many tales of daring do! There are hundreds of stories told ad nauseam. Many of which aren't even true (Henry Ford, packing crates, and floorboards). So many more are written up in articles in hobby magazines a few times over fifty years, and otherwise not told nearly often enough. While Charles Metz would likely have never become Henry Ford (Henry was a nearly unique man in the right place at the right time), Charles's stories should be told, and his accomplishments remembered.


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