What happened to all the T bodies in Australia

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: What happened to all the T bodies in Australia
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hans Schick on Saturday, December 29, 2018 - 04:42 am:

Lets say there were 100,000 Ts sold in Australia of which 10,000 were 26 -7.

Go to a swap meet or look on ebay and any other site and you find 26 -7 body panels.

For every 50 1926 -7 panels I have seen you will find one from an earlier car.

Look at the cars in a club web site and the 26 -7 cars look like they bread like rabbits followed by brass cars

What happened to say the other 80,000 if I allow 10,000 for the brass cars

I have found three bodies but only by hunting where no one else has been or would have gone

Two went to guys making a 50s T bucket. A pity but what do I do with them


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adrian Whiteman, New Zealand on Saturday, December 29, 2018 - 05:00 am:

Termites!

;-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hans Schick on Saturday, December 29, 2018 - 05:05 am:

That accounts for the wood in them but what about the metal panels .

By the sounds of it in NZ you have the Fire Ant of termites


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Dizer on Saturday, December 29, 2018 - 05:15 am:

World wars 1&2 scrap metal drives.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hans Schick on Saturday, December 29, 2018 - 05:29 am:

Hi William That's a fair answer but there are 10 of the brass and 26 -7 for every one of the other years


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Saturday, December 29, 2018 - 06:07 am:

Pre 26 still seem to be well represented, the last national tour had about 33 x 1909-16 brass, 28 x 26-27's and 65 x 1918-25's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hans Schick on Saturday, December 29, 2018 - 06:29 am:

Hi Frank
Ok that is what showed up with about half of the field made up of half the years the car was made.

Far more brass represented in the rally than there share of the 100,000 total

I could use the argument that look at the cars for sale and there are 10 26 -7 for every other year combined


Look at the projects for sale, 26 -7 with panels .

Earlier cars are chassis only.


Still does not get to my point, plenty of 26 -7 bodies. For every 50 1926 -7 panels I have seen you will find one from an earlier car but why.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Saturday, December 29, 2018 - 03:57 pm:

Hans, the answer most likely lies in the method of body construction, and standardisation of production. The early colonial bodies were timber framed, and were much more complicated to build. They also deteriorated faster, into a heap of rusty metal panels. The fact that there was so much variation in bodies means that many of the panels were not identified as T parts and were discarded.

With the introduction of the Ford factory bodies in 1926 came all steel doors, windscreens common to all cars, a mainly steel body [albeit still with a wooden subframe in Australian production] and more robust pressed mudguards.

The numbers Frank mentioned reflect the market for old cars. Many T owners start with a 20's model, and many of those move on to a brass car, as they are seen to be more desirable. This in turn sees the less desirable later cars being more prevalent on the market.

Others may see it differently.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dane Hawley Near Melbourne Australia on Saturday, December 29, 2018 - 05:39 pm:

I think that Allan has the answer. Part of the equation revolves around what is considered, at any given time, worth preserving.

When I joined the veteran Car Club, which then had the cut-off of manufacture before 1st of January 1917, it meant that brass radiator cars were worth preserving, but members were not interested in later ones.

I might be wrong, but AFAIK the other concurrent club was the Vintage Sports Car Club, and few, if any, T's would be considered 'sports cars', so probably no interest there in black radiator T's.

Some years later the Vintage Driver's Club was formed, so owners of later T's at last had a club to recognise them. The one-make clubs are a much later phenomenon.

In those years, there were, of course, T owners and restorers operating, but they would have been working in comparative isolation without any club support.

My own experience was that, as mentioned, I joined the Veteran Car Club in 1959/60. I had acquired a 1918 TT, but that was not a vehicle that I could have used on VCCA events, and although I met up with the odd T owner at the time, there was no formal group to accommodate us or our cars, therefore, I am sure that some potential enthusiast's interest waned, and perhaps changed there focus to more 'desirable' brands. Many Ford cars that could have been salvaged at that time,were simply left to rot.

There was a certain attitude, (perhaps 'snobbery' might be a description) that Veteran T's would be happily acceptable, but Vintage (up to 1930) Fords were so common as to be not worth bothering about. To illustrate my point, right into the end of the 1960's vehicles post 1930, were catered for by a very few clubs, but they were of select brands and referred to as Post Vintage Thoroughbreds. A Ford would never be considered a PVT.

Fortunately things changed as time went by so that today any breed of car can be in the 'Classic' category.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Eckensviller - Thunder Bay, ON on Saturday, December 29, 2018 - 06:13 pm:

Australian T historians will probably need to help me out on this, but my understanding is that the early black-era Tís were delivered as chassis only and local coach builders would sell them as complete cars with their own in-house bodies. At least thatís the impression I get. If thatís true, there should be two main reasons that so few survived:

1. With multiple sources of bodies they lacked the kind of parts interchangeability they would need to keep going later in life. Perhaps they became wooden-bodied hacks in an effort to keep going then those wood bodies subsequently rotted away. Either that or the cars were scrapped for want of hard to source body parts.

2. There are no Ford bodies now because there were none then either.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Saturday, December 29, 2018 - 06:23 pm:

Spot on Tim.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hans Schick on Sunday, December 30, 2018 - 01:05 am:

Hello Allen

I think this line form you would explain MY question best and is.

THE QUESTION under the topic heading as I saw it

For every 50 1926 -7 panels I have seen you will find one from an earlier car.

Allen Said

"most likely lies in the method of body construction, and standardisation of production. The early colonial bodies were timber framed, and were much more complicated to build. They also deteriorated faster, into a heap of rusty metal panels. The fact that there was so much variation in bodies means that many of the panels were not identified as T parts and were discarded.

With the introduction of the Ford factory bodies in 1926 came all steel doors, windscreens common to all cars, a mainly steel body [albeit still with a wooden subframe in Australian production] and more robust pressed mudguards"

To add to what Allen said I think when it came to restoration time and you wanted a T the wood in Australian bodies is a major skill problem compared to welding in some metal in the later bodies 26 - 7


The end result is faster deterioration of the wood bodies so faster to the scrap pile and recycled and the time and skill to fix the wood cars

You end up with more restored 26 -7 plus what Dane said and Allen pointed out about T owners moving to brass cars you end up with two eras of T represented by more than their fair share of the cars seen

To what Tim said, the blacked out picture below shows what was interchangeable to all body styles with some Veteran exceptions



Some small merit to the body panel interchangeable point


Picture taken form another forum post






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hans Schick on Sunday, December 30, 2018 - 01:15 am:

TO my question asked

If I gave it more thought and having made the wood for an earlier car and it not being more desirable as Dane points out I would have said I will buy that 26 - 7 and if you pay me I will take that 23 , that 23 is a lot of work with all that wood


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hans Schick on Sunday, December 30, 2018 - 01:23 am:

I think Allen has a Roadster with a lot of wood ,and not inferring he is a snob, he will say that wood is a lot of work


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