Lining rims

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2018: Lining rims
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Prince Madras, Oregon on Friday, January 04, 2019 - 06:51 pm:

I know that this can be a hot topic and I am not trying to start anything. Tire work is one of my least favorite things to do and I really hate flaps so what I have done for years and lots of miles is to clean the inside of the rim really good and then paint it with the primer that goes under elastic roof paint, I put on at least 2 heavy coats and let it dry really well and then assemble. Just thought I would pass along what works for me. Word I live by are "If it's stupid but it works it's not stupid"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Keppler, Fredon NJ on Friday, January 04, 2019 - 07:03 pm:

Dennis, what is there to hate about flaps, I dont get it. When I did the tires on my car and my friends also we both had flaps and it makes the job a breeze. Maybe thats why its one of your least favorite things to do


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Juhl - Michigan's Thumb on Friday, January 04, 2019 - 07:20 pm:

I don't like the expense of flaps but they sure protect the tube from rough rims!

I know lots of things have been tried as protective barriers between rims and tubes... the proof is in how well the tube holds up and what you find inside the next time you change the tire. If something works I see no problem with it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry K. Lee on Friday, January 04, 2019 - 07:21 pm:

Dennis,

I have seen this done years back with no ill effects. Breaking and insulating between rim and tube is the purpose of the flap. If you feel confident and comfortable with it, go for it.

You did not say what size tire. I do not recommend this on split 21 style as a pinch could occur.

All the Best,

Hank in Tin-A-See


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry K. Lee on Friday, January 04, 2019 - 08:00 pm:

On another note the flap does prevent tube pinch between tire and rim.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Prince Madras, Oregon on Friday, January 04, 2019 - 08:15 pm:

I have had more tube failures because of poor quality tubes than anything. I paint both 21's and 30x3 1/2's and have had no problems with either. The problem that I have had with flaps is that I have ended up with a fold in the tube that wouldn't smooth out, it may not have been the fault of the flap but that is what was happening and have had no problems since I changed my ways.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Saturday, January 05, 2019 - 05:51 am:

Doug, I hate to pay out well in excess of $150 plus shipping for a set of flaps when I can use rim liners cut from discarded modern tubes at no cost.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Keppler, Fredon NJ on Saturday, January 05, 2019 - 08:07 am:

I didn't realize they cost that much, my car had them in the tires already. The thing I liked the most about them is how they surround the tube so there is no chance of pinching it with the bars


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dufault on Saturday, January 05, 2019 - 08:41 am:

Flaps or no flaps?

A lot depends upon the rim and type of tire...

clincher o no - split rim or no...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Saturday, January 05, 2019 - 10:37 am:

A rim liner, and a flap are two different things. They don't even serve the same purpose! Some people just don't get it!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Art McTevia on Saturday, January 05, 2019 - 11:19 am:

Didooooos to Doug Keppler. No chance of pinching with bars.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, January 05, 2019 - 11:26 am:

The only thing I see wrong with flaps is the cost.

Larry, why not explain the difference?
:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, January 05, 2019 - 12:02 pm:

Rim liner goes on the rim in the drop center type also used on other styles to protect the tube from the ends of the spokes. ( Bikes use a rim liner for that reason)
A flap goes in the tire to cradle the tube and protect it from getting pinched between the edges when the tire is installed on the rim. Also keeps the tube from getting down into the gap between the edges or the split on the 21" wood wheel rims.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Saturday, January 05, 2019 - 04:41 pm:

Further to Mark's input, flaps are used in split rims like the 26-7 T's and in lockrim type wheels on the rear of TT's. Both these styles of rims allow water into the tyre/tube assembly, which causes rust, which in turn can lead to punctures when the rust flakes let loose. On 26-27 split rims the tube is protected from chafing at the rim join.

When fitting tyres to such rims, the tyre, tube and flap are assembled first and the whole unit dropped over the rim, no levers needed.

Flaps in clincher rims are not necessary. They do provide expensive insurance against poor tyre fitting technique and clumsy use of tyre irons.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks NY on Saturday, January 05, 2019 - 05:59 pm:

Over 15 million cars left the factory without flaps with no trouble...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, January 05, 2019 - 06:51 pm:

The point of rim flaps, if you do a little studying on the difference of tire construction then and now the point might be understood. Most of the tires made today do not wrap all the way around the tube, they leave a gap on the rim side. That is why the old tires like Riverside, you had to cut a notch for the valve stem to stick through. I have also see the case were some tubes, labeled 30X3-1/2 (more like 28") are smaller in diameter (inner and outer) then originals. They do not want to stay in the tires so flaps help keep the tube in the tire while you mount them. Just because Ford built 15M cars does not mean what we have to work with today is the same as tires made today.
I have also seen a number of 21 tires mounted on the split rims that had flaps installed way back in the maybe judging by the flap in 50-60's, but could have been older.
Did people pinch tubes back then? Yes. For the cost of tubes today, spending extra for a reusable flap sounds like a good investment to me.
Now if you do not want to install flaps that is your choice, just no duct tape. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Saturday, January 05, 2019 - 07:53 pm:

Mark, while' you're right, I fear you've entered the "no win zone". Good luck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Keppler, Fredon NJ on Saturday, January 05, 2019 - 08:06 pm:

15 million cars left the factory built by men who all they did all day was mount tires on rims, they had it down to a science im sure but to the average guy maintaining his antique car a flap in the tire to protect the tube while dismounting it seems a no brainer to me. After all who is dismounting tires with tubes by hand with tire irons these days unless they are bicycles. To each his own


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nevada Bob Middleton on Saturday, January 05, 2019 - 08:16 pm:

Run proper pressures flaps ar not needed


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks NY on Saturday, January 05, 2019 - 09:56 pm:

Your successful use of needless flaps does not negate the fact that guys are running successfully without them..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger - Wyoming on Saturday, January 05, 2019 - 10:19 pm:

A careful reading of Mark's second sentence explains why flaps are beneficial...not mandatory...not needless...but beneficial.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Keppler, Fredon NJ on Saturday, January 05, 2019 - 10:23 pm:

OK Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, January 05, 2019 - 10:33 pm:

RE; Just because Ford built 15M cars does not mean what we have to work with today is the same as tires made today.

The last "today" should have been "back then".

Also I was talking about some of the tubes sold today.
:-)

Flaps are not a cure for under inflating.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan McEachern on Saturday, January 05, 2019 - 10:46 pm:

I always paint my rims with a mixture of Gilsonite and molasses. It takes a few years to harden up because the rims won't fit in my wife's oven. An old(er) timer told me that if I add some tobasco sauce, it will harden up faster.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, January 05, 2019 - 11:22 pm:

"... who is dismounting tires with tubes by hand with tire irons these days..."

Guilty, Your Honor.

It's been several years, but I think some of the tires on my touring have flaps. I don't remember how many. None of the clinchers on my 1915 runabout have them. After about 3000 miles, so far so good.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Sunday, January 06, 2019 - 12:18 am:

I for one have never understood the "Never flappers" here. I understand its an additional cost, and was never offered that way from the factory, but sometimes a little added safety and some common sense goes a long way while we drive along in a different world in our 100 year old time machines. I have always been, and always will be an advocate that you should do whatever the hell you want to do with your T, but don't skimp on safety, just for a little sense of purity/authenticity. Just my 2c.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Denny Seth - Jefferson, Ohio on Sunday, January 06, 2019 - 08:44 am:

A lot of flapping going on here about tire flaps.
I say it's your car, your choice.
If you like them then use them if you don't like them then don't use them.

To all those who say they aren't original and Ford didn't provide them from the factory well he didn't provide a spare tire either so did you add one to your totally original car?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don - Conroe, TX on Sunday, January 06, 2019 - 09:15 am:

Im about to buy a new set of tires and tubes for my 21 split rims and it seems to me like that junction where the split comes together is going to be tube killer over time.

Ill be buying a set of flaps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Sunday, January 06, 2019 - 09:32 am:

Actually, only about 13,136,269 or so Model T's left the factory without flaps...:-)



Service Bulletin note that 21" split rim wood wheels left the factory with flaps! And note no flaps in the drop enter wire wheels, but rim liners.

Old time process for many was to add flaps to the tire, but in those days the flaps were different than what we have today. Today our flaps are the type for trucks, one-piece, with considerable thickness. They are excellent to prevent tube issues in mounting, and supporting the thin modern tubes.



Flaps from long ago, thinner and just a length, with slot at one end to slip over the tube valve stem. The edges wide enough to wrap up the tube side and stay out of the clincher rim groove.



Old time style flap I removed from a worn old tire. These were a good measure of protection to the tube. Ford factory didn't install, but owners did who knew that costly tubes and tires needed protection from rough roads.





Use of modern day flaps in clinchers is owner's option. I like them, and use in all my remounts, makes for rather easy install and protects today's thinner tubes from the rather pointy and short hard rubber clincher edges of modern tires too. Clincher tires today don't really meet together when mounted, leaving a stiff gap for the tube to ride on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Sunday, January 06, 2019 - 07:45 pm:

Don, flaps are essential in split rims, to protect the tube at the join. Dan's post explains this, and it is factory correct.

Allan from down under.


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