MTFCA Forum

Ron Patterson

When rebuilding Model T Ford ignition coils I periodically come across coils made specifically for the Fordson tractor. Fordson tractor era coils were branded with the words "Tractor Unit" on the long narrow side of the wooden coilbox. There are also "tractor Unit" coils made by KW Ignition up to 19...

Ron Patterson

Bring to top.
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

The Fun Projects coils have been sold.
Thank you MTFCA Classifieds

Ron Patterson

Photo Attached

Ron Patterson

4 FP coils for sale.docx Matched set of four Model T Ford ignition coils originally made by John Regan (formally FunProjects). Assembled using original Ford internal windings that have been completely tested and installed in new Maple wood coilboxes made to Ford original specifications. Ink stamped...

Ron Patterson

Bring to top.
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

Ford and KW

Ron Patterson

Yes a 1915 Model T would have had brass top coils, but there are some variations based upon date and who actually manufactured the ignition coils. Ford made coils had six top screws and no plating on the raised metal stamping. KW made coils had six top screws and the metal stamping was black anodize...

Ron Patterson

Wanted to Buy Model T Ford Ignition Coils Looking to buy large stashes of used and rebuildable Model T Ford ignition coils. I have customers who want rebuilt coils, but have no cores. I will buy your used coils outright for cash, trade for rebuilt coils or take your extras as full or partial payment...

Ron Patterson

Catguy The Ammeter needle not moving when the engine is revved up is an indication of yet another charge/discharge circuit wiring problem. It is those five pesky charge/discharge circuit wires that are commonly wired incorrectly. It usually takes about five minutes to correct these problems. That as...

Ron Patterson

Looking to buy large stashes of used and rebuildable Model T Ford ignition coils. I have customers who are seeking rebuilt ignition coils, but have no cores. I will buy your used coils outright for cash, trade for rebuilt coils or take your extras as full or partial payment. The more coils you have ...

Ron Patterson

Read the following, conduct the two tests for correct charging/discharging wiring and fix it.

Ron Patterson

John
Your description of problem has the classic symptoms of poorly adjusted ignition coils.
Try to find a local friend that has a known set of good coils that have been properly rebuilt and operate well on Magneto.
Try them in your car and see what happens.
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

Here is an article I wrote about setting the Model T generator null point and how to correctly set the charging by setting the third brush adjustment.

Ron Patterson

I found it! Several years ago Bob Cascisa and I were creating a complete and correct set of Model T wiring diagrams. I also prepared an article that addressed those pesky five charge/discharge wires that are commonly found incorrectly terminated resulting in incorrect charging/discharging Ammeter re...

Ron Patterson

Jim
Print out the "Wiring Diagram"PDF above and with it in hand give me a call later today and I will explain.
I should take the time to write it down in electronic format for future use?
Ron Patterson
231-348.5085
.

Ron Patterson

The car is wired incorrectly? Just a guess, but it supports the stated facts. The battery still starts the engine, but never any charge indication at the dash ammeter. There are total of five wires in the charge and discharge circuits of the Model T. But these five wires are commonly miss-wired caus...

Ron Patterson

Be aware 1926 Model T's had two different types of fan belt adjustment eccentrics.
Make sure you know which type you have before you start wrenching?

Ron Patterson

KW Master Vibrator coil.
Has a low inductance primary winding and no secondary winding.
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

If you properly rebuild your coilbox; shims are not required.
It is just another half-vast things people do to model T's.

Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

Is yours a 1912 Ford Baudette body delivery car?
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

Is it a 1912 Ford body made by Baudette Company delivery car you are building?
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

Remember guy's it is a TT and all car wiring rules may or may not not apply.
Where is the coilbox?
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

March 1922 to 1927 Wiring Diagram 8-30-2018.jpg Be careful! There are many (incorrect) wiring diagrams floating around in Model T land. . Attached is one I guarantee to be correct. The fact that you have a TT is an additional wrinkle. Before you start changing things check out how your care is wire...

Ron Patterson

When replacing the timer on a Model T the initial timing (with the spark lever al the way retarded) should be checked and set at 15.5 degrees ATDC.

Ron Patterson

Kerry
I try to stay in my own lane on this Forum.
Model T Ford electricity is my area of expertise.
Notwithstanding some posters here nobody is an expert in every aspect of Model T's.
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

Michael (a customer from 20 years ago) I enjoy telling people that when we both look at a Model T Ford ignition coil, we both see two entirely different things. I prefer to work on coils that have no been molested by predecessors. Every time I think I'd seen it all, I find some "new" way to make a m...

Ron Patterson

After over 30 years of Model T ignition coil rebuilding,
I finished and shipped rebuilt coil #24018.
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

Tim
You can email St Mary's along with your photo above and I 'll bet they could ID that brush and the source.
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

Tim
You can email St Mary's along with your photo above and I 'll bet they could ID that brush and the source.
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

Neil I knew Tony Wiltshire well and he shared much about his timer design. My understanding is the brush was an off the shelf item, but I do not know the source and I never asked. Try St Mary's Carbon or other brush manufacturers who make many kinds of brushes for motors and I think you might be abl...

Ron Patterson

Sometime during the 1913-1914 conversion to the Williams designed KW coil Ford had a need for additional coils to meet production needs. The Heinze coil you describe was purchased to meet those requirements. The size and terminal spacing are the same as the Ford/KW coils used up till the end of Mode...

Ron Patterson

Richard A similar situation occurred when Ford introduced the spare tire carrier for the 1926 Roadster pickup spare tire carrier. Attached is a photo of this part. The problem was how to support the spare tire carrier base to the embossed ridges on the uneven running board surface. A simple flat shi...

Ron Patterson

Rainer
I think you meant to say in item 4 "After two complete (crankshaft) revolutions you have had all four coils in use"
Ron Patterson.

Ron Patterson

Michael Ford Methods and Ford Shops authored by Arnold and Faurotte was published in 1915 by the Engineering Magazine. The authors were granted full and unfettered free access to the Ford production facility at Highland Park. It is important to know this book is only a snap shot of Ford's production...

Ron Patterson

The star denotes the bearer is a supervisor.

Ron Patterson

Anytime one coil is operating continously regardless of timer position can be caused by several things as indicated in several responces to the original post. But I can tell you this, it can be very dangerous fire hazard and you had bettered get to the bottom of the cause immediately! What hapens is...

Ron Patterson

The specific coil depicted in your photos is typical of the "standard" size (non metal top) coil adopted for the Model T mid year 1917 and can be used in the metal coilbox that was introduced in mid year 1913 and used till thge end of Model T production. The "standard" size all wood and metal top co...

Ron Patterson

Mike and John Exactly correct. A clear give away is the Mission style light standards. This photo came from the photographic archives of the Smithsonian Institute. This photo was taken pointing North-East at the corner of (possibly Seventh or?) Eight street in Riverside, California. You can clearly ...

Ron Patterson

George
It is not New Orleans.
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

If you have ever been there you will know immediately where it is.
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

David M. I know you think your right, and you are for SOME generators. The T generator is not robust like other generators you have experience with and will not survive much abuse. Automobiles from the late thirties, fortys and fiftys are full field controll type and you can run them without a load ...

Ron Patterson

I suggest no one try Altairs generator test.
No useful information can be obtained by doing so.
In doing so your just a few steps away from catastrophically destroying your generator.
DON'T test a third brush regulation generator in that manner!
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

Dan
I have utilized the services of "Casting Salvage Technologies" in Virginia several times with complete satisfaction.
When the casting was repaired it was impossible to find the repaired location.
https://www.therestorationshoponline.com/
Good luck.
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

Winter Special ends Monday January 31, 2022.

Ron Patterson

Jeff
Count me and Petoskey in.
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

I was told today that Andy had passed?
Can this be true?
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

Michael
Your photo is of a NuRex brand diode cutout conversion.
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

The mfd specification for the Model T Ford capacitor changed slightly over the years over the years of Model T production. . A Ford archive reference (Circa 1926) can be found in the "encyclopedia". The capacitor value is stated as .4-4.5 mfd. I have three Circa 1915-18 (“Red Brass”) top coils that ...

Ron Patterson

Sorry, guess I was looking at the wrong thing.

Ron Patterson

Those are USED (groan) and tested reverse current cutouts and NOT voltage regulators.
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

JB
These charts only define metalurigical compositions.
Other original Ford specs define mechanical properties and I do not have them.
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

James B.
Already did that look at these two links already posated above.

Non-Ferrous_Alloys-824824.pdf: (45.2 KiB) Downloaded 59 times

Ferrous_Alloy_Chart_2018-824823.pdf: (197.84 KiB) Downloaded 68 times

Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

Recently in a thread discussing magneto clamp screws the material these were made of. I knew magnet clamp screws were NOT Bronze and pointed out the original Ford print for the part indicated they were made of what Ford called "S Brass". At the time I could not find my Henry Ford trade School listin...

Ron Patterson

My response to what I understood the original posters query was carefully crafted to be about the wood KW coilbox with the early KW coils used in the firt half of 1913. Frank B. has helped that with better photos of the exact situation I described. I would only add that soldering tabs to the coilbox...

Ron Patterson

Jerry
Oops sorry.
You are correct..... modeltcoils(you know what goes here)windstream(you know what goes here)net
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

Rich The solution to this problem depends upon if you really have a first half of 1913 KW coil box or something else? The original KW coils used the first half 1913 KW wood boxbox were larger (see photo) than later standard sized KW coils. As Steve (got10carz) indicated you have to make shims to go ...

Ron Patterson

Looking to buy small or large stashes of used rebuildable Model T Ford ignition coils. I have customers who want rebuilt coils, but have no cores. We have adjusted upward our buying price and I will buy your used coils outright for cash, trade for rebuilt coils or take your extras as full or partial...

Ron Patterson

Notice that the print for Ford Factory Number T-625 indicates the magnet clamp screw was manufactured from "S Brass"

Ron Patterson

Until someone shows me the fixture for reaming OR boring the new drum bushings on a lathe while indexing the cutting tools to the gear pitch circle I am not convinced.
Can someone show me this fixture?
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

NV Bob
Indexed to what??
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

Michael
Firewall subassemblies being prepared to go down ramp the the final vehicle assembliy line.
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

I am no fan of sanding the magnets. They may not be fully cracked through the metal. Bradley Magnets 002.JPG Cracked Magnet 005.JPG Cracked Magnet-2.jpg Hold each magnet at the vee end between your thumb and forefinger. Rap the end of the magnet on the anvil of your vise and don't be bashful about i...

Ron Patterson

Looks like "Wayback Machine" requires some payment to see the items to support the cost of their site?
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

Hard Maple

Ron Patterson

Dave You might want to consider finding someone who has a Dearborn Model T ford transmission drum bushing reamer. and know how to use it. DSCN2006.JPG The benefit is the drums are indexed to the newly installed gear pitch circle to ream the new bushings. And if you think about what is going on insdi...

Ron Patterson

Looking to buy large or small stashes of used rebuildable Model T Ford ignition coils. I will buy your used coils outright for cash, trade cores for rebuilt coils or take your extras cores as full or partial payment. The more coils you have the better this works. If the quantity is right, I will als...

Ron Patterson

Five Rebuilt Ford Script Coils.JPG Have your ignition coils rebuilt by someone with over thirty years’ experience. I have expanded the window to accommodate rebuilt coils as a Christmas gift. Coils received in my shop between December 15, 2021 and January 31, 2022 will enjoy the benefit of free Pri...

Ron Patterson

Original Ford Model T Battery cables were 1/0 guage.
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

John
No knives, just the facts.
As has been observed in the past multiple times on this forum, this type coil tester has no provision to see the time and space relationship of the coil spark output. That feature is critical to Model T Ford coil point operation.
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

Oops wrong place for my response.

Ron Patterson

John
No knives, just the facts.
As has been observed in the past multiple times on this forum, this type coil tester has no provision to see the time and space relationship of the coil spark output. That feature is critical to Model T Ford coil point operation.
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

Interesting to note the Patent application date was March 3, 1908 and the patent rights were assigned by Huff to Henry Ford Detroit Michigan.
The final Patent rights were granted by USPTO on July 18, 1913.
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

Study this diagram and it will help explain why hand starting on the magneto is easier with the spark lever advanced a bit.
Also here is the Ford recommended starting instructions for early Model T's that had no battery.

Ron Patterson

Being to top.

Ron Patterson

Five Rebuilt Ford Script Coils.JPG Have your ignition coils rebuilt by someone with over thirty years’ experience. I have expanded the window to accomodate rebuilt coils as a Christmas gift. Coils received in my shop between December 15, 2021 and January 31, 2022 will enjoy the benefit of free Prio...

Ron Patterson

Five Rebuilt Ford Script Coils.JPG Have your Model T Ford ignition coils rebuilt by someone with over thirty years’ experience. Coils received in my shop between December 15, 2021 and January 31, 2022 will enjoy the benefit of free Priority Mail return shipping to USA addresses. If you have questio...

Ron Patterson

Leander Sounds to me like one of the newly made BXXXX Cp. coils made in Mexico. Many contain Metalized Mylar capacitors which are incorrect type and exhibit excessive arching at the contact points. If so, will fail quickly. Get your money back and order a rebuilt coil from Lang's Old Car Parts. Ron ...

Ron Patterson

CrandalJ The information Frank Brandi provided will help you to determine what you actually have: a reverse currewnt cutout OR Voltage Regulator. I thought a lot about your problem today and I would like to talk to you. Call 231-348-5085 If you have a cutout and no voltage at the generator terminal ...

Ron Patterson

Crandalj
That is not "bad", the generator has a very low internal resistance to the case ground.
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

Crandalj STOP! Does your car have a reverse current relay type cutout or Fun Projets Voltage regulaor? You need to find out the answer to this before you start trouble shooting. If you "flash" a generator that is using a Voltager Regulator you will be lighting a match to a $75 VR and you wont be abl...

Ron Patterson

NY John T I don't think the cutout screw touching the generator case (ground) caused your problem at all. Your cutout appears to have the correct 5/16 length screw which was selected to prevent ecaxtly that from happening. If as you suggested that the yellow wire connected to the cutout bat terminal...

Ron Patterson

Good luck Robert.
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

Here is a photo of Randall's reproduction switch plate.

Ron Patterson

Jerry Van
My wifes family comes from Cross Village and i know it well.
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

The coils have been spoken for.
One hour and eleven minutes!
Thanks, MTFCA Classifieds and John K. .

Ron Patterson

Ready to ship for Christmas, five rebuilt Ford Script Model T Ford ignition coils.
Price $275 US Postal Service Priority Mail shipping included.
If interested please send me a email. modeltcoils(at)windstream(dot)net

Ron Patterson

Looking to buy large stashes of used and rebuildable Model T Ford ignition coils. I have customers who want rebuilt coils, but have no cores. I will buy your used coils outright for cash, trade for rebuilt coils or take your extras as full or partial payment. The more coils you have the better this ...

Ron Patterson

Oops, I see you tried another set of coils.

Ron Patterson

A Model T Ford that will not run correctly on the Magneto and will run correctly on the Battery is the classic symptom of improperly adjusted ignition coils. Try the easy things first, then check the Magneto output.
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

Doug Those wire sizes numbers look pretty close. Only dealing with Model T electricity, early on I learned that Ford had a propreiatary standard for defining wire sizes for all Model T electrical parts. I found this while researching wiring looms. looking elsewhere In factory documentation Ford did ...

Ron Patterson

Lyndon Interesting photos. Some types of fence chargers coils I have never seen. I have seen many of the test tube and marble type. The main function of each of these contraptions added to the Model T Ford ignition coil is to reduce the duty cycle of the electrical circuit and therby make the coil b...

Ron Patterson

Art
The correct operate voltage for the reverse current cutout is 7.2 volts which is the charging voltge for a 6 Volt battey.
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

Micaela Welcome aboard. If you would like to learn more about different sociocultural Model T contexts go to a resource very near to you; "The Bruce McCalley Memorial Library and Research Center" at MTFCA HQ in Richmond Indiana. Forty years ago I set out to collect every known Ford related book I co...

Ron Patterson

Scott The Model T Ford generator is a "third brush regulation type, but you already knew that. It was the most inexpensive type generator available at the time and probably why Ford (actually Fred Allison in the Ford electrical engineering department who developed the FA Starting and Lighting System...

Ron Patterson

You can obtain dimensional drawings of the ignition coil from the Benson Ford Research Center in Dearborn.
Ford made Trembler coil boxes were made of Hard Maple.

Ron Patterson

Those Capacitors in Jason's "new" coils are made by Michicon and are metalized Mylar type constructions with a dV/dT rating less than 75 volts/microsecond and are entirely unsuitable for use in a Model T For ignition coil for the reasons I described earlier in this thread.
Ron Patterson

Ron Patterson

Here is my theory how this all unfolded during of the original development of the Model T Ford. If one steps back and looks at the Model T's design in detail it becomes appartant that several considerations came into play. First, they had to find the place where the magneto current pulses (that were...

Ron Patterson

If the initial timing is correctly set at 15 degrees ATDC the coils will start to buzz when the crank pin is pointing to at 9:30 and 3:30.

Ron Patterson

Ford factory setting for Model T initial timing was 15 degrees ATDC.

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