OT - Steam Cars

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Rich Eagle
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OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:02 pm

I am pleased to see the OT section added to the forum. Several members have great steam car photos and some even own a steam car. There were many running around in the Model T days. They are certainly pertainant to the history of the Model T.
I'll start with three large Whites. I somehow got to ride in each of these. The first two were restored by Richard Hemple from Emmett, ID. They were sold to 2 fellows in Boise and now are in Jay Leno's collection.
Wht40HP08K.jpg
1908 40 H.P. Model K
Wht40HP09M2.jpg
1909 40 H.P. Model M
Wht40HP09M.jpg
1909 40 H.P. Model M
If the K was less than 40 H.P. someone correct me.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by CudaMan » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:21 am

Mark Strange
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)

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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:07 pm

Thanks Mark. That would make the Model K a 30 H.P. It sure seems as big as the model Ms.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:18 pm

Here are some details of the magnificent 30 HP White.
30HPWhite.jpg
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:31 am

Stanley made the coffin nose in 10 and 20 HP versions. Their mountain wagon was 30 HP and some of those boilers were used in cars I believe. Here are 3 of the 10 HP cars.
1910Stnly.jpg
A 1910 touring.
1911-l62Rnbt.jpg
We rode in this 1911 Model 62 Runabout one morning. Joy borrowed an antique dress to wear as all participants dressed in period costumes. The dress began disintegrating a few miles into the trip. She finished the ride in the drivers duster.
1914-606-Rdstr.jpg
I watched the speedometer approach 70 mph in this car. It is a 1914 606 Roadster. Pumps and plumbing are accessed under the seat.
Even these smaller Stanleys can outrun a model T while the steam holds out. Steering and stopping is not much better. Driving requires constantly looking for the next water stop. Water mileage is poorer than fuel mileage.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:26 am

I am relying on a 35 year old memory and some tour book info for these descriptions. Here are two 1913 model 65 10 HP Touring cars.
13Mod65-10HP.jpg
The 20 HP were a popular cars. These are 1910 Model 70 cars except the one at lower left. It is a 1913 Model 76.
Stanleys.jpg
I am riding in the back of the lower right car with my 16mm movie camera.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Duey_C » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:55 pm

Fantastic! Thanks for sharing these.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Walter Higgins » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:41 am

Rich Eagle wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:31 am
Stanley made the coffin nose in 10 and 20 HP versions. Their mountain wagon was 30 HP and some of those boilers were used in cars I believe.
Models K, M, (I think some others) and the 80-series cars also used 30 HP engines, not just the boilers. A desirable upgrade today is to fit a 30 HP boiler into a 20 HP car to increase the reserve capacity.


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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Bingham » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:15 pm

I have always loved steam from afar. I think the first encounter I had was when Rich and I and some friends were able to see the Harrah Collection. That was back in 1964 if I remember correctly. We were able to see the restoration shops where craftsmen were performing restorations on a number of cars. I don't recall the make or model (I think it was a White) but a completed chassis was being test-driven in the shop area, and it was magical to see it glide silently along . . . about 30 years later, the owner of a 1910 White was kind enough to give me a "full guided tour" as we were "neighbors" at a car show in Utah. I once had the opportunity to crawl all over a Doble . . . nothing less than wonderful. Are all "steam guys" that kind and engaging ? Or have I just been lucky ?
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by John Warren » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:57 pm

The won was willy white! :lol: I have read that the the Stanley went one hundred and ninety seven!!! miles an hour in 1907. As I recall they figured it would have easily made 200 mph had the car not became air born and took off like a flying pancake and put poor Fred in the hospital. Love the steam cars. Thanks
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by StanleyRegister » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:55 pm

Unfortunately the 197 was an exaggeration that Fred fell into in his later years. In the 1960s, F. E. Stanley's son Ray revisited his father's notes of the event, and considered the technical progress that had been made between the 1906 record of 127.66 mph, and the 1907 attempt. That scholarship suggested that the car was traveling about 150 mph at the time of the crash. Still an astonishing figure for something that was mostly wood and canvas.


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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Ken Findlay » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:10 am

P1010035.JPG
Rich. Good post. Especially when I see one of my cars pictured on it. The 1911 green model 62 roadster belonged to Vern Wellburn at the time you had a ride in it. Vern was a long time member of our car club in Vancouver BC. I first saw Vern driving the Stanley in 1966 when we were on a 800 mile tour around the province. I was 14 then and Mom and Dad took the whole family on that tour in their 1927 Auburn. About 15 years ago Vern started teaching my son how to start, drive and maintain the Stanley. They went on a number of tours and Dan got to know the car well. Vern died about 7 years ago. The estate gave us first chance at the Stanley. Couldn't say no. Since then we've toured it about 2000 miles. All the history and owners are known from day one. We are the 8th owner! I could go on forever but...
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:26 am

Thanks Ken. I remember chatting with you about the car on an earlier post. I was glad to hear the car went to a good home. The ride I spoke of was when Vern's father was still with us. He was in the passenger seat coaching Vern on the driving. Since we were in the back seat it may have been a different car or with a seat added on the back.
In an interview with Fred Marriott he described surviving the indecent. (Perhaps in the 60s). He said one eye had come out of it's socket and a doctor who was first to reach the crash scene put it back in place. "That is my best eye now" he said.
I'm pretty sure it was a White Rich. That was my first encounter and I have marveled at that silent movement ever since. Speaking of Dobles I will offer this set of photos. In 1985 4 of the remaining 5 (reportedly) remaining, operational Dobles attended the Steam Car Tour in Idaho. I am not sure the years are correctly stated.
Dobles.jpg
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:13 am

Questioning my faulty memory I checked another photo book and found this. Does that seat pop up when needed? I believe it is the same car and this shows Vern driving and his Father in the back seat. This would have been in McCall Idaho in 1982. As we were on 4 or more steam tours and half a dozen 1&2 cylinder tours where steam cars participated the information here may have some faults.
VernSt.jpg
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by StanleyRegister » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:52 am

Thanks for all those great steam tour photos, Rich. I'm the roster keeper for Stanleys, found online at http://www.StanleyRegister.net . Several of these cars can be identified, although it's tough - many of them look very similar.

Starting at the top -
1. Red 1910 10hp - can't figure this one out. You can see a tantalizing plate in the upper photo that says "OWNED BY", but I can't make out the name. I'd like to nail this one down if possible.
2. Ken Findlay's #5814 - see this car's excellent website at https://dan-findlay.squarespace.com .
3. Pat Farrell's 1914 Model 606 #7480. A very fast car that he drives like crazy.
4. I think the green car is 1913 Model 65 #7204, owned by my friend Rob in Colorado. This car participated in a highly-publicized "steam vs. gas race" with a Stoddard-Dayton, from Chicago to New York, in 1951.
5. The blue car with red undercarriage is 1913 Model 77 (20hp) #6917.
6. Upper left - this is a "Model 85", a 30hp 7-passenger car designed in the late '80s by Don Bourdon and Brent Campbell. The factory never made a car like this - Don and Brent wanted a 30hp car with lots of power for passengers and long-distance touring, with the character of the open wooden body. They each built one, and have put over 40,000 miles on each one, reliability tours, Red Rocks, etc. The two cars look almost identical, but I think this is Brent's "Big Green," #5576.
7. Upper right - there's a flock of red Model 70s around, most constructed by Carl Amsley in PA and Loren Burch in California. I can't tell which one this is.
8. Middle - this is a 20hp Model 71, with the slinky 4-passenger body. Stanley didn't even call it a touring car, but a "four-passenger roadster." This one was probably owned by Mike Simpson at the time - I don't know its background or serial #.
9. Bottom left - this is 1913 Model 76 (20hp) #6447.
10. Bottom right - there are an awful lot of Stanleys that look like this. :-) It may be 1910 Model 70 #5600, owned at the time by Craig Craddock or Ken Foster.

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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:32 pm

Thanks for the corrections and additions. I hesitated to put names partly to avoid more errors. I will add:
1. Robert Edwards
3. Yes it was a crazy ride and nearly terrifying.
4. Rob Reilly I believe.
6. If that is the 30HP it was Ole Vikre and Brent Campbell. Brent let me drive it a couple miles hoping I would get into steam. That was exciting and terrifying also.
7. Allen Blazick I believe. Carl Amesly was on the 1982 HCCA tour in McCall, ID. He threatened me not to film his swagging of boiler tubes in the motel parking lot. He had run out of water and it was embarrassing to him.
8. Yes Mike Simpson. What a nice guy.
9. Harry Farrar from Wy.
10.Definitely Craig and Linda. Loren Burch had one there just like it.
The day I rode in the 40 HP White Loren passed us in his Stanley like we were standing still. Probably in excess of 60 mph. Ron gave the White some more throttle and we were gaining on Loren quickly. Rena put her hand on Ron's arm and asked "Your'e not going to race him?"
Ron said "No" and let back the throttle to a safer speed. I have no doubt the White would have reached 75 or 80 if needed. We did have to put the top down as it had torn a little on that run.
1908H.jpg
The above is Con Fletcher's 1908 Model H 20 HP.
1909R.jpg
Trailered is Davin Fledmans 1909 Model R 20 HP after scorching his boiler. The fishing gear is Allen Blazick's.
These photos were taken on the 1988 Steam Car Tour in Idaho. A friend, Joy and I hauled luggage as it was a progressive tour of Sun Valley, Stanley, Challis and Arco. Finally the drive back to Sun Valley. In exchange for carrying baggage we were treated to rides in steamers. One of us would drive the pickup of luggage and the other two got to sample a different steam car each day. They were as nice people as you would meet anywhere just like the folks who tour in Model Ts. We also took pictures and movies for them as they were constantly fiddling with valves, pumps and looking for water.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by StanleyRegister » Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:49 pm

Very cool, thanks! I'll put these photos in a folder for that tour. Leno has that Model R now. Yeah, it would have been something to see that 40hp White stretch its legs. When a steamer is working well you get a drive like no other.

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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:08 pm

Thanks for the confirmation on the Model R. I had thought it was the same car when I read an article on it but as you say many look just alike. Also thanks for the link to your Register site. Many of us enjoy the steam cars.
And thanks for your research and time.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Ken Findlay » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:19 am

Rich
The rear seat on the our Stanley was permanently attached to the fuel tank cover. The cover is hinged and you lift it to get access. Vern had removed that seat years ago. 2 main problems with it. You can't have the roof down if someone is sitting there. I think the main reason though is that the 10hp Stanley has a lot more poop when there's not a 3rd person on board. Since we've owned it, we've left the seat off and added an extra water tank ahead of the seat. That's increased our driving range to around 50 miles before we need water. On the flat it likes to cruise at 40 mph all day long.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:31 am

That is interesting Ken. I was worried about remembering the seat.
Since we mentioned Carl Amsley I should post this photo of the 1909 Model U 20 HP he drove on the 1982 tour. I wish I had a better camera in those days.
1909MdlU.jpg
I had no idea how involved he, the Bordon's and others were in the hobby at the time. What a treat to have been around them.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:06 am

Later Stanleys wore a condenser out front like the White steamers. These are both 1919 cars, Mr. Hix's 735 upper photo and Mr. Moore's 735B lower.
Stanley735.jpg
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:04 am

One of the most magnificent Whites is this 1906 Model F 18 Hp Touring. There are so many features that are preserved and original.
Wht190615HPMdlF.jpg
This 1908 is a delightfull Model L 20 HP.
Wht1908l20HP.jpg
These next two are 1910 Model O-O 20 HP cars
Wht1910mdlO-O20HP.jpg
1910-O-O-20HP.jpg
White had started building gasoline cars and trucks and the last Steam cars were built in 1911.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by dlmyers » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:08 am

white steam cars 2 c ac.jpg
I have posted this 1908 photo before. My maternal grandfather is at the wheel of the car on the left.

Pop Steele 3.jpg
Pop Steele 2.jpg

Is this an early Locomobile or something else?
These unlabeled photos were among my grandfather's belongings.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:33 pm

It looks like a Locomobile. They bought the Stanley rights so it might be a Stanley. Also, Mobile and others were so very similar. 1901 or thereabouts.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:04 pm

The first Steam Cars like the Gas Cars look much like the horse drawn buggies of the day. A 1901 Moline and a 1901 White are shown here.
01Mobile-01White.jpg
These are 1901 Locomobiles here. They look rather dainty but can scoot right along while they have steam.
Loco1901.jpg
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by CudaMan » Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:06 pm

FYI, there is a White steam car engine currently for sale on the Steam Car Network site.

https://www.steamcarnetwork.com/for-sale
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:52 pm

Thanks for the link to that site. There is a lot of fun to see there.
I'm still enjoying the steam literature you passed on to me Mark.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:41 am

The Stanley Mountain Wagons are huge and wonderful. These are a 1912 and a 1916 Model 826 Mountain Wagon.
StnlyMntnWgn.jpg
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Steve Jelf » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:55 am

IMG_2073 copy.JPG
1910 Stanley at the 2017 OCF.

IMG_2118.JPG
Joe Fedullo's 1923 Stanley. It burns kerosene. I told Joe it was the first car I'd ever ridden in that smelled like a lamp.

IMG_2014 copy.JPG
Another view of Joe's Stanley.

IMG_1698 copy.JPG
1901 Locomobile at the 2018 OCF.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring

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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:35 am

Thanks Steve. Those are great photos. Riding in a car that is on fire is always fun.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by StanleyRegister » Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:25 pm

Joe's car is probably one of the best late condensing Stanleys out there. It was formerly owned by a meticulous machinist, who specialized in Stanley work, named John Packard.

The lower Mountain Wagon is in Washington state, still owned by the guy who restored it from this:
1916 Stanley model 825 mountain wagon.jpg
1916 Stanley model 825 mountain wagon.jpg (45.97 KiB) Viewed 24207 times
Same guy who owns the scary blue 10hp roadster from several posts back.

There are quite a few Mountain Wagons like the upper one, but I suspect it's one on Orcas Island in Washington.

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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:18 am

The first time I saw "the scary blue 10hp roadster" it was black with Model T wheels on it. Pat was just getting his feet wet but he certainly learned fast. Those steam guys are amazing and just fun to be around.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by StanleyRegister » Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:09 pm

Now he's probably one of the top 5 drivers in terms of total miles in a Stanley.

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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:29 pm

I had the pleasure to see this transference of a new body at a meet in Colorado in 1990. It had been shipped atop a Stanley Mountain Wagon from California to it's new owner. It appears to be a 1908 Stanley Model H Gentleman's Speedy Roadster like the one shown at top. The bare wood is stunning to see before it gets covered by it's wonderful colors. The craftsmanship and beauty of these things always inspires me.
StnlyWood2.jpg
StnlyWood1.jpg
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Sat Apr 06, 2019 4:10 pm

Another nice original White is this 1909 Model 'O' 20 HP Touring car. Similar to the wonderful '06 Model F above it wears it's original green paint with some beautiful aging by mother nature. I had ridden with Ryan in his Fathers Green 40 HP car (2nd from the top of this thread) and toured with him before. How great it was to see his own Steamer on this tour in 2001. These photos were taken on Sept 10th that year, the day before the 9/11 attack. A Horseless Carriage tour through Yellowstone was the event.
R_White1.jpg
R_White2.jpg
I am always amazed at the beauty in these things and that people are having the fun of driving and showing them.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:19 am

This popped up immediately after seeing Steve's hesitant dog video. Since it is the second White Steamer from the top in this thread I thought I'd link it. It is the one Dick Hemple built. Supposedly it was Webb Jay's personal car. Sold to Ron Thurber in the 80S? and to Jay Leno more recently. I rode in it a few times and was pleased to see it here. You can find many other steam videos if you look.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBU8IPyUyTk
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by RalphS in NE Oregon » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:04 pm

Rich, thanks for starting this thread - it is really interesting. I was at that steam car tour in Sun Valley in 1988 and remember seeing many of those cars. It was my first, and only, occasion to be around a bunch of steam cars. I will always remember the first nite when they all came back to the motel from dinner at a restaurant. They arrived just at dusk with gas lights on and they all blew off their steam in the parking lot. Quite a sight and I wish I had a video with sound of it. I also remember how the Stanley burners whined when they were pulling a grade. And how most of the Stanleys had burned paint on their hoods, which didn't seem to bother the owners any. I also decided that Stanleys were mainly steam powered tool boxes.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:11 pm

Thanks for mentioning those things Ralph. The sounds and smells are incredible things the pictures don't show. The activity of the owners was a novelty too. Lighting pilots, pumping water and air and constantly turning valves here and there. Little puddles of thick oil and water dotted the parking lot and even little tufts of asbestos where work had been done told some story I'm sure.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Wed May 01, 2019 1:22 pm

Some of the shenanigans that go on in the parking lot of a Steam Car Tour include removing the burner to fine tune things or get at other parts. This was even before the first day's drive. The upper right photo shows the many holes for the fuel to come through and heat the boiler. Bottom left shows the ends of the fire tubes swaged tight to the boiler bottom plate.
LocoGasp2.jpg
LocoGasp1.jpg
Richard Gasparotti was another one of those wonderful Steam Characters. Shown above in his 1901 Locomobile. One of his favorite stories told of him working on the car in his garage when the Postman dropped by. "Hey, a guy on my route has one just like that" he said. How many times have we heard that old line and it turns out to be something completely different. Still, Dick asked some questions and tracked down a 1900 Locomobile in all it's original glory with fantastic patina. He was able to purchase it and had it on display in the Lobby of the 1996 Tour these photos were taken on.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Burger in Spokane » Wed May 01, 2019 10:01 pm

Going sideways a hair, ... this talk about Locomobiles, ... the man that built my house,
and most up and down the street and nearby streets, held back a double lot about six up
from mine, where he built a home for himself and his cars. The story his kids told me was
that his mother owned this area and after the war, he got discharged, came home, and put
in the streets, built the houses, etc., until he had enough money to build his own, free and
clear. He liked old cars, and had quite a few. He died the year I moved to the neighbothood,
so we never met. But I watched a curious assortment of old iron get randomly hauled away
as the family sold the cars. One of his sons kept a Locomobile from his dad's collection for
himself. It is not a steam car. A GIANT sedan. 28 or 29. What a grand, formal beast of a
car ! It remains in an unrestored/nice driver condition. A very impressive car. 👍
More people are doing it today than ever before !

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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Fri May 03, 2019 4:58 pm

Those gasoline Locomobiles really were monsters especially compared to the steam ones. That would have been one of the last ones.
While I have the photos out I thought these detail shots of Dick's 1900 were particularly wonderful. (or maybe it's just the NyQuil).
LocoPlus.jpg
The tiller steering, turned spindles for the seat and the Bevin "warning" bell were treats for me.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Sun May 19, 2019 9:05 am

A look at the Stanley dash shows quite a difference from a Model T or other gas car. Gauges and valves are continually checked and adjusted. Just above the floorboad at left is the "winker" to visibly indicate lubricating oil is flowing to the engine.
StanleyDash.jpg
The White has it's oiler on the dash where a T's coil box might be. Both cars have a bicycle lamp to read gauges for night driving which definitely would be an adventure of it's own. The horn bulb is mounted on the floor as the hands may be too busy to honk.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:28 am

Some other photos of the 1908 30 HP Touring car.
SteamW8x2.jpg
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by 2slow » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:35 pm

I had the Stanley out yesterday. I switched from Kerosene to a 50/50 mix of diesel and gasoline for the main fuel and it seemed to like it better. Burner howled less and I didn't have one tube fire all day. If the weather holds and I can get out of work early enough I think I am going to steam it up again tomorrow and try a different burner jet size. If you are near Milford, MI and want to go for a ride, let me know.

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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by CudaMan » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:27 pm

There is a 30 issue collection of "Light Steam Power" for sale on Ebay right now. I would jump on it, but I already have all of those issues.

I have no connection to the listing or the seller. :)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Light-steam-po ... SwOSddAsqB
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:51 am

I see the listing ended Jun 24, 2019 with no bidders. It's a shame. I enjoy the ones I have but didn't bid on them. There are some marvelous bits of info in them.

I was remembering the crisp cool mornings on steam tours. Everyone is up early firing up and tweaking their machines. Puddles everywhere and the smell of diesel. Hoses and propane torches are in abundance.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by CudaMan » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:08 pm

I see that The collection of 30 "Light Steam Power" magazines has been relisted on Ebay.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:35 am

I keep looking at them. The postage is $66.80 from Australia. Still 30 of them for $10 is cheap.

I ran across these today. (Steam Tour Idaho 1988) A quiet road in the Sawtooth Mountains. Feldman and Coombs in a car Mr. Leno is carring for now.
Stmr01.jpg
Resting up at the motel.
Stmr02.jpg
Picnic time at Creators of the Moon.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by CudaMan » Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:07 pm

Richard, send the seller a note with an offer, maybe he'll take it - you never know until you ask! :)
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:26 am

There were 6 bidders yesterday and now they are gone. this one is new.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Lot-of ... SwmxVcbz1N
At least they are getting circulated.
I enjoy mine but don't have much more room for them.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:56 pm

This video is of a 1924 Brooks Steam car made in Canada.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_6CChTSt2Y
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Stanley Mountain Wagons

Post by FreighTer Jim » Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:11 pm

Pat Farrell sold his Stanley Mountain Wagon last year.

I know because I transported it down to Portland DMV for inspection & then back up to Anacortes, WA.

57A33940-9010-4234-99F9-B0DB51D6AE36.jpeg


It is one of four different Stanley Mountain Wagons I have transported to date - no one I know of can claim that honor.


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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:10 pm

That must be a record. I would have hauled it on my wife's Focus if I could. I ran trouble vehicle and coffee stop for the KISS (keep it simple stupid) Tour some years ago. The plan was to take anyone having trouble back to their own trailer. Pat's crankcase shattered and he was walking the road picking up what pieces he could find. He said he could weld it back together if he could find them all.
Those Mountain Wagons are amazing.
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These were taken an hour before the set back.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by david_dewey » Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:05 pm

Hi Rich,
Took me a few days to get to a wifi so I could look at the Brooks. Time for a tale of woe--that fortunately for me was/is only a tale of disappointment.
Back about 1985 my neighbor had a church friend from Canada who told me about two steam cars in a barn, a Stanley and a Brooks, and they were available because the barn was starting to fall down. Well, I arranged for drivers, trucks, trailers for this great steam car recovery. But as things got closer to the date, the story started changing. I'm not saying the guy was a con artist, but he did have a mental illness that caused him to create incredible stories.p
So about a year later we go to the World's Fair, Expo '86, mostly to attend the great steam Expo held in conjunction with it, primarily trains. One of my Brother's friends was the souvenir vendor for the Steam Expo so we had a place to stay and special entrance too. On the weekend we were there was also the steam car gathering--Pat was there with his wonderful blue roadster (fun to read your posts about the steam car meets, as I know most of the names, although it has been at least a decade since I was active with them) AND a Blue Brooks! This Brooks was from the same area as the one that was going to be "Mine." So now I knew where the guy got most of the information for his story (he had a lot of "facts" correct, which is what made his story believable at first). I related the story to the real owner, and he was, fortunately, somewhat amused by the story.
Watching this guy's videos is a bit frustrating--the man doesn't know steam, and should have done a lot more research before just putting some air to it to "see if it will go." Not only is the camera work frustrating, listening to him call it a "Steam Generator" as he doesn't think it is a boiler. Sorry son, it IS a boiler, water tube type operating at about 300 pounds-the guy sees the steam gauge goes to 600, which tells me (and anyone else who has been around steam) that the usual pressure is 300.
Brooks bodies were usually fabric bodies, which would likely explain the lack of a body on this one. Looks like he's found a low-mileage car though,the piston rods don't look scored, or even pitted, Oh I'd love to get my hands on that car!! Ah well, I have enough projects already, get the Ts done David!
Thanks for posting this!
T'ake care,
David Dewey

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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:16 pm

It seems there are many leads that don't turn out for every one that does. An interesting story at least.
There was a 1925 Brooks Sedan on the 1994 Mount Vernon, Wa Steam Car tour From B. C. I can't find photos of it but took lots of video. Somehow I didn't pay enough attention to the condensing cars back then.
The video was a little tedious but it was fun to see the mechanicals.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:36 am

Well, I did find some snippets of the Brooks in my photos from that tour. That may be a fabric body. It has a "padded" look to my eyes. (lower left photo) I was intrigued by the original upholstery.
Brooks25_1.jpg
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Dan Haynes » Sun May 23, 2021 7:24 pm

Being a fan of them, about 40 years ago I looked at a Stanley with the intention of buying it. It was a 1923 Model 740 sedan. Not the most desirable one to be sure but, at least in the Polaroid photos the seller sent me, it had a good look (for a sedan). In person it was different. Everything on the car was loose. But, except for all the loose parts rattling; it was quiet but very sedate in its behavior. I was disappointed in the car and the seller was not inclined to take any offers but the full asking price, so I flew back across the country to California.

Nearly ten years after that, I got my first Stanley and one year to the day later, my second one. The first was beautiful, a 1918 735B touring. It is the model that looks like a 'teens Mercedes. I did a ton of work on it, dropped thousands of dollars putting in a new boiler and burner, having a new condenser made from scratch, upholstering the 7-pass car in black leather and painting the front of it. I had many pleasant years with it, but eventually it and its anniversary mate were eventually sold to make room for other cars.

I guess we always gravitate toward what our hearts want and I had been craving another Stanley. I was able to swing the 1913 Mountain Wagon in 2019, but some serious metal fatigue sidelined it while the big 30 hp engine is repaired (it is still on the injured players list). I'm really eager to get it steamed up again.

Last year I saw an ad on line for a barn-find Stanley sedan. Its sale was being handled by a car enthusiast for the late-owner's family. The car looked like it was in pretty good shape for being unrestored, like one of those cars you see that are in a state of arrested decay. Dents, scratches, rub-throughs are all generally ignored while it is made to look its best at its age; there is a lot to be said for that patina look. But I'm in a stage of getting rid of cars, not adding cars. The seller of this car is a friend of some years and we emailed back and forth, each of us telling the other he should buy the car to "save" the other from it. We exchanged a lot of "LOL" and "Ha ha" emails.

About a month ago out of the blue, he sent me another wild "BUY THIS THING" email. The price had been dropped with the approval of the family to a realistic level. But no, I said. I don't need any more projects. Unless... my friend would be interested in a trade? Speculating he could buy the car from the estate and trade for something I had, maybe? Like what? he asked. A 1925 Lincoln 4-passenger sport sedan, body by LeBaron? I sent a picture with it.

He was interested and soon we were discussing logistics of getting the cars to their new garages, which are on opposite coasts.

The "new" car is a 740 7-pass sedan like the one I had driven 40 years ago. It has wire wheels, a BiFlex front bumper, Sisson ball headlights and a 30 hp boiler and burner. The 30 hp boiler and burner, 50% bigger than the factory boiler for that car, should put a little more pep in her step.

This is truly one of those times when I am pretty sure I've lost my mind. The Lincoln is a low-mileage survivor, having sat in a dark basement for 40 years. It is such a good car. Good bye, old friend.
1925_Lincoln_L144BTouring_358ci_36_4HP_V-8_RearView.jpg
The Stanley hasn't run in 25 years and will need a lot before a fire can be lit in it. I'm sitting on my hands waiting for it to get here.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by TXGOAT2 » Sun May 23, 2021 7:52 pm

I wonder how much imnprovement in water mileage a condenser would offer as compared to exhausting directly to the atmosphere?


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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Dallas Landers » Sun May 23, 2021 8:24 pm

Very cool Dan. Keep us posted on the steamer.


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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Dan Haynes » Mon May 24, 2021 1:23 am

Pat -
If it is exhausting into the air (non-condensing), a Stanley uses about a gallon per mile. This varies with the size and weight of the car and the tightness of the engine but still, they get right around one mile per gallon. Condensing cars' water tanks hold 24 gallons while the earlier non-condensing car tanks held more. The Mountain Wagon holds 80 gallons.

So, imagine you're whooshing along in your post-1914 condensing car, but your condenser isn't hooked up, either to keep oil from the exhaust from getting pumped back into the boiler or maybe just make a showy steam cloud. Using a gallon a mile, at 60 mph you would be evaporating and losing a gallon per minute. At 30 mph, a gallon every two minutes. Your 24 gallons of water is not going to let you rest for long before you are forced to stop for more.

Now, here's a thing: if you're on an unfamiliar country road you will have no idea where the next available water might be, so maybe after 15 miles, you tell yourself, "The next house, watering trough or creek I see, I'll stop for water. Because after 15 miles, you only have enough left to go nine more miles. What if there are no houses and the next trickle of a creek isn't for 10 or 12 miles? I think every Stanley driver has at least once had his blood run cold in his veins when he hears the pump checks go silent because the tank went dry. So, under "normal" conditions, a driver is looking for water about every 20 minutes.

The condenser is nothing more than a radiator. The steam exhaust, after it leaves the engine, goes toward the front of the car through a feed water heater. This is a tube to contain the steam and running back and forth in the tube are copper water lines that are sending water to the boiler. The exhaust steam heats the water in the copper lines, raising the temperature of the water. In turn, the steam loses its blistering heat.

At the front of the car, the exhaust is piped to the top tank of the condenser (radiator). The steam is pushed down through the finned tubes of the condenser, just like water going down through the tubes in a gas car. Along the line, some or most of the steam will condense back into water (hot water), which runs by gravity from the bottom of the condenser, through another pipe, back to the water tank.

By driving conservatively in cool weather, the condenser works great and there isn't a show of steam under the car - because it is condensing nearly perfectly; most of the exhaust is captured and saved for reuse. Under these conditions a 24 gallon tank of water will last well over 100 miles and maybe 150 miles. Stanley claimed some ridiculous figure like 500 miles, but I could never get my other car to achieve anywhere near that.

But if you drive hard and the extra volume of exhaust steam crowds the condenser, or maybe the weather is just hot, the steam won't be totally condensed. You might retain some percentage of the water, but most of it is blown, still in the form of steam, all the way through the condenser to the water tank. To keep the tank from inflating like a balloon, there is a vent to let excess steam get away into the atmosphere. The early condensing cars' water tank vents are in the middle of the car, pointed straight down. Later cars' vents are piped out the back of the car, like a gas car's exhaust pipe.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by TXGOAT2 » Mon May 24, 2021 9:37 am

It looks like you'd need to pull a water trailer behind a Stanley in West Texas in summer. Finding clean water would be difficult to impossible. Stripping oil sludge out of condensed water would be another problem, I'd think. Marine steam plants used multiple expansion and condensers to save water and fuel, but they had a lot more room to carry equipment. It looks like extremely cold weather would complicate running a steam car.


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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by TXGOAT2 » Mon May 24, 2021 9:40 am

Perhaps Elon will develop a solar-Freon car.... ?


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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Dan Haynes » Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:46 pm

Well, it finally got here all the way from Pennsylvania. I can't say I'm disappointed in it, it, is just amazing.

The height is ridiculous, we had to take the back wheels off to get it out of the trailer because the coil spring for the rear door would have hit the roof of the car. It towers over the Lincoln, which is 6'6". We put it on dollies on the brake drums and let it roll out, then put the wheels back on. This is one interesting car, I'll tell you. It cost $57,75 when it was new, PLUS the wire wheels, BiFlex bumper and the Sisson ball headlights. It is so un-molested. It is from Chicago originally and was bought in the 1930s by Robert David Stayton. it was featured in a newspaper story in 1946. It was running until 1993 when the then-owner (not Stayton) dropped the burner for unknown reasons.

The burner is a Baker aftermarket job and they are known to really run a Stanley. It has a Cruban pilot, from Empire Steel in New York. And it has a 30 hp boiler hiding under the hood. That Baker burner is 30 hp size, too...

The car is said to have made the trip from Chicago to Stayton's childhood home in Kentucky, 450 miles, in 10 hours. Modern people will scoff at that, "So what?" they'll say. But 10 hours to cover 450 miles is a feat. Especially considering he would need at least two or three fuel stops and I'm guessing about 10 - 15 or more stops for water, depending how hot it was the day he did it.

I don't plan any real restoration. I have embraced the "They're only original once!" crowd. It needs a deep and thorough cleaning, some of the chassis items inspected and dealt with and a few repairs. Once it is clean, it will look a lot more respectable.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:09 am

NICE! I have been wondering how things were progressing? The Lincoln was/is a fantastic automobile! But that Stanley is incredible! A tough call. However I would say an interesting 'step up'!


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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Dan Haynes » Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:49 pm

three q rear pass.jpg
three quarter rear drivers.jpg
steering wheel 2.jpg
stanley chariot.jpg
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Burger in Spokane » Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:01 pm

Very impressive car, even amongst the high-falootin' car crowd !
The fact that it is latter-day unmolested makes it that much cooler.
I love this body. The ealy 20's "billiard table top" flat roof is SO cool !
Such a classic look. Long before I had the ability to do anything about
it, I stumbled onto an early 20's Packard town car that was "put away"
in 1947. Similar body styling. I still lust for that car.

Thanks for sharing. 👍
More people are doing it today than ever before !

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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:24 pm

What a treat to see. I think your choice to save it's original condition is a good one.
Thanks for posting it.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Dan Haynes » Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:18 am

It is a curious car. It's big, 130" wheelbase; and it's tall. There is a lot of headroom. But the driver's seat is terrible, the cushion is too soft and too low, the steering wheel is too low, the backrest has been reupholstered too thick, pushing the driver too close to the steering wheel.

In back, the jump seats are too close together, making them unsuitable for adults. The back seat is huge, but the cushion is too soft and it's like sitting on a pillow in a hole.

The visibility is unbeatable, there is glass everywhere. The top pane of the windshield opens out, but better then that, the bottom opens in, directing air down around the driver's feet. There is a cowl ventilator with a quick-action lever.

All four door windows are lowered with quick-action levers also. Their mechanisms are interesting; there is a balance spring in the door that supports most of the weight of the glass, making it nearly weightless. The levers, almost flippers, move a little less than one half of one turn, making the windows fly up and down. The window levers feel loose on the mechanism. But they are not. You might think the spring balance would let the window "ride up" or "jiggle down" as the car moves - but they don't. The looseness felt in the levers is actually the latching mechanism. The first inch or so of travel the lever makes in its arc releases the support arm, which is now free to go up or down as the passenger wishes. When the lever is released it goes back to the center position, which locks the glass, holding it wherever it is. That feature is a lot more complex and way cooler than I first realized.

The big rear side windows are fixed and do not go down, but the very back window does, allowing for great ventilation from the open windshield all the way through the car.

Passenger cars made by Stanley after 1914 were 20 hp with condensers and steel chassis frames. Cars previous to 1915 were non-condensing wood-framed and could be had in 10 hp, 20 hp and 30 hp. This sedan, being made in 1923, is a 20 hp car. It weighs 5,000 lbs. when it has all its tanks full (special cylinder oil, the crankcase oil, the pilot fuel in its private pressurized tank, the main fuel tank which is not pressurized and the main fuel pressure tank, which is pressurized. Then there is the water. The boiler usually holds about 12 to 15 gallons and the water tank another 25 gallons. All this fluid is heavy, but so are all those individual tanks and connecting piping systems.

The condenser is nothing more than a radiator, but with much bigger tubes to permit great volumes of steam to pass through them. It is so big and so dense I can't lift one anymore. When I was younger I could with a lot of effort. Now it's out of the question. The hood is so big and heavy, I cannot possibly lift it off or on by myself.

EVERYTHING on the car is so heavy. The rear axle would be at home under a truck, as would the front axle. Yet the car is 20 hp. Why did they not put 30 hp boilers and engines in all the cars after the introduction of the condenser in 1915? The only conclusion I can reach is the big displacement 30 hp engine would crowd too much steam exhaust through the condenser and the condensers had been added to comply with new laws regarding steam car exhaust obscuring vision of other motorists.

It is true, though, that steam horsepower is not calculated the same way gasoline engine horsepower is determined. Steam horsepower has to do with the number of pounds of water the system can evaporate in a given time. All I can tell you is 20 hp Stanleys will use about an eight-pound gallon of water per mile, which would take a minute, or a few seconds more, meaning the system would evaporate about 60 gallons of water, 480 lbs., per hour. But on a dyno, a Stanley 20 hp engine produces 678 ft lbs of torque and 167 horsepower. These values, if I am remembering them correctly, were taken with an industrial boiler, producing 450 psi steam at about 750 degrees, feeding a Stanley engine. The tests were conducted by Dr., Wendell Mason, a PhD in engineering or thermo dynamics or something, but an all-around smart guy.

So it isn't quite as hopeless as a 20 hp Model T engine trying to lug that 5,000 lb. sedan over hill and dale. The Stanley has no change of gears, the sedan is geared 1.5:1 and the 2-cylinder engine will push the car down the road. But here's the deal; you can go really fast in a Stanley or you can go really far in one. Few will take you far at high speed because the speed the car can maintain is limited by the evaporative capacity of the boiler. So a condensing Stanley might hit 70, but it has shot its wad doing it. If the speed run was begun with steam up on the pin at 500 psi, the pressure will likely be down to 300 or lower by the time 70, or anything approaching it, is reached. So Stanley owners get to know their car and settle in the speed it likes, one at which it can maintain 450 psi without dropping. This pressure will keep the steam hot, the boiler full and everyone happy.

If you unwisely run out all your steam and you are reduced to bumbling along the shoulder of the road going 15 mph with 100 psi, the steam being fed to the engine is no longer superheated and is now "wet steam". At slow car speeds with wide open throttle the engine gulps wet cold steam uncontrollably. Water, in the form of saturated steam, will drain your boiler of water at a rate the water pumps cannot replenish it.

But I can tell you this, one of the most fun things is to coast down a hill with the throttle closed and watching the pressure rise. Then, at the base of the next hill, open the throttle and fly up the grade to coast down the other side again. With no engine compression Stanleys coast really freely. You can make some speed coasting down a hill. Then shooting over the top of the next hill with wide-open throttle will foster the impression the car is stupendously fast and possesses limitless power. Can you imagine the fun you could have if you could coast down a hill in your Model T and find, when you are about to start climbing the next hill, your Model T had saved up power from coasting and it now has 80 or 90 hp available?
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Oldav8tor » Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:08 am

Thanks Dan - I enjoyed the description of your Stanley in action. Stanley owners certainly had to be in tune with their cars.....not like our "turn the key and go" cars today.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by StanleyRegister » Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:55 am

Dan, your condensing deficit idea is the best theory I've ever heard for the Stanley company's failure to increase the power of the later cars.


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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Dan Haynes » Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:34 pm

Kelly!
I had no idea you were a lurker here! Hey! I saw your car was getting a pretty good looking smoke bonnet finished; you will likely be lighting fires before long!
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by StanleyRegister » Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:50 pm

I don't hang around much, but a good friend pointed out your post.

I guess it was my turn again... When he decides to work on a job, he does get a lot done fast. That smoke bonnet & jacket are outstanding - maybe I'll just leave the hood off.


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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Dan Haynes » Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:40 pm

Never one to say no to a ridiculous addition to a car, we will see how the Stanley looks sporting the newest offering by
The Morsher House of Irresistible Goods.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Dan Haynes » Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:08 pm

I've had most of the cars in a rented warehouse for years and, while the place had good features, it was across the street from a waste transfer facility, so it always smelled like a dump. Even worse, right next door is a concrete recycling plant where old concrete is ground up and the grit, sand and gravel are put to new uses. This meant the cars were always covered in a fine layer of gritty dust.

From the "Good News/Bad News" Department came the notice I needed to vacate so the owner could downsize and put his stuff there (he had sold a much larger building he had occupied).

It was time to build and, now that it's done, I can move in. So here are the dirty cars caught in the act of their migration.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Dan Haynes » Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:11 pm

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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Dan Haynes » Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:15 pm

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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:46 pm

How nice for you it is ready to move in to. Is the Studebaker a '17? I stitched up a top for one of those. They are quite a car. So are the Stanley Mountain Wagons. I miss being around them.
It's good to see the pictures.
Enjoy the space while you have some. :D
Rich
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Dan Haynes » Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:50 am

It's filling up, Rich! I still have a couple of larger non-car items to move, but already space is very tight. I have a lot of shelf space and a lot of sorting to do, but the old space was 1,400 s.f. in a "T" shape, the garage is 1,200 s.f. in a 30x40 rectangle. I hoped because of the block shape it would fit better than it did in the T shape. I am out of room already.

The Studebaker is a 1915 Series 16. The Series 17 cars had a cool feature - you could turn the passenger's seat around to face the riders in the back seat. The Studebaker sixes are very roadworthy cars.

Video a passenger took from the back seat on Modoc Tour; except for the wind noise, the car is quiet as an electric motor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMYEkhGtPpg
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Sat Jul 16, 2022 11:34 pm

I notice an obituary for Pat Farrell of Steam Car Fame in the HCCA Gazette this month. Pat was as energetic a Steam Car lover as any I knew. He and his wife, Merrily, in their 1914 "coffin nose" model 606 Stanley Steamer seemed to run circles around the other cars on a tour.
Pat1.jpg
His 1916 Stanley Mountain Wagon was quite the monster itself.
Pat2.jpg
I was fortunate to get rides in both. The 606 got up to 65 mph on one scoot around the motel. 65 seems like a hundred in those little cars.
It was so nice to know Pat. He was a real gentleman and so considerate of others.
Those Steam Cars folks sure knew how to enjoy life.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Dan Haynes » Sun Jul 17, 2022 1:59 pm

Pat and Merrily are some of the finest humans I have had the pleasure of meeting in the car hobby. Pat was always generous with his time and knowledge. That man had skills and he was fireball of energy. Merrily is brilliant, funny and a perfect counterpoint for Pat.

When someone would pose a question on steam car forum boards, Pat would answer completely and thoroughly, often with accompanying photos, of his own learning experiences.

Yes, Rich, you are quite right about Pat and their 606! He had done some smartening-up of that car (a car of record with a long-documented history back to new) and it had no trouble with freeway speeds. He had done something, I forgot what, that really gave it some speed and he wanted to show me how much better it was. We were on a 1-1/2 lane twisty road that wasn't the ideal venue for a speed demonstration, but Pat was in Mr. Toad Mode. He wanted to show me his "cruise control"; how he hooked the throttle lever over the top of the quadrant, where it would stay and, in that position, he said the car would hold 70 mph "all day" on the freeway. But we weren't ON a freeway; we were bouncing and careening around on this little road when suddenly, at a bend, a big fat full size Cadillac came face to face with us. There was no stopping. Pat, without pausing his deeply technical narration of what he'd done to the car, whipped around the Cadillac, throwing up a clattering shower of dirt and gravel from the shoulder of the road.

Pat was a lover and collector of many eras of cars, but he was a true Dean of Steam.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:07 pm

Thanks Dan
He was quite a fellow indeed.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by david_dewey » Sat Jul 23, 2022 6:07 pm

I am so sad to hear of Pat's demise. While I get the Gazette, I missed the obit, now I have to find my issue.
Yes His Blue Roadster was/is an amazing car, so reliable. I believe he had a 30 horse boiler in it, accounting for its great performance.
He will be missed!!
T'ake care,
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:54 am

Missing these guys reminds me how lucky we are to have known them. I treasure the moments I have had with them.
On a Kiss Tour several years ago I ran the coffee stops and picked up stragglers at the rear to take them back to their tow rigs. While following 2 REOs we came across Pat searching the road for any piece of this of his Mountain Wagon's exploded aluminum crankcase. "If I can find all the pieces I can weld it back together." That shows the sort of craftsman he was. The lack of a trouble truck following along went with the "Keep It Simple, Stupid" theme of the tour. Each participant had the right trailer for their car and knew best how to load it.
Pat tried to be patient with me following the REOS at 20 or so miles an hour for the remainder of the tour. Merrily stayed back to keep an eye on the Stanley but it was torture for Pat to not get back sooner. This photo shows him at right offering sympathy and advice to the REO fellow.
Pat-REO.jpg
Despite his impatience we had the best conversation possible.
Pat and so many have shaped my enthusiasm and attitudes towards the hobby.
It's good to remember those times.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:31 pm

This is an intriguing photo of Mel Howell's 1909 Model M Pullman when it was found in 1958 on the Neveda desert. I can only imagine what it took to put it back together.
mel091.jpg
Here it is at a Murro Bay Tour.
Howwel.jpg
His son Nick sent me these photos of it. Nick runs the White Steam Car Registry I believe.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Dan Haynes » Wed Feb 15, 2023 5:46 pm

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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Thu Feb 16, 2023 1:09 pm

I was gleaning some pictures of the White engine for a painting. What we see as the upper part of the engine is a light-colored casing. I suspect it is aluminum. At any rate, it is an interesting assembly.
WhtStmRef.jpg
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Kaiser » Mon Feb 20, 2023 6:13 am

Looks like a cover for the insulation, top looks a casting, sides riveted. Nice machine!
When in trouble, do not fear, blame the second engineer ! 8-)
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:36 am

You are right, Leo. Mark Strange gifted me this Model "O" parts book. Upper left shows the wrap around cover with riveted ends. The cylinder is at right of it.
whitePrtz.jpg
It is fun to know more of these things as I try to paint them.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich P. Bingham » Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:21 pm

These parts are interesting to look at !

I had the opportunity to examine a Doble, it was not compelling to view its innards. The boiler under its hood looked like an inverted #5 wash tub with a single spark plug. The cylinders were at the rear axle - most of the "works" were concealed ! :lol:
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:32 pm

There aren't many opportunities to see a Doble. You were lucky. I took these photos that might be what you saw. The fellow working on it is Cal Tinkham of Harrah's fame.
Doblex1.jpg
Doblex2.jpg
These were taken at The Sun Valley Steam Tour in 1985. It is a 1930 Doble F-3. There were 4 of the remaining 5 running Dobles at that time. I mentioned them earlier in his thread with this photo.
download/file.php?id=9192&t=1
Jim Crank wrote "The Doble Steam Car" if anyone wants to know more.
These are the cylinders and rear axle on E-14. It is the red car in the photo of the 4 Dobles above.
https://www.stanleysteamers.com/photoal ... E14-sm.jpg
https://www.stanleysteamers.com/doble-E-14.htm
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich P. Bingham » Mon Feb 20, 2023 6:07 pm

Thanks Rich. Yes, the owner put the hood up on the driver's side, we didn't get to see the other side. We were allowed to crawl under the car to see the cylinders and the rear axle. I don't recall what year the car was. It was at a CCCA event in California in 1994.
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Tue Feb 21, 2023 3:33 pm

While I'm thinking Dobles, Rich, I'm wondering which one you saw. Do you remember what color it was?
A 1983 article by the new owner of the one I showed says it is the last complete Doble the factory built.
I mentioned Jim Crank. He claimed to have worked on 8 of the 15 known Dobles. On a whim, he arranged to buy the defunct Doble company name and what records were left.
Dick Hemple, from Emmett, ID, owned 1925 Doble E20. It had been owned by Howard Hughes and now is in Jay Leno's collection. We were fortunate to go on some tours where it attended.
Many of those fellows are gone now but being around them boosted my infatuation with old cars.
Thanks
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CudaMan
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by CudaMan » Tue Feb 21, 2023 3:40 pm

While we're talking Dobles and Jim Crank, check out Jim's two volume magnum opus on all aspects of Abner Doble and his steam cars. It was Jim's life's work and was completed and published after his passing. I bought a member's copy through the Steam Automobile Club of America and it's well worth the money, IMO. :)

https://tetraconsteambooks.wpcomstaging ... p524559166
Mark Strange
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)


Rich P. Bingham
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich P. Bingham » Tue Feb 21, 2023 6:34 pm

Rich, my dim remembry tells me the Doble we rubbed elbows with was a maroon roadster. Perhaps that may be a clue as to who owns it now, and the year it was made. It certainly was (is) a beautiful car.

What very little I know, it seems odd to me that the Doble didn't become more successful. Anything I've ever heard or read about them indicates they "solved" the basic objection to steam, i.e., an annoying delay to build a head of steam.
Get a horse !


Dan Haynes
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Dan Haynes » Tue Feb 21, 2023 6:57 pm

Hey! HEY! Watch those disparaging remarks, Rich! F.E. Stanley said the time spent raising steam could be put to good use by polishing the car! :D

The delay is mainly psychological. Once the pathways are cut in your neurons, there's nothing to it. Just like the difference in traveling speed between taking a modern car or a Model T - you make that allowance in your head while you are planning your trip. But I have to tell you, there are few more frustrating feelings than being already LATE and watching the needle on the steam gauge crawl like a minute hand - there is nothing you can do but suffer through it.
"The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it." -George Orwell


Rich P. Bingham
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich P. Bingham » Tue Feb 21, 2023 7:05 pm

:lol: Dan, no disparagement here, not EVER ! :lol: I only meant to point out that Dobles seemed to raise steam in an impressively short time. In another lifetime (or alternate universe) I would love to spend that time polishing my Stanley !! :lol: Alas, I can only dream, and admire from afar !
Last edited by Rich P. Bingham on Tue Feb 21, 2023 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Get a horse !

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Rich Eagle
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich Eagle » Tue Feb 21, 2023 7:05 pm

Good point, Dan.
It may be this one, Rich. It is in that last link above and the only maroon one I know of.
DobleRed copy.jpg
When did I do that?


Rich P. Bingham
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Re: OT - Steam Cars

Post by Rich P. Bingham » Tue Feb 21, 2023 7:08 pm

I believe it is, Rich. Shame in me for never taking pictures ! :oops:
Get a horse !

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