Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

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Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by tdump » Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:18 pm

Well the good friend of mine that helped me get started into Model T's back in the early 90's had this short dog truck for years.I have always wanted it but he would never price it to me. Even right before he died, I tried to get it and he didn't really want to get rid of it.
Well he was taken to the hospital and couldn't come home and later died in a nursing home back in may or june can't remember which, the hospital took his home,land and etc and alot of his stuff including a Pullford Model T just closed out on auction about a hour ago.
I figured it was time to #### or get off the pot so to speak and I bid on this thing wound up with it.
Best I can tell it is about a 1916 or so Republic truck,probably a 1 ton.
May be missing it's magneto.The chassis is cut short and the rear axle is bolted to the frame.
wheels are shot,fronts all but gone,has 39 ford wheels somehow attached to move it around.
I don't think the engine was stuck when he first brought it home but I would assume it is now.Online auction only, and had no idea who I was bidding against.

I may post more photos and such when I get it home this week.
Auction company only giving 2 short time windows for people to come get stuff and there is ALOT of stuff to be moved before I can even get to this. I also am supposed to be getting the peice of a cowl and model T axle and such that is leaning against it.
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republic.jpg
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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by Burger in Spokane » Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:20 pm

Almost looks showroom new !
More people are doing it today than ever before !

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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by Rich Eagle » Mon Jan 09, 2023 12:59 pm

I would like to see more of it. I had a friend who had 3 Republics. They were all different and he had one complete that ran for a while. I wish I had taken pictures.
It looks like fun.
Thanks
Rich
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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by Tadpole » Mon Jan 09, 2023 1:05 pm

Looks like you got the important stuff. Let your imagination run wild and I'm sure it will end up looking good!


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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by tdump » Mon Jan 09, 2023 1:53 pm

I will be getting it home in the next few days.
Attachments
KIMG0398[1].JPG
KIMG0399[1].JPG
KIMG0397[1].JPG
KIMG0395[1].JPG
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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by Rich P. Bingham » Mon Jan 09, 2023 2:18 pm

Thanks for the extra pics ! Glanced at the first single, went, "Meh." Now I'm falling in love with it !! It will be a lot of fun !
Last edited by Rich P. Bingham on Mon Jan 09, 2023 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Get a horse !

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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by Duey_C » Mon Jan 09, 2023 5:49 pm

You got it! That's fantastic!
Ooh, a Stromberg M- Carb too. Nice.
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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by TXGOAT2 » Mon Jan 09, 2023 6:13 pm

The bead in the hood looks a lot like some old Waukesha hoods. The engine may be a Waukesha. They were used in a number of early trucks.


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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by tdump » Wed Jan 11, 2023 6:34 pm

Well sadly,my buddy with the roll back called and said he got stuck trying to get to it,so it may be a week before I get it home. :(
But I must admit,us model T folks are spoiled.
I can not find much of anything about these trucks short of a couple vids on youtube, a few photocopies of advertised and My own post on Smokstak.
I thought sure 1 of the old truck websites would have info on them but so far,no dice.
So if any of you folks have any links to this type thing,I could use some reference material.
Mainly at the moment trying to learn which Magneto to fit it.
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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by Rich Eagle » Thu Jan 12, 2023 10:43 am

This one looks similar to yours:
http://jingletruck.com/1917-republic-tr ... 2911-22627
I'm not sure if you have seen it. I could post more but it might be what you have already seen.
Rich
When did I do that?


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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by TXGOAT2 » Thu Jan 12, 2023 11:46 am

I searched "Republic Motor Truck" via DuckDuckGo and got a lot of information, history, and pictures.


Republic Motor Truck

Alma Manufacturing Co.

Hercules Motor Truck

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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by Mark Nunn » Thu Jan 12, 2023 12:55 pm

This was taken in 1923 but I don't know the year of the truck. It is a Republic. I will keep searching for more.
Republic circa 1923.png
Republic circa 1923 2.png

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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by Rich Eagle » Thu Jan 12, 2023 1:07 pm

Here is an '18 that looks similar too.
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=68b14302 ... jay8&ntb=1
It looks like a good truck site.
When did I do that?

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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by Mark Nunn » Thu Jan 12, 2023 1:21 pm

At top is a photo from 1920 followed by photos from 1924 with 7 Republics in it.
Rep 1920.jpg
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Rep 1924.jpg
Rep 1924 2.jpg

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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by Rich Eagle » Thu Jan 12, 2023 4:06 pm

...and two Whites. They are different models. They have acetylene lights and a broken lens.
The plates are Nebraska in the last two photos.
I believe those Republics are a larger model.
Rich
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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by tdump » Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:04 pm

Well I finally got it home today, it has alot of issues. Left front spring is broke.
I did open the trans fill cap,it did not appear to be full of water ,still oily and "clean" same with rear end.
I can NOT find a dipstick or anything on the engine.
Thanks for the photos and ideas.
according to the numbers it is a 1 1/2 ton truck.
Has a Continental J4 I think, I need the American bosch magneto for it.IF it can be made to run.
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KIMG0418.JPG
KIMG0417.JPG
KIMG0415.JPG
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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by tdump » Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:52 am

Pulled the spark plugs and no water in the cylinders, looked dry,some old carbon and not pretty but not rusted up down in there what little I could see.
I have been reading on the web and there was a site that tells about vegetable oil and acetone for penetrating oil.
Since the engine seems stiff or stuck,I am thinking of trying this idea. Can't hurt,
https://www.engineeringforchange.org/ne ... ating-oil/
I think I will go 50-50 mix like the acetone and trans fluid trick.

I appreciate the photos you folks have posted.
I am kinda surprised at the lack of info out there on these trucks.At 1 time Republic was the largest truck builder in the world.
I still aint found a dipstick or way to check the oil on this engine :?
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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by TXGOAT2 » Sun Jan 15, 2023 9:36 am

Detroit Spring can make you a new pair of front springs.

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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by Rich Eagle » Sun Jan 15, 2023 10:10 am

I would think there are many parts out there that could be had. Posting it here and on Smokstak are a good start.
It's a fun thing to see.
Best of luck.
Rich
When did I do that?


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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by tdump » Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:39 pm

Yes sir,it is different than the run of the mill antique we see.
From what reading I have done, the company made 75,000 trucks total thru it's lifespan
and there was alot of different sizes and models.This thing is around a 100 years old .The fact it is cut short hurts it as it makes it more difficult than normal to restore.BUT the fact it was repurposed into a tractor is probably the only reason it is here at all.
a blessing and a curse both.
Thanks for the spring company name. When and if I live long enough to get to that point I will need to know where to get springs made.
I have found auction listings of old truck frames reasonable but WAY off from me and old listings which means that stuff is hopefully saved or being used and not scraped.
I have wanted this thing for years, and when my friend died My primary goal was to simply save it from the scraper,the secondary goal is to hear it run! I have noticed old truck restorations of this caliber are YEARS long and it is understandable unless you have a bottomless pit of money.
Not to mention scrounging missing parts.
Edit

I can say for 100% sure,there is no water in the oil pan,and no oil. I jacked it up to fix a bad tire on the front and saw this, a plate missing on the bottom of the oil pan. Appears it was just a service plate. But I can not find didly squat on the net about these engines to find out what it was.
And still no dip stick or check plugs for oil level that I can find
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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by Kaiser » Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:54 am

:?: :lol: Why if there's no oil do you need the dipstick? :D
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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by Rich Eagle » Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:34 am

This engine sold for $100. So, they are out there.
https://gjwilliamson.com/product/contin ... lic-truck/
My piston ring catalog shows the Continental J4 being made in 1920 and 1921.
When did I do that?


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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by tdump » Mon Jan 16, 2023 3:22 pm

Rich,that 1 tidbit of info is a great help.I have yet to find much info about the truck or the engine,as in a parts break down,manuals, etc.
I have found some pics,you folks have been a great help in finding some that were better quality.
I appreciate the help.

Kaiser ,The "Great Hunt for the Dipstick", had humble beginnings.
I was simply trying to see if there was any water in the engine oil pan.
I have since checked the rear axle and although the oil is more of a "goo",it is up to the right level!
Trans,I have only looked in thru the filler.
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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by Rich Eagle » Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:39 pm

This is from a handy little book I have. It may not be as helpful if you don't have a dash with a plaque on it but here it is for what it's worth.
RepublicNoz.jpg
It doesn't look like the Continental engine either but....

Sorry for the fuzzy numbers. :oops:
P.S. It does mention the 11XA like in your frame number for '22 and '23. '24 only has 11X, and 11XB.
Lots of question, few answers.
The piston ring info may be bogus. Arrow piston lists J4A as '17 to '25 and Perfect circle lists 11X J4 as '25-'26. ???
Rich
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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by tdump » Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:00 pm

Thank you for that info,BIG edit
Ok so for 1922, the 11XA is listed as a 1 1/2 ton truck. serial 1 up
1923, 11XA is listed as a 2 ton truck serial 48 and up.
So according to my numbers, 2 11XA - 65 mine must have been number 65 off the line.
BUT does the 2 mean, perhaps 1922 sold in 23? or/ ;)
I can be specific now when searching and asking questions.
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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by tdump » Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:47 pm

1922 4 221 11XA (1 1/2 ton) Stromberg M-1 1529

1923 4 221 11XA (1 1/2 ton) Stromberg M-1 1529

Now that is handy to know,so now if I contact https://www.thecarburetorshop.com/TruckkitsR.html
I can order the correct carb kit.When I get to that point that is.
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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by Duey_C » Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:45 am

Mack, I'll be interested in the details if you call the carburetor shop about an M-1 #1529 kit. :)
I'm itching to know what and if they have anything. :)
Giovanni Venturi (Italy) and Henri Pitot (France) laid out the principles that make those carbs pretty dang good.
I'll stop, others might say I'm full of beans if I share more as I'm an M-3 learner/user.
If you remove it for a winter's evening of putzing/puttering/checking and you'd like more info,
start a conversation with me here or on the stak.
I'd be glad to send you what little I know and have learned in practice the past few years. :)
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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by tdump » Tue Jan 17, 2023 11:48 am

I am a long way from needing the carb ready but I am spraying it and both flaps seem to be free.
This is a slow go project.I want to get the crank handle straightened out,and fix the bad tire on the right front,my buddy used disc from a tractor implement with holes in them to bolt old wide lug pattern ford wheels on the front hubs so it can be moved easy and 1 of them was rotten. Rim was bad rusted so it is soaking in the electrolysis tank now.Then I will move on toward unsticking the engine.
I would rather soak and wait and see if I can free it up without taking it apart because things are just not that bad inside the engine and gaskets may be a real issue to find. Of course a couple years from now when I start getting my full retirement I will be wanting to go further as in find a back end of a frame, and get driving.
If all else fails, and I get it running,I can operate it as it was used as a short dog tractor.
People seem to enjoy seeing them at the shows. and they are a part of history in and of themselves.
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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by tdump » Tue Jan 17, 2023 11:51 am

Duey C, copy and paste of email from the carb shop.
WOW,they are proud of it but at least it is available.
CS-1529 is currently priced at $154. each plus postage ($14. within the United States).
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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by TXGOAT2 » Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:29 pm

Soaking and patience will be rewarded.

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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by Duey_C » Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:22 am

Yikes! They didn't say what was in the kit.
3 round fiber washers and a carb to manifold gasket. Hopefully the needle and seat...
Thanks Mack. Nice short dog!
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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by tdump » Wed Jan 18, 2023 10:36 am

I don't know what all is in the kit but at that price I would hope a float,a needle and seat and gaskets.
What is the float made of?
I won't go into this 1 yet.I have so many things apart and mid process I don't need much else apart .
Unsticking everything is first on the list after I get it movable.
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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:06 pm

...a plate missing on the bottom of the oil pan. Appears it was just a service plate. But I cannot find didly squat on the net about these engines to find out what it was.
Mack,

My guess is that the missing part is not an inspection plate. I believe what's missing is the oil pump. It would not be uncommon for the pump to be fitted in the bottom of the pan and accessible by simply unbolting it and dropping it out. Look way up inside the hole for evidence of a pump drive coupling, such as a male or female spline.


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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:26 pm


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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by Rich Eagle » Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:34 pm

Just for reference, I show my 1923 White engine details. The shaded area is a similar cover and my oil float and sight glass. Some of the Republic design may have similarities.
WhiteEng.jpg
When did I do that?


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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by tdump » Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:57 pm

Ok,well, there are 2 other cover type things further back,I didn't see anything on the first look in there but now that I know what to look for I will look again.If the oil pump is missing,that shoots this thing in the foot!
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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by Rich Eagle » Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:33 pm

You have probably seen this '16 on the RM site but I can't help but notice how similar it is to what you have. They must have used much of that later.
"220.8 cu. in. Continental Red Seal L-head four-cylinder engine."
"Just Sayin"'
Rich
Just some more details of it.
https://www.conceptcarz.com/profile/234 ... Truck.aspx
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Last edited by Rich Eagle on Wed Jan 18, 2023 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When did I do that?


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tdump
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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by tdump » Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:36 pm

Yes that is a nice original truck, wish mine was closer to that condition.
Well I just got out from under the truck and the oil pump is off to the side,and is there and all pipes are in tact.
What a relief,now just back to figuring out what is missing.
EDIT, I got in the house where I can add photos.
Here is the underside showing what I think is the oil pump and there is pipes inside all connected up to stuff,nothing loose or hanging. Maybe nothing missing?
Another edit, some of the PB blaster is going all the way thru and is about to start dripping out the bottom! So perhaps all pistons are not in terriable stuck condition.
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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:49 am

tdump wrote:
Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:36 pm
Yes that is a nice original truck, wish mine was closer to that condition.
Well I just got out from under the truck and the oil pump is off to the side,and is there and all pipes are in tact.
What a relief,now just back to figuring out what is missing.
EDIT, I got in the house where I can add photos.
Here is the underside showing what I think is the oil pump and there is pipes inside all connected up to stuff,nothing loose or hanging. Maybe nothing missing?
Another edit, some of the PB blaster is going all the way thru and is about to start dripping out the bottom! So perhaps all pistons are not in terriable stuck condition.
Mack,

Awesome! Happy for you that it's not missing its oil pump!!


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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by tdump » Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:12 pm

Well,Missing magneto will no longer be a issue by the end of the week.
getting a bosch DU4 like came on it.

And a IH F-4 that is supposed to fit it as well.

So this solves the missing sparkalator issue. :)
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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by tdump » Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:23 pm

This is not a project I can rush on if I wanted to,but I have done a little.
First and foremost I had to move to a better spot as the hauler was in a rush and I was not at home.
But the handcrank is not straight , gear shifter is in the electrolysis tank so I can free it up.
Clutch releases by the pedal as I looked inside with the cover off, gears look good in the trans,as in no stripped gears and not much debris,should wash out with some kerosene.
I am still soaking the engine and such.
looking forward to more info on this particular engine if anyone stumbles over anything they think may help.
Apparently there are no very active vintage truck forums,the 1 i joined ,well, not much action.
Here is a couple photos,you can see how short the truck was cut down to for a tractor.
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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by Rich Eagle » Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:55 pm

Take your time and savor the fun. Too many projects get rushed.
I had an 18-year project and have some that may take that long.
I'm enjoying yours now.
Thanks
Rich
When did I do that?


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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by tdump » Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:03 pm

well we had a spring like sunny day today and cuirosity got the better of me,I have wanted to know what was under that cylinder head.
So off it came.
And I am pleasantly surprised.
Some carbon, a slight ring groove,I have saw alot worse.
nothing in bad shape.
the other 2 look the same. I put a 1/4 inch of red kerosene in each cylinder .I will see what is gone later.
I am having difficulty getting the shifter freed up. I can peck each shaft back and forth with a hammer and brass punch. I took 1 ball and spring out but to remove the other I would need to take forks and such out.
Just won't free up. I soaked it in the electrolosis bucket and after pecking on it a while and making things more moreso,i just put it back in the vat and will leave it a few days.Any hints and tips on freeing that up would be appreciated.
So with the cylinders being clean,as in no gaulding, makes me wonder what is stuck. I will check the water pump next. But I am trying to figure out,will taking the 3 nuts off that are on the engine remove the pump?
 
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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by TXGOAT2 » Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:20 pm

I'd want to gently work the valves loose before trying to turn the engine, and keep soaking everything. If you can get the crankshaft to move, rotating it a short distance forward and backward is often helpful, while adding lubricant and slowly increasing the range of movement as the engine frees up. Almost anything can be stuck, so caution is needed. Pistons, valve stems, and valve lifters often stick, but I'd rule nothing out, including the oil pump and water pump, if any. It's encouraging that the cylinders show no sign of having had water standing in them.


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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by Rich P. Bingham » Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:39 pm

Mack, thanks for bringing us along on your exploring ! Kinda like a treasure hunt to uncover the "innards" and discover their condition. Looks good !! Keep us up to date, please ! :lol:
Get a horse !


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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by tdump » Wed Feb 08, 2023 10:24 pm

Any pointers on how to free up the shifter a bit better?
I can bump the rods back and forth with brass punch and hammer but they won't budge with just the shifter lever.
Soaked in the electrolysis bucket for a week,rust GONE, heated with torch and penetrating oil applied,with alot of tapping and so forth.
I am wanting to make sure the trans is in neutral.
IT may very well be that I have to take this engine plumb apart as I can't even figure out how to get the water pump loose .
It may have a fiber timing gear and I don't want to break it.
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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by Herb Iffrig » Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:06 am

Charlottesville 1921.jpg
I had this one posted on the This was Trucking thread on the OT forum.
Rich Eagle said it was a Republic. There are other photos of Republics on there too.


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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by Rich P. Bingham » Thu Feb 09, 2023 9:56 am

Disassembly of rusty machinery is always challenging ! I don't know anything about electrolysis, perhaps it is not penetrating ? I have had the best luck with penetrating oils, "Liquid Wrench", "Knock 'er Loose" and "S-OaK". Heat can sure help, tapping and "nursing" slight movement, more penetrating oil, and lots of patience ! You're doing great ! Thanks for showing us.
Get a horse !


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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Thu Feb 09, 2023 4:04 pm

I think you're going to have to loosen up the clutch forks and tap the shift rods out completely in order to clean/polish them up. Might be a good idea to remove the timing gear cover to see what's on the other end of your water pump. Probably some nasty stuff in there anyway that would be good to wash out. Keep us informed! This is fun!

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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by Rich Eagle » Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:07 pm

If it has a timing cover, I would remove it as Jerry mentioned. Here is how some of the gears are held on on my White.
Whitegears.jpg
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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by tdump » Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:14 pm

I am afraid you all may be right about taking apart more than I really hoped to. I have the rest of my life though to get to it! :lol:
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'


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Re: Well boy have I went and done it, Republic "shortdog" truck

Post by tdump » Sun Feb 12, 2023 9:01 pm

Wow,while googling Mack trucks, I found this!
https://drivevinty.com/mack-chain-drive/
Gee, I would park my T or my Republic at your event MUCH cheaper! :lol:
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'

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