Old Photo- Renault style hood car

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Herb Iffrig
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Old Photo- Renault style hood car

Post by Herb Iffrig » Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:51 pm

funky car.jpg
The hood seems long for that type of car.
It's kind'a funky looking.

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Re: Old Photo- Renault style hood car

Post by Rich Eagle » Sat Dec 21, 2019 5:47 pm

It is a very nice Photo. The license plate looks like the red on gray porcelain 1911 New Jersey plates. I'm not going to guess the make. It's definitely a french front. There were so many similar ones. I painted a picture of what I thought was a DE Dion but was questioned on it along the way.
I will do some more looking to see if I can come up with a match to it.
Thanks for posting.
Rich
When did I do that?


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Re: Old Photo- Renault style hood car

Post by Burger in Spokane » Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:15 pm

The French design aesthetic has always been wonky, compared to elsewhere,
from this sloped down hood to the 2cv and Citroen D series, nevermind the
Panhards ....

To my eye, cars of this period should have tall, upright radiators and big, round
headlights nestled down between the radiator and the fenders, clearly showing
my limited, and very American paradigm.

Interesting rig. Even the roof is interesting. I wonder how additionally difficult
getting parts and service on an imported vehicle was in 1910 ?
More people are doing it today than ever before !


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Re: Old Photo- Renault style hood car

Post by wayne sheldon » Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:13 am

That style of hood, with the radiator under the chassis was very common on European and British cars from the late 1890s until about 1905. Renault of course continued the basic style almost to 1930, with the radiator behind the hood. In America, quite a few automobile manufacturers used a similar style in the first years of that century, with Franklin (no radiator!) using that style hood until about 1917. A number of trucks also used that style in the '10s and '20s. Most notably Kelsey and Mack.

I doubt that those front fenders are how it was manufactured. And a few other details look "modified" (?).
I don't see any details that ring any bells as to what it may be, and being 3am now, I don't think I will spend any time looking tonight.
License plate definitely looks to be New Jersey, and 1911.

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Re: Old Photo- Renault style hood car

Post by Mark Gregush » Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:59 am

There were some American cars that had the French hood. Probably just as hard to get parts for them even back then. My copy of "The Automobiles of 1904" shows about 14-16 cars with French hoods only a couple of them were imports. Then also don't forget Mack trucks.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :roll:

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Re: Old Photo- Renault style hood car

Post by Burger in Spokane » Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:46 pm

A cursory interweb search looks to show that the Model H Franklins were introduced in
1910, and had low, sloped hood like the Renault. Franklin Models D & G had a very distinctive
round, tubular engine enclosure. Not sure one could even call it a "hood". It looks like that
style was dropped after 1912 ? I have a period photo of one of these round grilled Franklins
on a downtown Spokane street when it was a fairly new car.

While the Mack may have shared the general backward sloping hood design, the height of
it give their trucks an entirely different look than the Renault/Franklin cars, whose hood
barely stands taller than the fenders. The Kelsey reference eludes my searches. I found straight
upright grilled examples, and an odd "Motorette" 3-wheeled thingy that is hard to draw stylistic
comparisons from.

It is possible that the photo in question features a Franklin H ?
More people are doing it today than ever before !


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Re: Old Photo- Renault style hood car

Post by wayne sheldon » Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:16 am

My apologies my dear friend Brent B ! I claim 3am foggies as my only (and at that barely) excuse. It was indeed NOT "Kelsey", but the Kelly Springfield truck that used a Renault style hood in the '10s and early '20s
The OP car in question cannot be a Franklin,given that the Franklin use of that style hood did in fact only begin about 1910, and the car in question appears to be somewhat earlier than that. It is a very interesting car or truck, that appears to have seen some use and abuse before this picture was taken. The picture isn't clear enough to see a lot of details. I can only read a few words on the various signs shown, and under the car detais just don't show up well. However, it appears to be a single chain drive to the off-center differential in the rear axle, and there appears to be some piping for the motor showing below the firewall. As I said, I doubt the fenders were how it left the factory, but given the styles, lack of running boards, the lamps, as well as the front frame shackle horns, I would suspect the vehicle to be earlier than 1908. Which would make it almost five (or maybe a bit more?) years old when the picture was taken.
There were quite a few USA built automobiles manufactured that used that style, mostly before about 1905 (however a few were later).
Wonderful photo! So many questions.

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Re: Old Photo- Renault style hood car

Post by DLodge » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:20 am

Burger in Spokane wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:15 pm
The French design aesthetic has always been wonky, compared to elsewhere,
from this sloped down hood to the 2cv and Citroen D series, nevermind the
Panhards ....
Burger, this is the car I bought and drove when I was living in Paris in 1968. You tellin' me I had a wonky car??

eend parijs 68.jpg

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Re: Old Photo- Renault style hood car

Post by Rich Eagle » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:54 am

If you loose the ky for a wonky you are in trouble. Better to have a towky car. :P
When did I do that?


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Re: Old Photo- Renault style hood car

Post by Burger in Spokane » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:05 pm

Uh, yeah .... I'd say the 2cv is pretty wonky ! :lol: :lol: :lol:

A local business owner has a pristinely kept 2cv that he proudly parks in front of
his place all summer. I have always thought the design team on this car found a
giant, oversized ham can, laid it on it's side, tacked on some stolen VW Beetle fenders,
filled in the balance with plywood scraps, and after realizing that they forgot lights,
stole some of those out of the misc. light bin at Tractor Supply ! In walked the
company brass, who all agreed it was an outstanding look, and the rest is history !
Say what anyone will about the wonky design, Citroen sold a metric skadoodle of
them !
More people are doing it today than ever before !


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Re: Old Photo- Renault style hood car

Post by Rich Bingham » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:57 pm

For those struggling with the metric system, a metric skadoodle is equal to 43,578.8 sodalitres, or approximately 8,714 Imperial gallons. In dry measure that’s 956 cubic octacres.

You’re welcome :D
"Get a horse !"


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Re: Old Photo- Renault style hood car

Post by Burger in Spokane » Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:43 pm

Rich tends to be a tad humble, but let it be known to all, that he took
the Tri-Burg Golden Toenail Award for Metrics every year he attended the
Institute, and did pioneering work on the theory of skadoodles that led
to today's understanding. A 12" statue of his likeness was erected next to
the pier in Chugwater upon his graduation.
More people are doing it today than ever before !

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Re: Old Photo- Renault style hood car

Post by DLodge » Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:38 am

Burger in Spokane wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:05 pm
Uh, yeah .... I'd say the 2cv is pretty wonky ! :lol: :lol: :lol:
I have owned three of them: one when I lived in Paris, one when I lived in Holland (gas rationing had been introduced and my weekly allowance wasn't enough to get back and forth to work in the Audi) and one here in the US. A Dutch friend was shipping three of them to St Louis in a container if he could find three buyers. (Yep. I was one of them.)

The Dutch nickname for them is "Lelijke Eend" (Ugly Duck), and in conversation that's shortened to Duck. Because Missouri also has personalized plates, mine was EEND. Probably 99.9% of the people who saw it had no idea what it meant, but anyone Dutch would start laughing.
eend close.jpg

The son of friends of mine there was always fascinated by the cars and managed to combine his fascination with making a living. He buys, sells, repairs and rebuilds them.

https://www.citroen-klassiekers.nl/en/

Fun memories.


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Re: Old Photo- Renault style hood car

Post by Burger in Spokane » Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:05 pm

Dick, ... were all your 2cv's that same blue color ?

Am I the only one who sees the humor in Citroen changing over to the "stylish"
square headlights, when those became "the thing" ?

So, as long as we have a real, live 2cv fan/owner on the line, ... 2cv means "two
horsepower", correct ? Surely they muster a little more than that ! (?) I KNOW what
20hp feels like, .... I can't imagine 2hp would get the car to move ! Also, what kind
of fuel economy does a 2cv deliver ?
More people are doing it today than ever before !

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Re: Old Photo- Renault style hood car

Post by DLodge » Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:22 pm

Burger in Spokane wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:05 pm
Dick, ... were all your 2cv's that same blue color ?
I think the first one in Paris was just a generic blue, the one in Holland was kind of an off-white as I recall. The one that was shipped here was called "bleu myositis" ("forget-me-not blue").
Burger in Spokane wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:05 pm
Am I the only one who sees the humor in Citroen changing over to the "stylish"
square headlights, when those became "the thing" ?
Probably not. :D

Burger in Spokane wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:05 pm
So, as long as we have a real, live 2cv fan/owner on the line, ... 2cv means "two
horsepower", correct ? Surely they muster a little more than that ! (?) I KNOW what
20hp feels like, .... I can't imagine 2hp would get the car to move ! Also, what kind
of fuel economy does a 2cv deliver ?
Yes, but the French use some kind of arcane "taxable horsepower" formula. The familiar post-war Renault was a 4cv, and the larger Citroens were referred to as 11cv. It's been a while, and with only two cylinders the engine has to work very hard sometimes. I seem to recall something in the mid to high 30s for mpg. With no wind and flat terrain, perhaps in the 40s.

Oh, and as a side note. I once bought a Haynes manual for the 2cv. Haynes has a set formula for their list of specifications that includes firing order, so they dutifully listed it as "Firing order: 1-2"....


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Re: Old Photo- Renault style hood car

Post by Rich Bingham » Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:20 pm

:lol: something very appealing about the “duck”. Unique and intriguing in a way that transcends merely being a “foreign” car.

As for horsepower ratings, really, all the formulae are pretty arcane. Horsepower by the score or the hundreds is beyond my comprehension as I think it must be for anyone who’s had one horsepower break in two beneath them or has snubbed a really bronc-y range colt to a post. Similarly, many who thrive on speed have never experienced how 2mph on a tractor can seem like the speed of light when something goes afoul with an implement. :o :D
"Get a horse !"

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Re: Old Photo- Renault style hood car

Post by Mark Gregush » Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:40 pm

There are a couple of them running around Portland Or. The one I see most often is burgundy and black, nice combo. I sure would drive it, of course I like bugs so sure why not!
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :roll:

1921 Huckster
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Re: Old Photo- Renault style hood car

Post by Burger in Spokane » Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:36 pm

What if Haynes got that firing order backwards ??? :shock:
More people are doing it today than ever before !


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Re: Old Photo- Renault style hood car

Post by 46woodduck » Wed Dec 25, 2019 1:41 am

Had a love for the 2CV since I was in grade school and read a National Geographic article about a couple of guys who drove one over the Andes. They may not be fast, but they are damn sure nimble. For fording rivers they would take the doors off so it wouldn't float and just let the water flow through.

Apparently people still do it. http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-n ... s-in-a-2CV

Life is good doing things others would never think of.

Merry Christmas guys.
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Re: Old Photo- Renault style hood car

Post by Kaiser » Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:42 am

Hey Dick, had one of them too, married in it twentysome years ago, it was one of the later Charleston models, black and maroonish two tone paint job, great car !
In essence it is the same idea that made Henry design the model T but created around forty years later and by French engineers, well.... :lol:
I think most T owners would really like the ride if they get a chance to try one..
Merry Christmas everyone !
When in trouble, do not fear, blame the second engineer ! 8-)
Leo van Stirum, Netherlands
'23 Huckster, '66 CJ5 daily driver

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Re: Old Photo- Renault style hood car

Post by DLodge » Wed Dec 25, 2019 1:16 pm

Kaiser wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:42 am
In essence it is the same idea that made Henry design the model T but created around forty years later and by French engineers, well....
As I recall, what André Citroën told his engineers was that he wanted a car that a farmer could drive across a plowed field with a basket of eggs on the back seat and not break any eggs. The ride is pretty amazing.


Years ago, a friend in NL sent me this book. It's a fun read and I get it out from time to time just to browse through it.
Eend 35.JPG
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I don't know where you are in NL, but if you're ever in Beesd, drop by Chateau Deux Chevaux (Achterstraat 38) and tell Boudewijn Rikmenspoel that his Oom Dick uit Amerika sends his greetings. :D

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Re: Old Photo- Renault style hood car

Post by 2nighthawks » Wed Dec 25, 2019 4:44 pm

Burger - Some time ago, I heard about a car show (....I know how you LOVE car shows) where only two cars showed up. One was a 2CV and the other was a VW Thing. Neither car won,....they both got a trophy for second place! ......harold :lol:


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Re: Old Photo- Renault style hood car

Post by Burger in Spokane » Wed Dec 25, 2019 5:20 pm

Not only is that funny, but were I an owner of either, I would wear it as a
badge of honor that "the judges" could not make up their mind which one
was worse !

Since I was a tiny child, I loved old cars, except the rounded blobs of the
40's and early 50's. Something about that blobular shape that is displeasing
to my eye. Some are sleeker than others, but some just looked like a bar of
soap or a jelly bean. But finned cars .... I LOVED those ! George Jetson and
all that futuristic rocket ship stuff. But by the time I was old enough to drive,
finned cars were REALLY passé. A great way to ensure you never got a date,
have people see you as an abject loser, etc. ....

But I loved them any way, and took the beating that came with them. But
in the process, I got real good at laughing at myself and wearing the scorn of
others as my own badge of honor. So, when I say "That's the ugliest damned
car I ever saw", one must consider the source, ... and if it's coming from me,
well ... I am a seasoned soldier of the Ugly Old Car Brigade and it's all for a laugh.
Fashion has never been my strong point, and if anything, I stand for all things
long out of fashion and "trending", to me, means going the opposite direction
that everyone else is heading !
More people are doing it today than ever before !

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Re: Old Photo- Renault style hood car

Post by Kaiser » Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:10 pm

Dick, i'm in Spakenburg, near Amersfoort, so "boven de rivieren" but when i happen to be traveling South i'll look him up !
Fijne kerst !
When in trouble, do not fear, blame the second engineer ! 8-)
Leo van Stirum, Netherlands
'23 Huckster, '66 CJ5 daily driver

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Re: Old Photo- Renault style hood car

Post by DLodge » Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:08 pm

Kaiser wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:10 pm
Dick, i'm in Spakenburg, near Amersfoort, so "boven de rivieren" but when i happen to be traveling South i'll look him up !
Fijne kerst !
According to Google Maps, 57 km or 41 minutes. De moeite waard als je in eenden geïnteresseerd bent. Heb kerstavond en 1e kerstdag bij m'n dochter en schoonzoon met verschillende familieleden gevierd. Ben bekaf. Morgen uitrusten.

Christmas finished here, but you have one more day. Enjoy! :D

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