Texas T Distributor Problem

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kfazenbaker
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Texas T Distributor Problem

Post by kfazenbaker » Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:34 pm

Here we go again. Why do all the odd things happen to us??

We are now having trouble with our Texas T distributor. We cannot get the rotor to line up with the contact points on the distributor head to spark at the correct time. It wants to spark directly between those contact points unless it spins backwards. Then it sparks where it should.

This is in what was a running/driving T. Over a week or so the engine began to spit and sputter progressively worse. It drove into the shop on its own power and then the engine lost all spark.

We have already replaced:
- condenser
- coil
- rotor
- distributor cap

We can get spark to the plugs if we spin the distributor head backwards by hand as the center post stays still. To be clear, “backwards” in this case would be the distributor head spinning counter-clockwise. When we spin the distributor head clockwise, to simulate when the engine is running, that’s when it sparks directly in the middle between posts.

This should not be possible. Yes, we know. But unless we’re being extremely dense (and we hope we are!) that’s what it’s doing.

Lest the chorus of “it can’t” start up, here are links to videos of what it’s doing. The black marks around the edges of the distributor head are where the contact points on the distributor cap line up.

Video 1: This shows Ernie turning the distributor cap by hand. You can see the spark at the plug. When he pulls the cap you can see the rotor is indeed pointing directly at a mark where a contact point on the distributor hits. However, notice he was spinning the distributor head BACKWARDS, that is, counter-clockwise.
https://youtu.be/jA5DyyzA7b8

Video 2: This shows Ernie turning the distributor head by hand. You can again see that when it sparks with the head turning clockwise, as it would when the engine is running, it sparks between the contact points.
https://youtu.be/whNrNLuAvY0

Video 3: A short video that shows the engine turning over, and you can again see that the spark comes when the rotor is between contact points.
https://youtu.be/U4BqUgj27kw

We have been trying to call Bill at Texas T, but it must be a busy work day for him as we haven’t gotten a hold of him yet. In the mean time, we thought we’d throw this problem out here for discussion.

Thanks again all!

~Katie


TXGOAT2
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Re: Texas T Distributor Problem

Post by TXGOAT2 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:57 pm

Does this distributor have a centrifugal automatic spark advance mechanism? If so, I'd look there for problems. Some distributors have both vacuum and centrifugal advance.

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RajoRacer
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Re: Texas T Distributor Problem

Post by RajoRacer » Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:14 pm

Hi Katie - when the engine is running, the TTP distributor turns C.C.W. More than likely, Ernie will need to re-time the car & start from scratch - it's not too difficult and the instructions (if you don't have a copy) are available on the T.T. P. website. I just did this whole endeavor last week !


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Re: Texas T Distributor Problem

Post by Scott_Conger » Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:31 pm

I'd think that spitting and snarfing and now suddenly being totally out of time by 1/4 revolution of the distributor suggests to me, a broken or jumped tooth down at the distributor drive. It certainly wouldn't hurt to retime it like Steve said...if it goes bad again, it's a bum tooth. perhaps since you have to at least completely retime it, it wouldn't hurt to pull it off the front of the engine and double check the gears anyway...

good luck
Last edited by Scott_Conger on Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Texas T Distributor Problem

Post by Mike Howell » Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:55 pm

Texas T repositions the breaker plate to make the Bosch distributor work correctly. Yours must have missed this step. (As did mine!) Remove the screws that hold the breaker plate (and distributor cap hold-down clips) and turn the breaker plate 13/16 of an inch counterclockwise. Drill the distributor and install the screws to hold it in this new position. Texas T then re-attaches the cap clips in their original position with pop rivets. This problem really had me scratching my head also until someone at Texas T gave me the solution!
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Re: Texas T Distributor Problem

Post by Mike Howell » Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:59 pm

If your distributor has had this modification already, you can tell as the cap hold-down clips are pop riveted to the distributor.
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Tmooreheadf
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Re: Texas T Distributor Problem

Post by Tmooreheadf » Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:38 pm

Some of the earlier Texas T distributors had screws that held the clips on. Those require a different set of points. Seems to me I remember having the different points and had timing issues like are being discussed. Changed the points to the proper configuration as is described in the Texas T instructions, problem solved. They are good units and do a great job with little or no maintenance.
I have recently changed to 14 mm plugs. Not sure I like them as the front 2 cylinders continue to fowl plugs. Never had that issue before using just about any old 1/2” plugs. Have tried several 14 mm plugs with similar results using a P head and distributor. Any comments are welcomed. # 3 and 4 cylinder plugs are clean as a whistle!

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Re: Texas T Distributor Problem

Post by Mark Gregush » Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:57 pm

Check to see if the pin holding the gear to the shaft has sheered or the gear on the cam has moved. Or if the plate at the top has moved on the shaft.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: Texas T Distributor Problem

Post by AZTerry » Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:31 am

Hello Katie,

This sounds like a problem I have addressed in the past.

First and foremost I am NOT going to bash Texas T parts either the current or past owners. They have always provided the best parts possible with there current knowledge. They have always been great to deal with and supplied great products.

My best guess is your problem is that the gear on the bottom of the distributor that engages the gear on the cam shaft has slipped. Again I have seen this before. The gear is held to the distributor shaft by two allen head set screws. I am not sure if this is a problem with current production. What I have done is remove the gear from the shaft, clean everything up, then put the gear back on the shaft and find a way to hold it in position while I drill a dimple in the shaft through one of the set screw holes in the gear. I then install one set screw and drill a second dimple in the shaft for the second set screw. I am going to add I have only had to do this two or three times. I believe in Locktight.

Now it is education time. The points will ONLY fire at the correct position if the distributor cam is rotating in the correct direction. That means observing the spark when rotating the distributor the opposite direction the rotor turns. So position the distributor some where past before the spark should occur and the rotate it the opposite direction to see where the spark occurs. The method I use is to just use a test light across the points when the light lights up the points just opened, that's where the spark should occur and your timing should be correct.

Response to another comment, I am only aware of two different sets of points for these types of conversion distributors. One is the referenced Texas T distributor, which only turns one direction and does not require a bell crank. The other is a Performance T distributor (no linger being manufactured to the best of my knowledge) which does turn the opposite direction and requires a different set of points. I believe they are both for 1968 vehicles. One is a VW bug and he other a Porsche.

I hope this helps solve your problems.
Terry

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Re: Texas T Distributor Problem

Post by Brian D » Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:11 am

I found this as a problem with a Texas T distributor causing the rotor to move about a quarter of an inch freely.
Timing a great issue.
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Re: Texas T Distributor Problem

Post by Tmooreheadf » Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:38 pm

I had one that would actually disengage the distributor from the drive. In comparing two, I noticed the one with the problem was where the screw that holds the distributor in position was drilled too high through the aluminum main body. I drilled and tap another hole like the good on, nearly a half of a hole lower. Problem solved. Also, that holding screw gets worn from the rotation of the distributor in the housing and will make the distributor head loose in the body housing.


Tmooreheadf
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Re: Texas T Distributor Problem

Post by Tmooreheadf » Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:41 pm

Also, depending how old the unit is, Birdhaven is making a one piece rod that comes from the bevel gear to the distributor head. That piece used to be 2 pieces. The new one piece is much better.


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Re: Texas T Distributor Problem

Post by Allan » Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:40 pm

When the distributor on my 27 Tudor gives me problems, I have a coilbox, coils and timer on the shelves ready to fix it.

Allan from down under.


Topic author
kfazenbaker
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Re: Texas T Distributor Problem

Post by kfazenbaker » Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:11 am

Thank you all very much for your thoughts and advice!

Just to provide some closure here, we figured it out. It had nothing to do with anything on the T engine or timing gear, it was all in the distributor head itself. And of all the crazy things…

Let me start with just a bit of backstory. We bought this T from a guy who bought it at an estate sale. He didn’t know anything about T’s but thought he’d work on it. After 5+ years in his garage and never doing anything with it, he wanted the space so he sold it. Point being, we didn’t know much about T’s when we bought it, and neither did the guy we bought it from.

It looked like it had a Texas T distributor on it. The bottom part had Texas T stamped right on it. So we followed the directions from the Texas T site to time the distributor, it worked, and we went with it. The car has been running on and off the last year. It never, until 2 days ago, occurred to us that this wasn’t a true Texas T distributor. No one ever shows pictures of the inside, just the outside.

In talking with others, Ernie finally realized that while the base was Texas T, the head was a VW Bosch distributor that had never been modified to make it work with a T. It had none of the modifications people were saying should be there to make the Bosch work on a T. And yet the car had been running for the last year!! How did it manage to run, and what changed? That’s been our head scratcher for the last week.

Here’s what we think. Someone, somewhere in the past, picked up a Texas T base, then fiddled with a regular Bosch distributor until they got the rotor to ride on top of the mechanical advance weights in just such a way as to spark in proper time. It actually positions the rotor so it just catches an edge, but was close enough for the spark to make the jump pretty consistently. It fit snugly enough in that position that it stayed in place over the past year. We think it was probably a bit seized from being in that position for years while the car sat idle. But then, over a few days, it started to break loose. Hence the increase in engine sputtering. And then it dropped into proper position where the spark could no longer connect as it was not modified to do so.

That perhaps sounds a bit crazy, but it’s the only explanation we can find to fit the scenario.

Ernie took out the point plate. There are 2 small arms on the sides of the mechanical advance that he was able to bend toward the center to keep the mechanical advance from working. Then he drilled 2 new holes in the distributor head body so he could rotate the point plate to where the points open properly for a T. Put it all back together, and the T runs better than ever. It starts easier and runs smoother.

So I suppose it shows, yet again, never assume anything!

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Re: Texas T Distributor Problem

Post by TRDxB2 » Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:12 pm

It sounds like it might be a modified Texas T distributor but not sure if all parts were as you indicate.
Here is why, a true VW Bosh 009 distributor had a vacuum advance. It was a popular, cheap head, modification to make work on a Model T
TEXAS T Distributor has mechanical advance but was/is NOT a VW 009 distributor head. This is their description
"Although this unit uses a custom made distributor head, the points, condenser, rotor, and distributor cap will interchange with distributors commonly used for production vehicles. The head is keyed and will only fit in one position"
Found this link with a picture of the parts under the plate for a Texas T. http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50 ... 1427237901
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