Brass Radiator repair questions

[Belliott3]

How difficult is it to repair the brass on an original Ford brass radiator? The one I currently have is original to the car, but the previous owner put quite a dent on the front of the tank that also creased the top of the tank as well. Otherwise there’s nothing wrong with it. There is another brass radiator for sale that has a nice top tank, but the inlet and outlet hose fittings are almost completely rusted away, and I don’t think anything is solid enough to clamp a hose to. Is it possible to switch tanks so I could use my original radiator? Or is there some way of repairing that dent/crinkle in mine?

[Norman Kling]

I would suggest taking it to a good radiator shop. Maybe someone in your local club knows which one would do the best. The top tank would need to be removed so it could be worked from the inside. I don't know whether or not it could ever be made as straight as original.

[John kuehn]

You mentioned the radiator is original to the car. If it is does it cool well? Is the dent causing the radiator to leak? A radiator can look good but not necessarily cool. That may or may not something to consider before you spend time or money on older original radiators.
For me cooling is the important question before having any work done.

[Art Ebeling]

I think a radiator shop could remove and switch the top tanks. If you could find someone that repairs brass music instruments for schools they might be able to straighten your tank after the radiator shop removes it or replace the outlet and inlet with the ones from your tank. If your radiator is working I would switch the tanks instead of using a unknown radiator. Art

[TRDxB2]

How difficult is it to repair the brass on an original Ford brass radiator? The one I currently have is original to the car, but the previous owner put quite a dent on the front of the tank that also creased the top of the tank as well. Otherwise there’s nothing wrong with it. There is another brass radiator for sale that has a nice top tank, but the inlet and outlet hose fittings are almost completely rusted away, and I don’t think anything is solid enough to clamp a hose to. Is it possible to switch tanks so I could use my original radiator? Or is there some way of repairing that dent/crinkle in mine?

"quite a dent" & crease/crinkle are left to interpretation. Pictures help with estimating the extent of the damage.

These video's are of Berg radiator making a new brass radiator. You can see what it takes & what would be needed to b done to yours
part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbQMbpHEiAo
part 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4Z58zC-l1Q
part 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aehHwPlaxhU

--- Sometimes its best to leave well-enough alone

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[Belliott3]

Here are some pictures. I shouldn’t have done such a good job polishing; it makes the dents harder to see but you get the idea. It’s not a horrible dent, but it is visible, right in front for all to see!

[Belliott3]

And yes, my radiator doesn’t leak or overheat.

[Kerry]

Your radiator has been re-cored some time in it's life, the top tank is not easy to pull apart, they are seam rolled together, look around for a good top tank and get a radiator service to transplant.

[Wayne Sheldon]

I am going to step on a few toes here.
One does not really "remove" the top tank from a brass era radiator. One must "disassemble" the top tank from the radiator.
And when putting it back on, again it is assembled onto the radiator.
First off, and last on is the back piece (under the hood) or panel above the water inlet. With that off, you "might" be able to straighten and re-solder the front and top pieces, working from inside the top tank.
However, that front panel is bad enough that it would be much easier to repair (and make it look nice!) if it were removed from the radiator. It may be a judgement call whether the extra work to remove and reinstall it is worth the effort saved in making it look nice. I straightened my dented radiator from inside without removing that piece and it came out better than I expected it to. But mine wasn't dented as badly as yours.
The way the top/outer piece of the top tank is intertwined with the side pieces? IF (big IF) those parts are not broken or in bad shape, it may be easier to keep the top/outer piece in place. You should be able to remove the front panel (with the "Ford" script) while leaving the top/outer piece in place. It is a bit tricky to unsolder and put back into place that way, but I have done it.
One of the radiators I repaired the "intertwining" between the top and side pieces was badly broken apart. That one I had to completely disassemble and make repairs. It looks good now, and holds water.

The water inlet on brass era radiators is an odd little piece that varies a lot depending on whether it is a real original, or a half century old reproduction, and who built it?
Some of those water inlets are cast brass (nice!). Most appear to be cast iron or steel. Whether they can be repaired or not depends upon the quality of the cast steel or iron, and just how much or little remains of it. So far, my luck with those has been good. Even a couple that were in terrible condition had a good enough quality of steel that they would accept and hold brazing. One, the place where the radiator hose goes, was completely GONE! I slightly resized a scrap of steel waterpipe, and brazed it into place with some gussets I made from small steel scraps. The heat from all that torch work thoroughly cleaned the remaining original metal and my new areas. I then coated it inside and out (except for where the soldering attachment is done to the top tank!!!) with a high strength epoxy to slow down future rust eating away the remaining original areas.

Pre-tin everything before assembly to make soldering easier.

[DickC]

I have an idea that has not been proven but just a thought. I have had a "paintless dent removal" done to several dents on my original 1988 Mustang 5.0. I was amazed with the result. If in this case of the radiator, would it be possible to open a one inch hole in the back of the tank so the rods used by the professional could access the dents from behind. Once the work is done, one could solder a plug into the hole and smoothed and then painted.This may be me over thinking!!!

[Allan]

The dents shown show some stretching of the brass panels. Re-working and shrinking them would require considerable skill, considering that the panels are flat and will again polished.
It would be far simpler to replace them with good donor panels. The panels will need to be removed to work on them, so replacing them with straight replacements will save the time and expense trying to repair the originals.

Either way, it is not a job I would take on myself. Find a professional used to working on old car stuff.

Allan from down under.

[Wayne Sheldon]

I have an idea that has not been proven but just a thought. I have had a "paintless dent removal" done to several dents on my original 1988 Mustang 5.0. I was amazed with the result. If in this case of the radiator, would it be possible to open a one inch hole in the back of the tank so the rods used by the professional could access the dents from behind. Once the work is done, one could solder a plug into the hole and smoothed and then painted.This may be me over thinking!!!

I have used this method for repairing many things, and it can be very effective. However as Allan has just pointed out, in this case the damage is serious enough that the pieces will at the least need backing up and shrinking more than the small push from the inside can provide.


It also needs to be pointed out (I meant to say this earlier but forgot!), that brass, especially old brass, should be annealed before any significant bending or hammering is done. There is a perfect temperature where the color of the brass begins to change SLIGHTLY. It takes some practice to get good at it. However, be very careful, just a few degrees too hot and the brass will suddenly turn into a puddle! (If you think annealing brass is difficult, you should (shouldn't?) try welding thin brass. I have welded nearly a hundred cracks in brass headlamp rims. That is really tricky to get right. A few degrees too cool and no weld. Just a couple degrees too hot, and a small area turns into a puddle alongside a big hole to be filled in!
Brass "work hardens" every time you hit it with a small hammer (or anything else!), or bend it even slightly. Work harden it enough, and the next move you make will result in a crack that will need to be welded.
The brass should be annealed again and again as needed. "As needed" is a judgement call that takes practice to get the right feeling for it.

Most people silver solder cracks in brass, with good results. I have done that also. I taught myself how to weld brass when I didn't have any silver solder handy and the local welding supply was out of it. I liked the results from welding the headlamp rims and have done so several times since.

[Sarikatime]

There are several companies in my town that straighten the car body every couple years after a good hailstorm. They don’t mess up the paint but take out all of the dents. You may also consider just replacing the front face piece of the radiator.

[Norman Kling]

Unless you want a show car, just leave it alone if it doesn't leak. It gives the car character. after all it is over 100 years old. If you were that old you would have some wrinkles too!
Norm

[Belliott3]

Where would you find an original radiator front like that?

[RajoRacer]

I've seen tank fronts on Ebay once in a while !

[John kuehn]

If your T radiator isn’t leaking and it cools good I would use it as it is and check around and find another good parts radiator or buy another new correct radiator.

You could call Brassworks and ask about a restoration or repairs. They might also make some replacement parts for you. It wouldn’t hurt to ask.

[Belliott3]

Lots of great advice; I have a lot to think about! I also forgot to ask, but did all brass radiators have “Made in USA” on the front, or were some just Ford script?

[Kerry]

According to the Encyclopaedia, the Made in USA was added in April 16 1912.

[Larry]

Hello Bill,
I have a very nice original 1916 upper tank complete with its original neck.
The tank and neck are very nice. Nice threads and quite straight.
The back of the tank has the embossed Ford motor company label and the tank number is: 0956943
Reasonably priced if you can use it.
Larry

[Larry]

I

[Belliott3]

Looks nice! Is it completely disassembled, or would you ship the entire tank?

[Larry]

The top of the tank, and the face of the tank are still soldered to the core. I would remove those from the core, and could send the tank parts without the core.

[Belliott3]

I’ll take it! Send me a PM and we’ll arrange things

[Belliott3]

Just curious; is the core any good and do you have the rest of the brass pieces?

[Larry]

The core is not good. I used the sides off of this radiator along with the cast radiator support rod, bracket to complete a V radiator that needed those parts.

[Belliott3]

Gotcha. Figured I’d ask ahead of time! No matter, send me that PM and let’s arrange this.

[Larry]

Will PM you late this evening when I get home.

[Belliott3]

Or text me if it’s easier. 5866515760

[Bob McDaniel]

Looks like a good sullution has been found. I was thinking of the paintless dent removal while reading this but agree that it might not work in this case or could be too expensive. Knowing Bill, he would rather save the original top but original replacement top is good too.