Reluctant to start, gutless on hills, and...

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Steve Jelf
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Reluctant to start, gutless on hills, and...

Post by Steve Jelf » Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:56 pm

... maybe this was the reason.

IMG_4907 copy.JPG
I checked all the usual stuff I could think of: plugs, timer, manifold leak, float level, etc., etc. But there was one thing I forgot. So today Mike Bender came to take a look at it. Even with a less than wonderful compression gauge, it didn't take him long to diagnose the likely trouble — a head gasket leak. When we pulled the head, sure enough, it showed a leak between #3 and #4. And why would that happen? Removing the head bolts was too easy. Apparently some absent-minded old man forgot to retorque the head after last year's engine work. It's a bit embarrassing, but it's also a relief to find something so stupid and simple and easy to fix. I'll clean everything up and reinstall the head, correctly this time, and see how it goes.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring


Dallas Landers
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Re: Reluctant to start, gutless on hills, and...

Post by Dallas Landers » Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:27 pm

I wont laugh at you Steve, I will laugh with you. I tried to start my new engine yesterday. After wiring, set the timing , rebuilt coil box and all wires hooked up. Fuel line hooked up, 2 gallons of gas dumped in and shut off open. I cranked and cranked on the starter and not even a chuff! I took the line from the carb and had a full stream of fuel! Then it hit me, I even smiled a bit. Opened the carb adjustment and in about two turns it fired off! :oops:

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Rich Eagle
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Re: Reluctant to start, gutless on hills, and...

Post by Rich Eagle » Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:28 pm

Do check to see that the head bolts aren't bottoming out. They can stretch and torque right without cinching the head down. This allowed my gasket blow behind #4 cylinder after several miles.
Rich
When did I do that?


tdump
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Re: Reluctant to start, gutless on hills, and...

Post by tdump » Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:33 pm

Best I can remember the old bolts can stretch to,Tight as I am I try to use new headbolts when i get a motor together so at least long as I have i know the bolts are old and stretched.
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'

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Henry K. Lee
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Re: Reluctant to start, gutless on hills, and...

Post by Henry K. Lee » Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:42 pm

Quit beating yourself up old man, we all get into our therapy too deep sometimes. Cut and split about 15 cords of wood will clear your head. Logs are down, chainsaw/log splitter sharpen and serviced, cold drinks in the fridge. Tin-A-See will be pretty this Spring, wink wink.

Hank

We all have done similar!

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TRDxB2
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Re: Reluctant to start, gutless on hills, and...

Post by TRDxB2 » Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:11 pm

The difference between KNOWLEDGE and WISDOM
KNOWLEDGE is knowing what to do. WISDOM is remembering that someone made that mistake once before.


Norman Kling
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Re: Reluctant to start, gutless on hills, and...

Post by Norman Kling » Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:59 pm

The cost of a gasket is much less than some other things which could cause this. We've all been there. I know that you are quite knowledgeable about T's.
I had a similar problem with one of my T's. After I rebuilt the engine it never had much power than I thought it should and sometimes it ran better if I backed off the gas on a hill than when it was wide open. I just figured it was the weight of the car, because my two other T's are Roadsters and this is a Touring. Well! This is what I found. I had won as a door prize a high volume intake manifold at one of the tours. I had put it on the engine which was otherwise stock. I was using a standard NH carburetor. I wondered if that could be the cause? I put a stock intake manifold on the car and now it has a lot of pep and pulls hills in high which I used to need Ruckstell. If I had other speed equipment on the car, it might have been a lot different, but this is what I can compare it to. Try blowing out with your lips puckered. Notice how fast the air moves and how far it goes. Then try the same thing with your mouth open. No pressure at all. So I think that when I had the throttle completely open there was not enough air movement to suck in the gas. Not a problem when going fast on level with the throttle part open but when it was all the way open it just didn't get enough gas.
So the moral is, you need to use speed equipment in sets which are compatible with each other in order to get good results. And finish a job when started!
Norm


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Re: Reluctant to start, gutless on hills, and...

Post by modeltbarn » Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:05 pm

I did that on my '48 flathead F-1 (wish I still had it!)

Use a straight edge and be sure the head didn't warp, you don't want to trash another gasket.

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AdminJeff
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Re: Reluctant to start, gutless on hills, and...

Post by AdminJeff » Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:33 am

We've all been there. At least you remembered to put oil in it after the rebuild... I can Accurately report that a newly rebuilt Model T engine will indeed run without oil. At least For a few minutes and about a half mile. That's when you hear the rods start to rattle and then that sinking, gut wrenching feeling overcomes you when you realize that what just transpired could not in any way, possibly happen, but it Just did.

That day's take away: Never, ever work on your T the same day you get released from the Emergency Room.

The older I get the more I find myself shaking my head at myself.

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tmodeldriver
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Re: Reluctant to start, gutless on hills, and...

Post by tmodeldriver » Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:38 am

Good luck replacing your head gasket, Steve.

My dad taught me this many years ago when I was a teenager. Before you drain the oil from any vehicle tie a rag to the steering wheel. This will remind you not to crank it up with no oil.

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Charlie B in N.J.
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Re: Reluctant to start, gutless on hills, and...

Post by Charlie B in N.J. » Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:42 am

sometimes you just forget what you thought you knew.
Forget everything you thought you knew.

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Angmar
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Re: Reluctant to start, gutless on hills, and...

Post by Angmar » Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:58 pm

Steve, I have a rather funny one to share.

Right after I got the new engine in my T I took it to a local car show to help break it in. While I was there a group of kids (8-10 years of age) came up and started asking a lot of very insightful questions about the T. I was asked to show how it started so I did and while I was setting the spark/throttle from the driver's side one of the girls asked me question. She wanted to know why the spark plugs were going up and down. I had no idea what she was talking about so came around to that side of the T and sure enough they were all moving up and down while the motor was running.

I had forgotten to tighten up the plugs after installing the motor, dumb me, the kids did not laugh although they could have. I am surprised that I had no performance issues on the way to the show( I did go over everything very closely after that). Things have been fine since although I regularly check things to make sure nothing has come loose or fallen off.
Still crankin old iron


tdump
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Re: Reluctant to start, gutless on hills, and...

Post by tdump » Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:56 pm

Well it was my turn in the corner today. I went to change oil in my Zero turn lawnmower. I had the plug out,it drained it,forgot to put it back in,lost a half quart before I figured it out.
DUH! :cry:

I have to service my stuff kinda early in the year as other folks have me service their equipment AFTER their grass gets about 8 inches high! :shock: They are in no hurry until about 4 days later,a day or so before the parts get here, "wheres my lawnmower my grass needs mowing!?" i have actually sent a old ugly duckly mower home with them to mow with and bring back so I don't get hounded. Before you think I am nuts, this thing is UGLY but mows like a champ.No one wants to keep it,no one wants to steal it,they always bring it back.And it is tough as nails.
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'


tdump
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Re: Reluctant to start, gutless on hills, and...

Post by tdump » Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:54 pm

Norman, I reread your experiance with the big intake and I am wondering if I have a similar situation.I have 1 of those things ,much larger and curved in such a way the air preheater won't fit without modification.
Going up a hill,I am better off not to lay the ears all the way back so to speak. I don't want to highjack the thread but is this a normal thing with the big intakes? Do others run a straight thru NH maby?
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'

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