Transmission Disaster avoided

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L.I. Tom
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Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by L.I. Tom » Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:45 pm

Towards the end of the season last year I had to adjust the low pedal band several times had a feeling something was up.
Found this at 10 o'clock this morning
Found this at 10 o'clock this morning
Motor out for o'clock this afternoon
Motor out for o'clock this afternoon
Will post more as I progress.

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George House
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Re: Disaster avoided

Post by George House » Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:00 pm

WHAAA...?...assuming you have a Canadian T
(as I see by your RH steering column); were the manifolds really on the left side of the engine ??😜
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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by Les Schubert » Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:06 pm

“Selfie” mode does that!!


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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by L.I. Tom » Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:30 pm

Yup selfie mode I didn't realize it reversed it.

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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by RajoRacer » Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:31 pm

What band lining you running ?


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L.I. Tom
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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by L.I. Tom » Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:58 pm

Give you one guess.

OK Kevlar, For the last 7 or 8000 miles Since rebuild. It was my 1st transmission rebuilt I did Not have it Magnifluxed But did clean up look it over and then do the thinner test looking for cracks. Could have missed them Before they grew or could have caused them.
20200301_204701.jpg
Not one crack but two
Not one crack but two


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L.I. Tom
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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by L.I. Tom » Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:45 pm

Almost 12 Hours after Discovering the cracks have it ready to pull transmission apart. Will have to wait for another day.
Ready to pull transmission apart
Ready to pull transmission apart


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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by tdump » Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:36 pm

I doubt seriously you missed both of those cracks when you rebuilt it.Something happened in that 7000 miles probably

Just looking and thinking,you wouldn't need to remove the trans from the engine to replace the drums would you?
Last edited by tdump on Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by Scott_Conger » Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:37 pm

Thomas, you should really consider looking for a better transmission. Pitting on both brake and reverse is too severe for me to consider putting into anything of mine ...I'd start searching with a WTB ad in the PARTS forum.
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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by Steve Jelf » Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:57 pm

Lots of fuzz to clean out. Be sure your engine oil line is clear.
The inevitable often happens.
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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by Kerry » Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:05 am

It gets in everything, can block the oil holes in the mains and even get all tangled up in the oil rings.


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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by L.I. Tom » Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:59 am

I have 5 other transmission Sets to look through hopefully I will find good drums with those.Yes there was fuzz everywhere Amazingly somehow the internal oil line was still clear the mag most oiler was plugged up.I will remove transmission leaving flywheel on engine,Everything else looks good was a good runner good compression will probably check bearing Clearances while I have it apart.


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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by Bobbbenner » Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:27 am

Hi Tom,
Looks like you’ve been busy!


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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by John kuehn » Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:46 am

You might already know this but when replacing a cracked drum with with another one good used drum can sometimes cause a noisy transmission. Not always but sometimes. It happened to me after I had rebuilt T transmissions over time with no major noise issues. I had read about it here on this forum but no issues until the last one.
Its probably best to replace with with a set instead of individually but that’s up to the individually.
In my case I had used a low speed cracked drum with a ‘good’ drum that after looking closely had a very slight worn drum gear. It looked to me that it was ‘worn’ about the same as the other good drums but what a difference it can make as far as noise goes!
It had a whine that wasent all that bad but I went ahead and found another that was a better match and quieter. All OK now but maybe I got lucky.


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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by Norman Kling » Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:09 am

The bluish color of the drum is a key that the band has been dragging. This is usually caused by a worn notch and cam on the low pedal shaft. This is what happens. You have to tighten the low band too tight in order to get the band to lock before the pedal hits the floor board. So the band drags all the time you are in neutral, high, or reverse. It only stops dragging when the band is tight in low gear. That continual drag overheats the drum which gives it the blue color. eventually the drum cracks. So even if you replace all the drums and get new bands you will still have the same problem until you replace the notch and cam. I know this from experience after breaking two drums on the same car. I have not had that problem since I replaced the shaft, cam and notch.
Norm


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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by Larry e rutt » Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:24 am

On the top picture looks how worn smooth the low speed drum is..maybe indicating a significant drag ?


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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by L.I. Tom » Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:36 pm

The color of the drum in the photo is misleading it is Not blue Just shinier than the rest because it gets the most use, reverse Drum not so much brake drum not at all. When I got the car it had Rocky Mountain brakes installed and the Ford transmission brake was not used. I know there is opinions pro and con to this practice But so far it's worked out well. When I rebuilt the motor and transmission I left it that way the only thing I changed was putting lined emergency Brake shoes on So that when stopped Uphill it would still hold. Can't always count on those rocky's holding backwards. Cam and notch Where replaced when I rebuilt it and still look fine whenever I adjusted the band I always made sure that I had a free neutral If the band was too tight I would not be able to roll the car back-and-forth by hand due band drag, I think would someone please correct me if I'm wrong on that point. In the warmer months I use the car pretty regularly and I am thinking Due to too much slippage When I put the car away, I keep it in a cargo trailer sometimes I probably slipped the low band too much going up the ramp.
Last edited by L.I. Tom on Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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L.I. Tom
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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by L.I. Tom » Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:38 pm

Yeah Bob it's been a busy Winter just discovered this yesterday don't know If it's possible but going to try to get it together for the Westhampton Saint Patrick's day parade in 2 weeks I think. Wish me luck.


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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by L.I. Tom » Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:46 pm

I know it could get noisy with a drum change but I will hope for the best. I have at 1st glance what I think is a nice looking set of drums from a later model transmission can anyone tell me for shore I believe they are the same as the earlier low and reverse drums Or are there differences.

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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by dykker5502 » Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:09 pm

Make sure the bands are actually round so that all the movement goes to press towards the drum, and not make it fit the drum. If not round it will also drag somewhat. I used a roller to make it true round.
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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by J and M Machine » Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:24 pm

L.I. Tom wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:46 pm
I know it could get noisy with a drum change but I will hope for the best. I have at 1st glance what I think is a nice looking set of drums from a later model transmission can anyone tell me for shore I believe they are the same as the earlier low and reverse drums Or are there differences.
The Low speed and reverse are the same throughout the Model T years.
Your pictoral example is the reason why we started making and selling drums.
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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by Scott_Conger » Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:54 pm

Really nice looking stuff, John

Thanks for making them.
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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by L.I. Tom » Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:28 pm

John they are beautiful I have seen them, one day I believe I will own a set but not yet. Thank you for the info on the high and low drum application.


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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by Jeff Hood » Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:37 pm

Check everything in the engine! One of our club members had a cracked drum with Kevlar and in addition to the fuzz there was a sandy/gritty substance everywhere, in all the bearings, and even in the rings. Had to completely disassemble and clean the engine.


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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by L.I. Tom » Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:48 pm

Norman you are absolutely right and I was wrong My apologies. Here are some photos it got hot at some point I'm thinking probably Slipping it when I'm going up into my trailer. Here are a few pictures
Two cracks 1 at 12 o'clock 1 out about 3:30
Two cracks 1 at 12 o'clock 1 out about 3:30
It got hot
It got hot
Lots of goo funnell was amazingly clean but havn't blown the tube yet
Lots of goo funnell was amazingly clean but havn't blown the tube yet


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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by Allan » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:06 am

I don't follow that the first gear drum gets most use. In proper use, there is band slippage only until the band is clamped to engage bottom gear fully.
The brake band however, slips constantly under varying loads, unless the back wheels are locked up! The brake band is also used more frequently than the first gear bands
It is nice to replace the brake drum and driven plate from the same source, as the outer edge of the driven plate forms part of the braking surface It is rare that two components from different sources match, causing a step in the braking surface.

Hope it turns out well. Allan from down under.


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L.I. Tom
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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by L.I. Tom » Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:21 pm

Put together some decent drums with no cracks, new Bushings where needed cleaned up the gunk putting her back together.

Compressing Spring
Compressing Spring
Spring compressor
Spring compressor
Transmission back together just need to wire Drive plate bolts
Transmission back together just need to wire Drive plate bolts
Going back together
Going back together


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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by Scott_Conger » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:16 pm

Good for you

make sure your bands are R-O-U-N-D
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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by Thorlick » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:39 pm

Thomas, I don’t understand your title “Transmission disaster avoided”. It seems you have hit the all to frequent Kevlar disaster. Once you’ve replaced the low drum and flushed out the Kevlar remnants do you plan on installing a different lining material?

TH
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Re: Transmission Disaster avoided

Post by Tbz4u » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:54 pm

You better check low band knotch. Ive ran kevlars for years. I find if you have to ajust them more often than not its the knotch

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