LETS TALK REAR ENDS

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Richard G
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LETS TALK REAR ENDS

Post by Richard G » Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:38 pm

I KNOW A GUY THAT HAS A PILE OF MODEL T REAR ENDS. (NO) RIVET TYPE, HOW DO YOU TELL WHAT YEAR YOUR LOOKING AT, OR CAN YOU TELL. THE 26-7 HAVE BIG DRUMS , ITS 25 BACK TO SAY 1915, JUST THINKING IT WOULD BE NICE TO KNOW WHAT IM LOOKING AT.


Wayne Sheldon
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Re: LETS TALK REAR ENDS

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:13 pm

A quick off the top of my head.
1915 has smooth backing plates, no reinforcement ribs can be seen on the visible when assembled center side of the backing plate.
'16 to about '18 USA have the ribs (Canadian still do not), but still have the oil plug/embossment in line with one of the pumpkin bolts.
'18 to '20ish will have the lower oil plug, and higher embossment on the non-plug side. These between pumpkin bolts. These years will still have the earlier stepped and crude inner machining used for the enclosed driveshaft spool. The stepped sides are needed to align the spool to the pumpkin.
1920ish changed to the open pinion spool, which required a better machining inside to seat the spool, but did NOT need the machined step edge that the enclosed spool needed. So that edge is usually tapered a bit, and left rough.
1920ish through the '25 model year did not change significantly, although there some slight change in quality of castings and riveting for those that want to get quite anal about the year of parts.
Sometimes, later housings can be found with a variation where the brake cam is installed. No bushing, and a single rivet cam arm unlike the more common two rivet cam arm. I have seen several of these, had a few years ago before I knew the difference, but have never heard just what it means. Whether they are earlier or late, replacements or a substitute supplier? I don't know.

For general information, while many T parts will interchange across years, and all the '13 through '27 pumpkins can be bolted together? One should never mix the earlier and/or later housings across the open or closed spool change about 1920. Earlier housings should always be matched with earlier housings, and matched with closed pinion spools. And later housings should always be matched with later housings and coupled to open pinion spools. While they can be made to fit and work just fine (with a bit of effort), and often can work okay even just thrown together? The mismatch of early and late of any of those three pieces also can result in the gears not mating properly. Massive failure can later occur. Internal parts, for the most part (with the exception of pinion bearing to spool!), can be swapped early and late from 1912 through '27 without serious issues

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Richard G
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Re: LETS TALK REAR ENDS

Post by Richard G » Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:20 pm

wow , thank you Wayne, im going to pick up a rear, i have a 21 p u, and been picking up things to make shure when my son is the next care taker it will come with a tool box of parts to help it on its way, tomorrow i will be making a visit to that pile. thanks again. GREG

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dobro1956
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Re: LETS TALK REAR ENDS

Post by dobro1956 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:15 am

When buying rear ends, I have never figured out how to tell a good one from a bad one. Sometimes the nasty, dirty, rust pitted rear axle housing rear ends, will have almost perfect insides. Then a real nice looking rear end will have nothing useable inside ??? If cheap enough I usually just buy several and mine out what parts are good.

have fun and be safe ...........


Wayne Sheldon
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Re: LETS TALK REAR ENDS

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:19 am

Hey there Donnie B! I have had the same experience. Most of the best internal parts I have ever had came from the worst looking rear ends. A few nice looking rear ends, even being driven in then recent years? Had nothing of value inside. I still have a couple ugly looking units sitting and waiting. I haven't needed the insides, so I just keep them hoping they will have what I need when I need it.


Stephen_heatherly
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Re: LETS TALK REAR ENDS

Post by Stephen_heatherly » Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:52 am

dobro1956 wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:15 am
When buying rear ends, I have never figured out how to tell a good one from a bad one. Sometimes the nasty, dirty, rust pitted rear axle housing rear ends, will have almost perfect insides. Then a real nice looking rear end will have nothing useable inside ??? If cheap enough I usually just buy several and mine out what parts are good.

have fun and be safe ...........
Few rear axles are any good. If you get lucky you may find a couple of good axle bearings, good differential parts and perhaps a decent axle shaft. Other than that the internals are usually junk.

Stephen


John kuehn
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Re: LETS TALK REAR ENDS

Post by John kuehn » Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:05 am

Good rear ends are where you find them. Or it use to be anyway. Use to be that T parts were fairly plentiful in the country side and in central Texas at farm auctions there was always T trailers, engines and etc. Now not so much.
Before he sold his farm I bought my neighbors T trailer that was a 24 sedan that his family had quit driving and removed the body and junked it.
The rear end looked good and felt tight. I built my first T from the best parts and body parts I could find. Yes it was a cobbled together T Roadster that I still drive with the 24 rear end under it that I still drive. Ive had more trouble with the engine and nothing from the rear end.
Maybe one of these days I’ll rebuild it. And yes it has never been opened up by me. Lucky I guess. And yes it’s usually best to rebuild a T rear end because of the axle washers.

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Richard G
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Re: LETS TALK REAR ENDS

Post by Richard G » Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:33 pm

WELL I WENT OVER WHERE THE REAR ENDS LIVE, BROUGHT MY KING SIZE PLYER'S AND GRABBED THE U JOINT AND THE FIRST ONE HATED TO TURN, NEXT ONE TURNED FINE BUT HAD NO HUBS OR DRUMS --SO I TOOK IT, THE NEXT I COULD TURN WITH MY HAND, TWISTED BACK AND FORTH NOT MUCH PLAY, LOADED THEM ,THEY NOW LIVE IN MY STORAGE BULDG, SAFE AND SOUND OUT OF THE WEATHER ,FOR THE FIRST TIME IN YEARS, IT WAS INTERESTING READING ABOUT THE MODEL T REARS, I KNOW A LOT MORE THAN I DID LAST WEEK, THANKS ALL, NEXT WINTER IM GOING TO TAKE ONE APART FOR A LOOKSEE JUST TO KNOW ..


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Re: LETS TALK REAR ENDS

Post by Speedsterguy2 » Sat Mar 07, 2020 3:39 pm

Well, I have been busy tearing down rear ends to find good pieces for 2 Ruckstell rebuilds. Am now on 4 loose differentials with axles and 3 additional rear ends in their housings. The spider gear sets seem to be a bit of a problem. The spider gear shafts on many are galled on one of the 3 arms, and the spider gears themselves seem to have quite a bit of wear on the I.D. I have found 3 different style differential assemblies among these (in addition to the 2 Ruckstells), including one with "DB" logo that has the spider gears all running bronze bushings on 5/8" shafts. That spider is pretty good: I may replace the bushings and run it in my 1919 even though it was original to 1911-1914.

The shoulder diameter of the axle gears seem to take quite a bit of wear also. Specifications say they should be 1.806-1.807", and should run 0.005-0.006" clearance on the differential holes. The best axle gears I have found measure 1.805", and most are at or below 1.800". I do find that the axle gear shoulder on the ring gear side seem to frequently have less wear than the one on the other side, so maybe I will take the 4 best axle gears from ring gear sides. The wear surface of the differential holes where the axle gears ride are also worn, with most measuring 1.0810-1.0815, and some up to 1.0825". Here also, the ring gear differential sides seem to have less wear. So, piecing together a rear end is quite a challenge, if you want to get close to original clearance specifications!

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Richard G
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Re: LETS TALK REAR ENDS

Post by Richard G » Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:12 pm

SPEEDSTER GUY-2--HOW MANY PARTS FROM A REGULAR REAR WILL FIT A RUCKSTELL,-BOY ,NEVER SEE ONE ONLY IN PICTURES. NEAT UNIT.


Speedsterguy2
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Re: LETS TALK REAR ENDS

Post by Speedsterguy2 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:05 am

I am using mainly the axle gears, the spider, and the spider gears. The 3 legs of the spider need to be ground down shorter to fit in the Ruckstell carrier. New axles, a variety of new Ruckstell parts (thankyou Chaffins!), and reusing what I can from the old Ruckstells. Had to break down one rear assembly to get an early right half housing to match the Ruckstell original left housing set up for a cast spool. That Ruckstell came to me with half from a cast spool early setup, and the other side from a later open spool setup. Apparently it had been run that way, until it landed out behind an Oregon barn for a couple of decades. I heard about it from an appliance repairman, went to find it out along the Willamette River, and had to give .........$150. for it. Of course it was in the 1990's.

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