Engine Rebuild Cost Estimate

23modelT · Post by **23modelT** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:52 pm

Hey everyone,

Trying to get a rough price estimate on an engine rebuild. My 1923 Ford Model T runabout had low compression (but still ran) and needed all new pistons, piston rings, valves, guides, new camshaft, new timing gear, "re-babbited", new transmission bands, etc (basically a full-engine rebuild). Also the magneto is being rebuilt 100% too. The actual engine block is OK and did not need replacing (just cleaned and repainted).

What would be a fair estimate on this rebuild from a professional?

Right now the parts estimate from the shop is $4,000 (not including labor). The crankshaft is being rebuilt, but is not new. The camshaft is new.

I trust the shop doing the work, but their price estimate (including labor) seems far too high.

Would love to hear what you guys think!

Thank you,
Nate

P.S. This is my first time posting on MTFCA Forum!

Post by **tdump** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:23 pm

WOW~! That kinda money keeps the poor people out of the hobby for sure.

Post by **John kuehn** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:18 pm

This is why people go to swap meets and find some good parts for their T and try to do a rebuild themselves. The cost does add up with all new parts. Depending on the condition of the Babbitt the cost keeps going up. Are you sure all of your engine parts need replacing? Some people have the attitude all the parts are bad and all new is what’s needed.
Some will do a refresh and repair or replace what it needs instead of getting a parts book and buy everything new which gets pretty high.
Some will tell you to do it right or don’t do it at all. That’s fine if you have a pocket full of money but for a lot of us that’s to much.

Post by **rickd** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:45 pm

Nate, clarifying your question; is the $4K estimate for an engine rebuild, transmission rebuild and the magneto rebuilt?

Post by **TWrenn** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:31 pm

Nate...you're not far from Tiffin Ohio.
Take it to Joe Bell. You'll get top quality work, at half that price, unless the engine
is real bad and needs sleeved or something. That kind of stuff, he doesn't even "pad" the
cost from the machine shop, he passes it straight on.
Here's his cell number. Leave a msg. if he doesn't answer, he will soon. Tell him Tim sent ya!!
They always like to hear of a recomendation.

419-618-1025

Post by **Roz** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:48 pm

4K does not sound unreasonable to me for parts. By the time you do the machining on the block and buy all the parts, you won't be far from that. The last several engines I have built have bumped that amount. He said new cam, pistons, rods, valves, mains redone, crank ground, magneto, transmission, etc, etc. I don't see how you can do it for much less. I've had trouble getting parts due to back orders, and prices have gone up, making it more difficult to complete an engine in a decent time frame.

I would be happy to list the parts and current prices here if desired.

Post by **Dallas Landers** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:51 pm

He states " $4000.00 just parts" no labor. That I believe is the question on cost.

Dropacent · Post by **Dropacent** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:54 pm

Nate, listen to Tim Wrenn. Politely go get it, thank them. Pay them for what they’ve done. There is no such thing as rebuilding a crankshaft. If they did “Rebuild “ it , pay them and consider it a lesson. You are not far from Ohio, we will let you across the border. Worth the drive. AND, tell him two Tim’s sent ya !

Post by **FreighTer Jim** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:22 pm

Welcome Nate

Many folks never post - so congratulations

I don’t know how far you are from Bismark, IL
but there is a nice guy ( Brian Cress ) who has rebuilt a lot of Model T engines.

I don’t know how busy he is - but I can pass along his cell number if you want to give me a call.

FJ
260-804-6695

Post by **Roz** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:38 pm

He probably meant to say that the crankshaft was being reground, not rebuilt. If I got an estimate from somebody (professional) who said he could rebuild a complete engine and transmission for $2,000 in parts, I think I would keep looking. You can't do it now for what you could a year ago. I'm not in any way being critical of anyone else that builds engines. I just don't think you can do it for much less than 4 grand in parts unless you let some things go.

Block machining ?
Babbit/line bore 500
Grind crankshaft 75
Piston set 120
Rings 45
New Rods 476
Gasket set 51
Head bolts 25
New cam 400
New valves 72
Valve springs 15
Valve hardware 20
Modern cam/main seals 12
Timing Gears 90
Adj lifters 110
Coil Ring 235
Magnet hardware 50
Ring gear 45
Trans bushings 60
Triple gear pins/bush 75
Clutch spring 30
Band linings 140
Trans cams, notch 65
4th main 60
Rebuilt starter 400
Rebuilt generator 400

The above totals about $3,600. I have assumed good transmission drums and clutch plates. I have not included things like spark plugs, fasteners, gasket sealant, paint, and other miscellaneous things you always find you need. It also does not include block machining which can vary, but probably will take it to $4,000 total.

Post by **Oldav8tor** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:46 pm

In late 2018 I paid $4400 for a total rebuild of engine and transmission. That included block machining, a new coil ring and a flywheel with a ring gear that would accept a starter. We went with upgraded valves, aluminum pistons, kevlar bands, etc., etc. I thought it was a fair price.

Post by **tdump** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:16 pm

I am thinking 800 for starter and gen,if all that is functional currently,why swap it?
Some folks go thru 1 like it is a Cadilac 8 that will be flying down the interstate at 80mph for 6 hours straight headed to granma's.

J and M Machine · Post by **J and M Machine** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:16 pm

23modelT wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:52 pm
Hey everyone,

Trying to get a rough price estimate on an engine rebuild. My 1923 Ford Model T runabout had low compression (but still ran) and needed all new pistons, piston rings, valves, guides, new camshaft, new timing gear, "re-babbited", new transmission bands, etc (basically a full-engine rebuild). Also the magneto is being rebuilt 100% too. The actual engine block is OK and did not need replacing (just cleaned and repainted).

What would be a fair estimate on this rebuild from a professional?

Right now the parts estimate from the shop is $4,000 (not including labor). The crankshaft is being rebuilt, but is not new. The camshaft is new.

I trust the shop doing the work, but their price estimate (including labor) seems far too high.

Would love to hear what you guys think!

Thank you,
Nate

P.S. This is my first time posting on MTFCA Forum!

$4k doesn't seem at all out of the ordinary. I would ask the shop what is included in the parts list and then sitdown open a Snyder's or Lang's catalog and start writing every part needed to rebuild a Model T properly. You will be surprised that the shop may not be far off and may have forgotten a few things.
If the transmission drums are bad and or drive plate, outputshaft,pedal shafts, mag field and so on. All the parts prices have gone up and I haven't gotten to the labor costs yet.
Unfortunately you're in for a surpise as the cost to do an engine for a Model T correctly without using old parts that are "Good enough" will cost more than the vehicle is worth for a non brass car.

We have done alot of the $2295 specials over again; no crack inspection, lead babbitt, no crack repairs, used parts. For someone that will drive the car 3 miles every ten years it's a deal; long as the crank doesn't break.
Depending on how you intend to drive the car and it's use it's worth it to fix it and not look back.
The unfortunate part of a Model T is that you have to do engine and transmission together for it to work properly ,hence the overall cost to repair.

There used to be a Model T expert on this forum from our state, well he talked a good game but his machine work was terrible.
His work was our best customer as we received 3 engines to do over again.
Imagine those poor folks that paid for what they thought was a rebuild only to have us redo it again ,. To tune of 10-12k to undo what damage he'd caused.

With any engine, the shop you bring it to has to understand the intracacies of what's in front of them rather than a coat of paint, it has to be rebuilt well in order to last. We'll be waiting for the sob story that goes along with the engine when it's in pieces because customer thought they got a "Good Deal".

Post by **TWrenn** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:26 pm

Dennis, with all due respect, and for the sake of your wallet,
you need to meet up with Joe Bell. This guys IS professional, and DOES
do a complete engine/trans. job for under $3,000. I had him build me
up a COMPLETE engine/trans. from the crankcase up, hi compression pistons,
Stipe 280 cam, new Kevlars, re-furbished trans. drums, the works. $3100.

You CAN get a professional job done without breaking the bank, you just
gotta look, and of course, be lucky enough like we here in Ohio are to be close
to one. That and other reasons is why a few years ago I started a campaign to
get him nominated to the Rosenthal Award. Too bad it didn't work.

Post by **Dallas Landers** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:41 pm

Tim is correct. If you are at all close, talk to joe Bell. I have two engine he built and am very happy with them.

Post by **Duey_C** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:03 pm

Welcome to The Forum Nate!
I think John and plenty others sum it up pretty nicely. KNOW what you're getting before pulling the trigger.
But if the shop has the engine all apart already, they may feel they "have you over a barrel".
If they're close on parts pricing perhaps let them but do they know ANYTHING about a model T?
The connection between the engine proper and the transmission is so important.
Will they grind the correct radius's on the crank journals?
What's their labor estimate gonna be? $2000?
The 4 grand for parts only and no transmission rebuild (just bands if I read it right) seems a bit much.
The guys right here could teach you how to do the bands. I might even have a skoche of wisdom.
Other than that, get that engine to a T guy and he'll do it properly.

Had a larger 4 cylinder, 413 cube OT short-block done last summer. Larger = more expensive I think. $4500 included grinding the crank (needed it bad- 100 pound crank .018" out of true), re-Babbitting, align boring, shims, boring the cylinders, re-decking the block, re-Babbitting and boring the rods, shims, new pistons, pins, rings, a cam grind, rear seal and fitting it all together. That also included the labor.
I'll put another grand into the heads very soon and I'm not even mentioning the sundries nor the parts I wait for to...
Two little pennies.

Keep us up to date on that engine project.

Post by **Roz** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:27 pm

Like I said, I’m not disparaging any other engine builder. I’m sure they must know some secrets I don’t and I’m open to learn. Maybe I should go visit them. The OP asked if 4000 was reasonable for parts. I listed most of the common parts I replace when I build an engine and got the prices out of one of our preferred vendors catalog because those are the prices I have to pay. Maybe some of the bigger engine builders get special prices, I don’t know. As far as things like a starter and generator, if the owner wants to reuse the old ones because they are working ok, those parts are not warranted. I quoted my cost from the best man in that business. Some things I will not compromise on because my reputation is at stake. When an owner and I agree on an engine rebuild, it’s because he agreed to do it all or find somebody else. Some car owners don’t really care what’s in their engine as long as it runs, and that’s ok. Those are not my clients. I understand that not everyone wants or can afford the cost. It’s all good and there is plenty of room for all of us in the hobby. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it!

Post by **Divcoone** » Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:39 pm

Another Joe Bell happy customer.

perry kete · Post by **perry kete** » Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:38 am

I personally think this question should have been ask BEFORE you took it to a shop not after.

Post by **MWalker** » Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:49 am

I'll join the line of folks recommending Joe Bell.

Post by **Henry K. Lee** » Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:07 am

It's hard to question a reliable shop you have had work done in the past. If you trust them, have the funds, then let them do the work. Their prices for everything are in a ball park so to speak. You will not get a return on your investment with the funny market and interest in this hobby but piece of mind and meet great people.

My $0.03 worth,

Hank

Post by **NealW** » Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:27 am

Right now the parts estimate from the shop is $4,000 (not including labor). The crankshaft is being rebuilt, but is not new. The camshaft is new.

Do you have an itemized estimate of the parts needed and if so, have you compared it to the list that Roz posted? I just got my rebuilt 15 engine back, and the itemized parts bill is in the ball park for the items that he listed that my rebuild needed. The biggest difference for my rebuild is that there is no starter or generator that needed work, since mine is equipped with an "armstrong" starter!

donald4ham · Post by **donald4ham** » Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:04 pm

I took a pile of parts to Joe Bell and he made a nice running engine and trans for me for a very fair price and I was missing alot of small parts . You will not be disappointed with Joe.

John Warren · Post by **John Warren** » Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:56 am

Dennis shows how much just parts cost. Just parts for Dads engine was in line with Dennis's estimate plus I put in a new scat crank. I didn't install a magring or new cam (advanced a good original 7 deg.)and I did my own starter and generator work. Just parts was right at $5,000

23modelT · Post by **23modelT** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:14 am

ALL,

Thank you very much for the detailed and extremely kind/helpful responses!

As there's a bit too much here for me to handle, I will leave this at one response (please forgive me).

We will talk to the shop soon and provide your input/thoughts on pricing.

The guy's reasonable and willing to work with us, so we'll show him what the market is demanding on this kind of job.

Much appreciated!

See you on the road (and maybe even on that coast-to-coast tour one day.......)!!!!!
Nate

Post by **Adam** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:53 am

I just skimmed thru this thread.

The question is directly in line with a similar question from a completely different hobby: How much should a decent set of golf clubs cost?

Answer: Most people will tell you that what they have is the best. (And what they really mean is that it was the best choice for them). Other than that... Wide difference in costs and opinions. Wide difference in what you need versus what you get. Wide differences in quality. Wide difference in costs, from several hundred to nearly 10 grand. And you will know what you have when you’ve used it for a season.

Post by **RustyFords** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:26 pm

So fortunate to be less than an hour's drive from Lilleker's.

Ross does great work at fair prices.

Post by **J1MGOLDEN** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:41 pm

My last engine block rebuild cost about $3,000.

The machinist told me that on an average only one in 4 blocks are crack free and worth rebuilding.

The earlier blocks are more likely to have the most cracks.

The main problem is that the cracks do not show up until the block is bare and completely clean.

Cracks can be repaired with several methods, but most are expensive.

Stitching is the best and most expensive repair method.

david_dewey · Post by **david_dewey** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:46 pm

Y'all are gonna "hate" me; a few years ago at a swap meet, at noon (near quitting time for that meet) I bought a T engine in parts, ready to go together from a well-respected T guy who had to downsize. All rebabbitted, machined, ready to go. $400--that's what he asked, and I gladly paid it. No, didn't include drums, etc, just a short block, but what a deal!!! If I hadn't known the seller, and his reputation for good work, I would have kept walking. Haven't had time yet to assemble it, but getting closer to it!
Normally, I would say these prices others posted are "in the ballpark" but once in a while you find a "sleeper."

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