Compressed Air Breakin
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
-
Topic author - Posts: 116
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:34 pm
- First Name: David
- Last Name: Kahle
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '26 coupe, '26 touring, ‘14 Staude tractor conversion, '27 coupe, '19 roadster, ’15 speedster, '14 touring
- Location: Leeper, Pa.
Compressed Air Breakin
Here are a few (not too good) videos of my 1914 rebuilt engine running on compressed air. Probably screwed it up - you'll figure it out!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLWcRRVQkvs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLWcRRVQkvs
-
- Posts: 60
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:01 am
- First Name: James
- Last Name: Bennington
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 Roadster
- Location: NC
- Board Member Since: 2018
-
- Posts: 2477
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:30 pm
- First Name: Dave
- Last Name: Hjortnaes
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 24 Speedster, 20 touring
- Location: Men Falls, WI
- MTFCA Number: 28762
- MTFCI Number: 22402
Re: Compressed Air Breakin
Neat. Looks and sounds like a locomotive.
-
- Posts: 596
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:10 pm
- First Name: Brad
- Last Name: Kirtner
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Touring Car, 1927 Closed Cab TT, 1927 Coupe
- Location: Salem, Virginia
- MTFCA Number: 50618
- Board Member Since: 2018
Re: Compressed Air Breakin
I’d be interested to know how you made this setup.
Brad
Brad
-
- Posts: 167
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:48 pm
- First Name: Kim
- Last Name: Wynn
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 Roadster & 1927 Speedster
- Location: Morris, IL
Re: Compressed Air Breakin
Timer supplies electrical circuit to open and close air solenoid valves that are attached to the head at the spark plug hole. The air supplied through the solenoid operated air valves are taking the place of ignition cycle. Is my assessment correct?
-
- Posts: 2293
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:25 pm
- First Name: George
- Last Name: House
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: ‘10 Maxwell AA, ‘11Hupp Model 20, Two 1914 Ford runabouts, 19 centerdoor, 25 C Cab,26 roadster
- Location: Northern Caldwell County TX
- MTFCA Number: 115
- MTFCA Life Member: YES
- Board Member Since: 1999
Re: Compressed Air Breakin
Would it be possible to get a close up still shot of the made-up plumbing fittings manifold? Thank you
I don’t know why I turned out this way. My parents were decent people.
-
- Posts: 1518
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:28 pm
- First Name: Duane
- Last Name: Cooley
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 18 Runabout, 24 Runabout for 20yrs, 25 TT, late Center Door project, open express pickup
- Location: central MN
- MTFCA Number: 32488
- Board Member Since: 2015
Re: Compressed Air Breakin
Kim sure nailed it. Pretty darn cool video David!
Nice OT Wallis in the background.
Nice OT Wallis in the background.
Since I lost my mind mind, I feel more liberated
-
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:53 pm
- First Name: Dennis
- Last Name: P
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 Coupe, 1925 TT, 1927 Speedster, 1931 Model A
- Location: Humboldt TN
- MTFCA Number: 31449
- MTFCI Number: 24373
- Board Member Since: 2012
Re: Compressed Air Breakin
What is the advantage of “breaking in” an engine with air instead of running in the car?
-
- Posts: 6435
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
- First Name: Scott
- Last Name: Conger
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
- Location: Clark, WY
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Compressed Air Breakin
It's a clever set up, but at the risk of being flooded with hate mail, I think it has few benefits and a number of downsides.
Specifically, it is not running at any kind of normal operating pressure on any surface. Incessantly idling a new engine can have bad results for rings and I cannot believe that this setup improves things any in that regard. And finally, operating temperatures are not attained, thus none of the parts reach their designed operating dimensions.
Again, it's quite clever, but I don't see any net benefit coming out of this, particularly given the effort expended to accomplish it. It is sort of a Model T Marble machine; it's intesting to watch and listen to, provides no obvious benefit and took time, effort and a good deal of creativity to make, but in the end, solves no problem. And, yes, I know there are compressed air engines. A T is not a compressed air engine nor was it designed to be one, and I recognise that the OP is not suggesting this, so there's no point going down that path.
Giving credit where credit is due, I am guessing that this workshop either has generated, or will generat, a number if very interesting projects and devices based on the creativity on display here.
Specifically, it is not running at any kind of normal operating pressure on any surface. Incessantly idling a new engine can have bad results for rings and I cannot believe that this setup improves things any in that regard. And finally, operating temperatures are not attained, thus none of the parts reach their designed operating dimensions.
Again, it's quite clever, but I don't see any net benefit coming out of this, particularly given the effort expended to accomplish it. It is sort of a Model T Marble machine; it's intesting to watch and listen to, provides no obvious benefit and took time, effort and a good deal of creativity to make, but in the end, solves no problem. And, yes, I know there are compressed air engines. A T is not a compressed air engine nor was it designed to be one, and I recognise that the OP is not suggesting this, so there's no point going down that path.
Giving credit where credit is due, I am guessing that this workshop either has generated, or will generat, a number if very interesting projects and devices based on the creativity on display here.
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
-
- Posts: 1319
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:47 pm
- First Name: Les
- Last Name: Schubert
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 27 roadster 13 touring
- Location: Calgary
Re: Compressed Air Breakin
Consider that a lubricator is included in the air line, so the rings are being reasonably lubricated
-
Topic author - Posts: 116
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:34 pm
- First Name: David
- Last Name: Kahle
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '26 coupe, '26 touring, ‘14 Staude tractor conversion, '27 coupe, '19 roadster, ’15 speedster, '14 touring
- Location: Leeper, Pa.
Re: Compressed Air Breakin
I'll post answers as I have time. I don't enjoy reading long posts and assume you don't either. First, to answer the Model T Sanhedrin, the reason I originally developed the system was about a decade ago when I was in my Fordson phase. Fordson tractors share some engineering with the T but present a number of additional difficulties. They are notoriously hard to crank at any time and especially after a rebuild. From the factory they had no allowance for battery assist and required a strong magneto and a rapid stroke with the hand crank. They never did have an electric starter so the Armstrong method was required and they should not be towed to start due to the very deep worm gear reduction in the rear end. Towing can easily result in a broken brass ring gear and a tight engine increases the risk of that. The only other alternative is running them in on a power takeoff flat belt (that is what Henry did in the factory) but not everyone or every tractor has the flat belt option and not every rebuilder has the belt or the second necessary tractor. Hence the air assisted breakin idea. Video of that experiment is on Youtube and you can find it if you look a little. Not only was it fun - it was effective and a few hours of running on air made the engine much easier to turn over by hand. More to follow
-
- Posts: 6435
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
- First Name: Scott
- Last Name: Conger
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
- Location: Clark, WY
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Compressed Air Breakin
David
running a hand cranked tractor on air to limber it up makes all the sense in the world given what you described. Still am not convinced a car needs it, though I now know know you have a good sense of humor. Sanhedrin, indeed!
running a hand cranked tractor on air to limber it up makes all the sense in the world given what you described. Still am not convinced a car needs it, though I now know know you have a good sense of humor. Sanhedrin, indeed!
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
-
- Posts: 647
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:40 am
- First Name: CHARLIE
- Last Name: BRANCA
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: "27 Tudor / "23 Touring
- Location: Brick N.J.
- MTFCA Number: 28967
- Board Member Since: 2010
Re: Compressed Air Breakin
I'm with Scott on this. Very cool ingenious set up but if it's able to be turned over with air it's probably a lot easier just running it.
Forget everything you thought you knew.
-
- Posts: 387
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:04 am
- First Name: Tim
- Last Name: Rogers
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 Coupe & 1923 Runabout
- Location: South of the Adirondacks
- Board Member Since: 2013
Re: Compressed Air Breakin
Here's the schematic if you want to build one :
Very cool setup, I could listen to that all day!
Very cool setup, I could listen to that all day!
<o><o><o><o> Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks - Forum member since 2013 <o><o><o><o>
-
- Posts: 1319
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:47 pm
- First Name: Les
- Last Name: Schubert
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 27 roadster 13 touring
- Location: Calgary
Re: Compressed Air Breakin
I equivocate this to all the different perspectives in T ignition systems.
20 years ago I was trying to start my 13 and ended up towing it along my 1/4 mile of driveway. Fortunately my wife is a farm girl and was good help. This air crank method would have been well worth considering. Actually I have checked my “inventory” and I have 4-1/4” 12volt solenoids and I picked up a lubricator yesterday. I have a couple of hand crank engine projects and this sounds like a good option.
30 years ago I did a old Fordson tractor, but I was younger and stronger then. As I recall I wired the the ignition to a battery for the initial start!!
Anyway I am TOTALLY pro choice on this!!
20 years ago I was trying to start my 13 and ended up towing it along my 1/4 mile of driveway. Fortunately my wife is a farm girl and was good help. This air crank method would have been well worth considering. Actually I have checked my “inventory” and I have 4-1/4” 12volt solenoids and I picked up a lubricator yesterday. I have a couple of hand crank engine projects and this sounds like a good option.
30 years ago I did a old Fordson tractor, but I was younger and stronger then. As I recall I wired the the ignition to a battery for the initial start!!
Anyway I am TOTALLY pro choice on this!!
-
Topic author - Posts: 116
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:34 pm
- First Name: David
- Last Name: Kahle
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '26 coupe, '26 touring, ‘14 Staude tractor conversion, '27 coupe, '19 roadster, ’15 speedster, '14 touring
- Location: Leeper, Pa.
Re: Compressed Air Breakin
Actually the complexity issue is not so bad. You can use an old (cracked) cylinder head and a used head gasket at no cost. Once you have spent a few dollars and a few hours building the manifold and plumbing and wiring up a separate timer and harness the installation on the engine is about five or ten minutes. I remove the head, wiring, and timer as an assembly and keep it on the shelf as one piece. The fact that the engine can be run on the stand as soon as it will hold oil is convenient. The one in the video was found to have an oil leak at the mounting bracket that will require some brazing and I'm sure glad I found it before I installed it in a car. Another perceived benefit is that the engine can be run for a few hours after rebuild with relatively light weight high detergent oil to wash out all of the crud that you missed during rebuild. I have been intentionally overfilling the oil during the breakin to insure good front end lubrication since I don't have to worry about fouling the plugs etc.
-
- Posts: 979
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:42 pm
- First Name: Stan
- Last Name: Howe
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 2
- Location: Helena, MT
- MTFCA Number: 19133
- Board Member Since: 1999
Re: Compressed Air Breakin
Pretty ingenious although more time consuming that I would ever spend to do it. I have a gear reduction motor I picked up somewhere years ago that will turn the engine over at about 100 rpm, hangs on a cut off crank with a coupler and will run for days on end for about a nickels worth of electricity. I've used it several times to "break in" an engine not only on T's but several other engines in the last 30 or so years. It really does help, I think.
Cool idea, I like the chuff, chuff it makes as it rolling the engine over.
Cool idea, I like the chuff, chuff it makes as it rolling the engine over.