Anti Semitic History Controversy

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
CraneJon
Posts: 92
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:55 am
First Name: jon
Last Name: crane
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 T pickup, 1928 A, 1931 A
Location: rochester mich

Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by CraneJon » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:34 am

For those members around the Country, Dearborn and Henry Ford, father of our beloved fliver have been in the news this week. Seems the Dearborn Historic Society was publishing a well written and researched article relating one of Mr. Ford's quirks, anti Semitic opinions and the Dearborn Independent.

Dearborn Mayor O'Reilly learned of the cover story to the 275 member Dearborn Historic Society and forbid the newsletter's distribution. Free speech advocates have take up the cause and what was a local controversy involving reporting 100 year old history is now being reported in the NY Times, around the internet and on several news shows. Never a dull moment.


The Detroit Model T Club is holding the February meeting at the newly refurbished Strohs Brewery on Wednesday evening. They are considering the foray and may adopt the following Motion for release to the wire services. Enjoy and watch the news on Thursday.



… Detroit Model T Club Supports Dearborn Mayor…
At its February Meeting held at the STROHS Beer Hall on Wednesday Feb 6 the Detroit Model T Club voted to support the Dearborn Mayor and protect the reputation of the club’s idol…Henry Ford. Rewrite history and censor the press.. The vote was 27 to 1 with only one Detroit Model T Club member voting in favor of issuing the reputation damaging fake news article about Henry Ford by the Dearborn Hysterical Society. For more information about joining this exclusive esoteric society of Model T Ford afficandos, contact Mark

The Detroit Model T Club addressed this situation at their February meeting scheduled appropriately at the new Detroit Strohs Brewhouse. Watch the newswires!

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by Steve Jelf » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:39 am

a well written and researched article
the reputation damaging fake news article

So which is it? I thought Henry Ford's attitude on the subject was pretty widely known.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring


DHort
Posts: 2461
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:30 pm
First Name: Dave
Last Name: Hjortnaes
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 24 Speedster, 20 touring
Location: Men Falls, WI
MTFCA Number: 28762
MTFCI Number: 22402

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by DHort » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:49 am

Has anyone ever researched this to determine if Henry was truly anti semitic or was he just against the Jewish bankers? I do not believe he cared for JP Morgan either. I know the paper was anti-jewish, but are there any writings attributing this feeling that come directly from Henry himself?

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by Steve Jelf » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:12 am

Google henry ford anti-semitism and you'll find a lot of history on the subject. The evidence points strongly at a guilty verdict.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring

User avatar

Charlie B in N.J.
Posts: 638
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:40 am
First Name: CHARLIE
Last Name: BRANCA
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: "27 Tudor / "23 Touring
Location: Brick N.J.
MTFCA Number: 28967
Board Member Since: 2010

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by Charlie B in N.J. » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:32 am

Oh he did it alright. No two ways about it and the article doesn't lie at all. In all the reading I've done on HF the authors only mention the company backers if at all as a reason. It doesn't hold water because he dealt with all types of people apparently whenever it did him good. You'll get hit with that old excuse "a man of his times". No excuse. HF was a stubborn, opinionated, slightly educated person who basically reached a point where he could do whatever the h*ll he wanted and he did. It's just not today's attitude to leave the bad things about the good old days behind & go forward. Still I feel the mayor was wrong and the editor that got fired should get a good lawyer.
Forget everything you thought you knew.

User avatar

Bob Solak
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:48 pm
First Name: Bob
Last Name: Solak
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: None
Location: Chicago Area
Board Member Since: 2019

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by Bob Solak » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:40 am

Those interested can read the article on line here
http://www.deadlinedetroit.com/articles ... henry_ford

Like most here, I've heard about Ford's anti-semitism and it isn't really disputed. But I cannot say I am sufficiently knowledgeable to comment on the historicity of the article nor if the writer got every detail correct.

Regardless, however, I don't think that Chapters should take votes to weigh in on this issue as it is outside the mission statements of either the MTFCA or MTFCI. Remember that we are here because of the Model T. While Henry was, of course, the man behind the machine, we are not required to deify the man or seek to censor information about him.

The MTFCA, per it's website
was organized in late 1965 for the purpose of bringing together people who are interested in the Model T Ford, its history, its evolution, and its place in the American scene.
The MTFCI by-laws state
The purpose of the corporation as stated in its Certificate of Incorporation is to promote the interest of the public in the preservation and restoration of antique automobiles, particularly the Model T Ford, its accessories, lore and literature.
Note that both clubs are centered around the car - not the man. (If they were, I would expect many of us would need to re-evaluate our membership). If the chapter that took the vote was a chapter of the Henry Ford Fan Club, I would have no problem with it (well, I would, but you know what I mean). But they're presumably a Chapter of the MTFCA, and their vote is an attempt to provide MTFCA weight to their individual feelings. The problem is that it drags the rest of us, by association, into a fight that we've got no business being involved in as an organization. The 27 of you can sign a letter or press release with your own names. But I urge you not to include the Chapter or the MTFCA in any way.

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by Steve Jelf » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:48 am

It often happens that attempts to suppress a story have the opposite effect. The mayor is a great publicist for the article.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring

User avatar

DLodge
Posts: 594
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:14 pm
First Name: Dick
Last Name: Lodge
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Touring
Location: St. Louis MO
MTFCA Number: 19659
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by DLodge » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:57 am

“I don't care what the newspapers say about me as long as they spell my name right.”

― P. T. Barnum


George Andreasen
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:21 pm
First Name: George
Last Name: Andreasen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 0...building from parts
Location: Alturas, California

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by George Andreasen » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:58 am

I've known about Henry's anti Semitic views for some time, but your post piqued my interest so I went looking. I found that all four volumes of "The International Jew" are available in reprint form and unabridged. I think I'll order a set....just to put them on the shelf next to my T books, if nothing else.

Why? Because Ford was a brilliant individual, who believed in hard work, enterprise and the American way. So how could a man that intelligent develop such views? I've read modern reviews of the Dearborn Independent articles and they all say that Henry's arguments were based on pseudo science, half truths and outright lies. Remember, Ford himself didn't write most of those articles.....he had a "ghost writer".......but he DID give his final approval before publishing.

It's the one dark stain in an otherwise distinguished career.

He also financed the Peace Fleet (I think that was the term) of ships headed for Europe to hold talks and hopefully avoid war. The idea was naive really, and I'm surprised no one talked him out of it!


Scott_Conger
Posts: 6430
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
Location: Clark, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by Scott_Conger » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:26 pm

Bob Solak

I am so glad you posted that. It saved me from doing the same. I can state unequivocally that my support for either or both T organizations will diminish in direct proportion to any efforts to support or pressure any elected official in their official duties. Particularly when a club feels the need to apologise to it's membership for inviting Indiana's ex-Governor Pence to a dinner, which it did several years ago, then it certainly is the height of hypocracy and poor choice to weigh in with direct opinion, support, or admonition of ANY elected official. I hope that the Directors of our organization have a long and serious talk with the local's elected officers. I am in the hobby and frequent the board as a source of enjoyment and relaxation. I do not want to see politics or "controversy" as any part of it.
Scott Conger

Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny

NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured


Hal
Posts: 200
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:08 pm
First Name: Hal
Last Name: Davis
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '22 TT Stake Bed, '18 Touring (Hers)
Location: SE Georgia
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by Hal » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:38 pm

One wouldn't have to watch the news too often to determine that antisemitism is becoming accepted. It's OK for legislators to do it, so it must be OK for anyone.


John kuehn
Posts: 3907
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: John
Last Name: Kuehn
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 19 Roadster, 21 Touring, 24 Coupe
Location: Texas
MTFCA Number: 28924

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by John kuehn » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:21 pm

This is only a so called controversy if certain people want it to be. This is old news thats been around for years. Nothing new here.
Every innovator has a dark side no matter who they are or where they came from. Sounds to me that certain folks are wanting to cause a controversy to happen. This ought to go away in my opinion and not be propagated by people that have bad intentions. Make no mistake there are folks that are doing it. History is history and that’s just the way it is.


jiminbartow
Posts: 2202
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:55 pm
First Name: James
Last Name: Patrick
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Coupe
Location: Bartow, FL
MTFCA Number: 50126
Board Member Since: 2001

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by jiminbartow » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:58 pm

For a long time, it has been a known fact that Henry Ford hated Jews. This has been documented and proven by his own quotes and writings so much so, that it would be folly to try and change the history on this. It has also been documented that, because of his strong views on this subject, Henry Ford and Adolph Hitler mutually admired eachother. Hitler quoted Mr. Ford in his own writings and in 1938 presented Ford with the German Cross of Supreme Cross of the German Eagle on his 75th birthday. An award created by Hitler in 1937. Ford was the first recipient of this award which was the highest honor Nazi Germany could bestow on any foreigner and is thought to be representative of the admiration Hitler had for Ford and their similar views. This was incredibly harmful to the Jews due to the fact that Mr. Ford made anti-semitism more acceptable due to his world fame and status as the founder and head of the Ford Motor Company.

I know we have a lot of Jewish members. I am curious as to how they feel about the inventor of the car they love being an avowed anti-Semite. Jim Patrick

User avatar

Bob Solak
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:48 pm
First Name: Bob
Last Name: Solak
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: None
Location: Chicago Area
Board Member Since: 2019

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by Bob Solak » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:51 pm

I was poking a bit more around the internet and, while I can find mentions of the "Detroit Model T Club" here and there, they aren't listed as a Chapter of either the MTFCA or MTFCI on those organizations' websites. But I know that sometimes those things don't get updated. Does anyone know if they are indeed affiliated with MTFCA or MTFCI?

User avatar

DanTreace
Posts: 3299
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Treace
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
Location: North Central FL
MTFCA Number: 4838
MTFCI Number: 115
Board Member Since: 2000
Contact:

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by DanTreace » Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:03 pm

Interesting that Henry's long time relationship with Albert Kahn isn't disclosed in that emotive article by the Dearborn Historical Museum.

Kahn, was the famous Jewish architect of Ford 's Highland Park plant, Kahn later designed, in 1917, the massive half-mile-long Ford River Rouge Complex in Dearborn. Kahn also designed the Edsel and Eleanor Ford House, and The Dearborn Inn, the world's first airport hotel.
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford

User avatar

FreighTer Jim
Posts: 1724
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:50 am
First Name: James
Last Name: Jarzabek
Location: Dayton, OH
MTFCA Number: 29562
MTFCI Number: 24398
Board Member Since: 2008
Contact:

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by FreighTer Jim » Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:12 pm

Life challenges us all to Live Up to our own expectations of who we are.

The only opinion that really counts about each of us and the Life we Live
is our own.

FJ
Google “ Model T Transport “
MTFCA - MTFCI - MAFCA Member


Scott_Conger
Posts: 6430
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
Location: Clark, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by Scott_Conger » Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:36 pm

Bob Solak

You made more headway on club info than I did. I did however find the Detroit Historical Society doesn't have a clue as to how a Model T top is configured: https://detroithistorical.pastperfecton ... 7028210411
Scott Conger

Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny

NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by Steve Jelf » Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:52 pm

Who is Mark?
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring

User avatar

Mark Gregush
Posts: 4956
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:57 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Gregush
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 cutdown PU, 1920 Dodge touring, 1948 F2 Ford flat head 6 pickup 3 speed
Location: Portland Or
MTFCA Number: 52564
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by Mark Gregush » Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:36 pm

RE; Does anyone know if they are indeed affiliated with MTFCA or MTFCI?
Really would not matter unless they use or try to use the national clubs to stand behind.
I read the whole story and didn't see anything that I have not read before.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup

User avatar

ewdysar
Posts: 223
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:48 pm
First Name: Eric
Last Name: Dysart
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1916 Touring, 1927 Runabout
Location: PNW

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by ewdysar » Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:57 pm

c'mon guys. The "report" at the bottom of the original post about the "T" club's position including the vote tally describes a meeting that is scheduled for tomorrow, February 6. There was no meeting (yet) and there was no vote, the referenced club may not even exist. I believe the original post was done "tongue in cheek", hence the reference to fake news, etc.

Keep crankin'
Eric


Mike Thomas
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:50 am
First Name: Mike
Last Name: Thomas
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 Coupe
Location: Centerville, Iowa

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by Mike Thomas » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:22 pm

I call these things "The Michael Jackson Syndrome". Someone gets so rich or so famous, and surrounds themselves with people that would never tell them "no" about anything. If no one is telling you "no", you can get pretty weird. That is what happens to a lot of people, they begin to think they can do anything and get away with it.


Jerry VanOoteghem
Posts: 2952
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:06 pm
First Name: Jerry
Last Name: Van
Location: S.E. Michigan
MTFCA Number: 24868

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:34 pm

Eric,

The Model T Ford Club of Detroit really does exist. Don't recall for how many years, but it's a really old T club. It used to be a chapter of MTFCI many many years ago, but they broke away. (Something about beer I think) Anyway, to my knowledge they have no affiliation with any national organizations.

Perhaps Jon can fill in the blanks here, or correct any errors on my part. I kinda think as well, that at least some of Jon's posting is intended to be "tongue-in-cheek", or maybe not...


Topic author
CraneJon
Posts: 92
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:55 am
First Name: jon
Last Name: crane
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 T pickup, 1928 A, 1931 A
Location: rochester mich

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by CraneJon » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:32 pm

Thank you Jerry.

My post was intended to acquaint the Forum with the unique controversy involving a 100 year old issue involving Henry Ford. Nothing more and nothing less.

I encourage each forum member to read the well written article and form their own opinions. While there is nothing humorous about anti Semitism, the way this matter is being exploited is typical of the information age. Good or bad. I thought it would be good to poke a little fun into the mix. Did Steve Jeff notice the reference to the Dearborn Hysterical Society?

As for the Detroit Model T Club, we are and independent 45 member social club. We meet monthly in the Detroit area and have seen and visited a great many old car sites, shops, museums, and ford related sites. We even met at a funeral parlor once! Lots of fun so if anyone is interested send me a pm. Meet first Wednesday of the month, and yes this month's meeting is at the newly opened and restored Strohs Brewhouse. The brewmaster has promised a lecture on the fine point of making Strohs beer! Wednesday evening 7pm 2/6 at the Michigan Avenue location. Call me if you need directions or a ride.


Last, club lore is that we were once a chapter of mtfci, but were dismissed after a beer drinking incident at Hershey. That was well before my time with the club which has only been the last 22 years. It is all about FUN.


Topic author
CraneJon
Posts: 92
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:55 am
First Name: jon
Last Name: crane
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 T pickup, 1928 A, 1931 A
Location: rochester mich

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by CraneJon » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:42 pm

One more thing.... Detroit Model T Club visited the Rivera Murals at the Detroit Institute of Art. Talk about controversy...Now that is one heck of a story and if anyone ever comes to Detroit, be sure to stop at the DIA on your way to the Piquette. Plant


Topic author
CraneJon
Posts: 92
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:55 am
First Name: jon
Last Name: crane
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 T pickup, 1928 A, 1931 A
Location: rochester mich

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by CraneJon » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:51 pm

Who is Mark you ask?
Mark is my good friend and T Club member, Mark Finley. I was going to put his name and phone number on the press release and see how many newspapers called him for statement... then I though the better of it. Mark is the organizer of this month's meeting at the Strohs Brewhouse. Stop in and meet him.


Tmodelt
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:48 pm
First Name: Kim
Last Name: Wynn
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 Roadster & 1927 Speedster
Location: Morris, IL

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by Tmodelt » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:40 am

None of us can change history, whether 100 years ago or even yesterday. We can work to correct injustices or inaccuracies. I was not around 100 years ago so I have no first-hand knowledge and only have printed text to base any opinions that I have established.

My 80 year old father told me many years ago to believe nothing that I have been told and only half of what I have seen. That advice has seen me through 60 years of trials and tribulations.

The media is known for sensationalism of stories to keep them in the headlines. Just my $.02 worth.


jethro
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:10 am
First Name: Jonathan
Last Name: Bodine
Location: Tropical, Montana
MTFCA Number: 4006

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by jethro » Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:35 pm

Well said, Tmodelt.


Marty Bufalini
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:17 pm
First Name: Marty
Last Name: Bufalini
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring
Location: Michigan

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by Marty Bufalini » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:49 pm

To deny or get upset at historical fact that Henry Ford was an anti-Semite is to deny the Holocoast, other Nazi attrocities and, Hitler. We cannot deny or dismiss history, even the horrible. It is, indeed, unfortunate that a man as great as Henry Ford -- a man who literally changed this planet -- was an anti-Semite.

We must never forget. We need to continually learn.

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by Steve Jelf » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:25 pm

Great people are human too. They often have flaws and failings along with their greatness. Some people so prefer their heroes to be pure that they seek to deny or suppress history. Jefferson was the great champion of freedom, but owned slaves and was the father of Sally Hemmings's kids. FDR got us through the Great Depression but cheated on his wife. Henry Ford put the country on wheels but subscribed to loony antisemitic nonsense. It's quite possible to appreciate their accomplishments with full knowledge of their flaws.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring


Rich Bingham
Posts: 1922
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:23 am
First Name: Rich
Last Name: Bingham
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1913 runabout
Location: Blackfoot, Idaho

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by Rich Bingham » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:12 am

It's been the norm for over a generation for "revisionist" histories to tear down past idols by pointing to their feet of clay. It remains true, however, that "argumentum ad hominem" is still a logical fallacy. What Steve said !
"Get a horse !"


John Codman
Posts: 1182
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:27 am
First Name: John
Last Name: Codman
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Youring
Location: Naples, FL 34120

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by John Codman » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:17 am

If you doubt that Henry Ford had an anti-semetic streak, might I suggest that you read THE PEOPLE'S TYCOON by Steven Watts. Ford was an automotive genius, warts and all. I will never support any attempt to suppress free speech. If the mayor of Dearborn actually did "forbid" the publication of a letter containing facts - whether we like those facts or not, he should be removed from office.


Rich Bingham
Posts: 1922
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:23 am
First Name: Rich
Last Name: Bingham
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1913 runabout
Location: Blackfoot, Idaho

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by Rich Bingham » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:29 am

John, I guess that read as if I doubt ol' Hank's dark side. I don't. And I agree with you about an official supposing to restrict free speech.
"Get a horse !"


John kuehn
Posts: 3907
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: John
Last Name: Kuehn
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 19 Roadster, 21 Touring, 24 Coupe
Location: Texas
MTFCA Number: 28924

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by John kuehn » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:40 am

Since Henry Ford is having a so called background check to see if he fits in to today’s highly charged political narrative it wouldn’t surprise many people to see the same thing happen to the personal lives and ambitions of of the so called fact checkers.


Raoul von S.
Posts: 178
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:12 am
First Name: Raoul
Last Name: Vaughn
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 truck
Location: Egypt, Wa.

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by Raoul von S. » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:06 am

The subject of modern (post-dark ages) anti-semitism in western culture is massively
multi-layered and complicated. Since this subject always seems to center on the
American narrative of WW2 and the Holocaust, few Americans have the foggiest notion
of European history, particularly as it involves the Jewish population. History is history,
warts and all. Making judgements about the past when we know little or nothing about
the background and REAL historical narrative, so it fits our modern "everyone needs to
feel good about everything" narrative is ..... well, I'll just say most people talking about
this subject need to invest years of study before they can really understand.

Start with War Against the Weak, by Edwin Black. A good, college-level text on one
aspect of Henry's times and "dark side".
"Working today, for a seamless tomorrow"

User avatar

Ruxstel24
Posts: 2345
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:25 am
First Name: Dave
Last Name: Hanlon
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 24 Touring car
Location: NE Ohio
MTFCA Number: 50191
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: Anti Semitic History Controversy

Post by Ruxstel24 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:15 am

Bottom line for me is, for 100 years ago, Henry made a fine automobile and the legacy of the car lives on. His personal opinion, fondness of Hitler, anti Semitic views...it was 100 years ago !!
There's probably as big a following of VWs, but I don't think many focus on the Nazi aspect of the design.
I was a little more miffed of Ford's dealings with striking workers !! Ouch :shock:

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic