First timer main caps

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JacolbEdwards
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First timer main caps

Post by JacolbEdwards » Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:08 am

So I know this ain’t nothing to write home about but I was able to tin my first set of caps and pour the center main using the knowledge I obtained from Mike Bender, I tinned the caps with superior flux no27 and a piece of Babbitt, the tin job came out very well in my opinion with good coverage and no bare spots, the center main was then poured and it came out ok, there is a flaw at the top of the cap where the oil relief is cut, so no harm no foul I guess and most of it may cut out when line bored, but still would like to know where I went wrong, I’m under the impression that maybe I could of leveled up the cap better, and maybe pour a little faster I don’t know, and I know time is no big deal with caps but the sprue (or pour spot on mold ) did take quite awhile to knock down and I don’t have that kinda time when pouring the block What do y’all do to cut it out of the way, and maybe next weekend I can get the first and third main poured I’ll keep y’all posted on my rookie goat roping deal I got going on here haha, any advice would be appreciated
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Kaiser
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Re: First timer main caps

Post by Kaiser » Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:44 am

Hello Jacolb, great try !
I gather from the pictures that you are doing the pouring outside, which is probably healthier, but that could well mean that the moulds and caps are cooling too quick or are too cold from the outset, causing the babbit to sollidify too fast and not filling the mold completely and/or causing crystalisation.
Some engine rebuilders like to get the parts to be poured real hot, others go by the Ford bible and pour 'cold' and both get good results, but 'cold' in this case is not icecold but rather not close to the melting point of the babbit.
You can allways heat the caps and pour out the babbit in your melting pot and have another go at it ;)
When in trouble, do not fear, blame the second engineer ! 8-)
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Re: First timer main caps

Post by Gene_French » Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:16 am

Jacolb:
you will cut a "well" at the edge of the cap that will eliminate the void seen in your photo … I mill a 45 deg. angle "well" into both the block and cap … stopping about 3.8" from the ends of the bearing …
regarding the spru (gate) ...I use a wood chisel to make several cuts into the side of the projected spru very near to the base of the unfinished bearing bore … then tap with a small hammer to snap the spru off … will snap at the cut marks …
always an optimist
Gene French


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Re: First timer main caps

Post by JacolbEdwards » Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:46 am

Kaiser it very well could be to cold i’m in Texas where we drink water from a Hoof print and are happy to get it it is about 65 degree is that too cold haha I’m still learning and just kinda farting around thank you for the advice my next pour I’ll try inside the soldering salts just kinda of made me worry about ventilation with all the hazards on the container haha

Gene thank you for the advice as well, and got to say I very happy with your products the mold is perfect and am excited to get to mount and use your line bore lite

I just poured the third main wish me luck and will keep up progress and postings on the rookie goat ropin haha


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Re: First timer main caps

Post by JacolbEdwards » Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:05 am

Well guys the third main turned out to be a horrible fail... don’t know where I went wrong but the mold seemed level, anti heat damming the front plates but I couldn’t get the mold to fill I believe my tin job fell short and the upper edges and didn’t give the Babbit anything to bond to so it just poured out of the vent holes leaving the void you see I’ll melt the Babbit out and do it agin maybe tomorrow any advice would be appreciated


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Re: First timer main caps

Post by JacolbEdwards » Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:08 am

Pictures of how third main turned out better luck next time
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Re: First timer main caps

Post by Kaiser » Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:37 pm

Looks like trapped air to me :?: If this happens again you could consider putting some small scraps of very thin paper between cap surface and mold so as to give the air a way out, if babbit flows onto mating surface of the cap it is easily removed with a few carefull (sweet)file strokes.
Keep trying, don't give up !
Last edited by Kaiser on Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When in trouble, do not fear, blame the second engineer ! 8-)
Leo van Stirum, Netherlands
'23 Huckster, '66 CJ5 daily driver


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JacolbEdwards
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Re: First timer main caps

Post by JacolbEdwards » Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:42 pm

Kaiser what can I do to aid trapped air? I just tried to re pour the third we’ll see how it comes out still HOT

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Re: First timer main caps

Post by Kaiser » Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:44 pm

Edited my post, please reread, sorry
When in trouble, do not fear, blame the second engineer ! 8-)
Leo van Stirum, Netherlands
'23 Huckster, '66 CJ5 daily driver


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Re: First timer main caps

Post by JacolbEdwards » Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:45 pm

Thank you sir I won’t give up, could I pour with a shim stack

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Re: First timer main caps

Post by Kaiser » Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:09 pm

The idea is to give the air a way out, air is thin and needs just a small way out, so just putting small strips of for instance sigarette paper between cap and mold will probably be more than enough. a shim would close up the entire surface and give too much clearance.
Another more permanent fix would be to make some filemarks on the cap, not take material off, just some scratches to give the air a way out.
When in trouble, do not fear, blame the second engineer ! 8-)
Leo van Stirum, Netherlands
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Re: First timer main caps

Post by Kerry » Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:20 pm

Jacolb.
I've been pouring Babbitt for many years and learnt a long time ago that using a shim between the mold, cap, block and rods saves a lot of redo's for a perfect pour.

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Re: First timer main caps

Post by Kaiser » Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:53 pm

Kerry and Jacolb, i thought a shim in between would not solve the trapped air problem, but apparently it does according to Kerry, never too old to learn a new trick, thanks Kerry and good luck on your next try Jacolb
When in trouble, do not fear, blame the second engineer ! 8-)
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Re: First timer main caps

Post by Kerry » Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:19 pm

Leo,
I can't comment on other mold builds and designs but the likes of Gene Frence's are built with bleed holes for the air to escape when pouring.

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Re: First timer main caps

Post by Kaiser » Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:38 pm

Don't know Gene's molds personally but yeah there should allways be a way out for the air and overflow babbit, and a good mold should be designed that way.
Can't tell from the pictures what mold Jacolb is using, just from the way the poured babbit looks my hunch is trapped air because of the way the edges of the babbit stand up like they look when airbubbles get trapped or a tiny bit of moisture forms superheated steam pockets that keep the babbit from flowinginto every nook and cranny of the mold ?
This is by no means criticism on the maker of the mold, be it Gene or anybody else, just trying to help with finding the cause and a solution to Jacolbs problem.
Pouring babbit is almost a lost art and we can all learn and it may help others if we find a solution.
When in trouble, do not fear, blame the second engineer ! 8-)
Leo van Stirum, Netherlands
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Re: First timer main caps

Post by JacolbEdwards » Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:09 pm

The second pour of the third main was a success I poured before I saw kaisers suggestion on adding cigarette paper or Kerry’s suggestion on using a shim stack next time I’ll try that I am using gene french molds and it does have some venting and found that I heated to cap up quite a bit more and got a good result but when I melt the Babbitt back out of the cap it will tell me if I was hot enough on the tin job and pour thank you for all the advice everyone and I’ll keep posting with progress and results
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Re: First timer main caps

Post by Kaiser » Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:34 pm

Great, thanks for the update, looking good, you're on your way !
Last edited by Kaiser on Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When in trouble, do not fear, blame the second engineer ! 8-)
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Re: First timer main caps

Post by Gene_French » Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:45 am

Jacolb:
the endcaps are vented and with proper , even heating will produce a good pour … I see in your final picture that Babbitt spurted out of the vents at the top of the endcaps … this should happen each time you pour … this indicates a full pour and rapid rate of pour … good job … if you have these results each time you will get a good bearing …
always an optimist
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Re: First timer main caps

Post by jab35 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:10 am

Thanks for sharing, good information and photos. What is the recommended temperature of the cap/jig and of the Babbitt? thanks, jb


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Re: First timer main caps

Post by Joe Bell » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:24 am

When I first started pouring, I bought a set like that, waisted a lot of time trying to figure a good pour out, then made a mold that poured from bottom up and had good pours all the time and you did not have to mess with the sprue in the center, you just band saw it off the side of it and use your facing tool to cut both ends to length. Just my thoughts!

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Re: First timer main caps

Post by GugCoupe » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:32 am

Great thread, I am glad to have some time to dig in to the forum lately. Some of us young bucks are getting a chance at being retired!


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Re: First timer main caps

Post by JacolbEdwards » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:54 am

Jab I started using the temps mike bender gave me and got much better results 500+ degrees on cap and mold and 900 plus on Babbitt I found that when the dross on the top of your Babbitt starts turning the color of pencil lead your at 900 plus I tested this theory with a IR temp gun with a probe

Gene your mold is perfect it allows venting for a proper fill and and minimum clean up, my problem wasn’t air it was heat I would recommend your molds to anyone in the market for molds

Thanks to all, I will continue to post results I have first main cap left then on to the block, I purchased a line bore lite from gene french sometime back and will start a separate post on line boring my block


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Re: First timer main caps

Post by JacolbEdwards » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:01 am

Joe bell thank you for the advice but I have found that if you don’t cut sprue and clean mating surfaces of cap when hot it is hard as a rock and it for me has been easier to get the cap clean and sprue cut out of the way while it’s still hot. I’m still learning and will pour all three mains agin just to see if my tinning held up, a experiment if you will, thanks to all

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Re: First timer main caps

Post by Tim Rogers » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:43 am

GugCoupe wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:32 am
Great thread, I am glad to have some time to dig in to the forum lately. Some of us young bucks are getting a chance at being retired!
<o><o><o><o> Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks - Forum member since 2013 <o><o><o><o>

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Re: First timer main caps

Post by Mark Gregush » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:43 am

If you have not done so, watch Mike Bender's videos on You tube. Looks like he is using one of Gene's molds.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 1nA0Yctp6G
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: First timer main caps

Post by JacolbEdwards » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:57 am

mark, thank you I have seen his videos I watch them religiously he is amazing at what he does and the best in my opinion and have spoke to him several time and he is a wealth of knowledge And great guy.

Also had the the pleasure of speaking with bob Shirley, he is a gentleman and a wealth of knowledge and no stranger to a t model

I’d like to thank all y’all for the support and the forum is a amazing source of advice,knowledge, and great people. Thank you all


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Re: First timer main caps

Post by JacolbEdwards » Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:01 pm

Well guys I got a little carried away with the heat was a bit over 650 then poured and 900+ Babbitt end up with around 700 after pour we'll let her cool down and see what we got


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Re: First timer main caps

Post by JacolbEdwards » Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:15 pm

Well guys believe it was a touch too hot by the numbers ive been told but I believe it to be my best pour yet after dusting off the cap with my Babbitt knife the Babbitt was clean and with almost a chrome finish, it fell a tiny bit short the length of the cap near the matting surface but don’t know if i should count it as a blessing(less clean up) but either way will cut out when cutting in oil wells, I’ll keep posting next pours will be the block but won’t be till later this week thanks to all
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Re: First timer main caps

Post by Kaiser » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:49 am

Great results, glad Gene chimed in, even learned something myself. ;)
When in trouble, do not fear, blame the second engineer ! 8-)
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