Rebuilt starter really cranks!

[ivaldes1]

I received a new rebuilt starter from Ron Patterson and installed it. It really cranks! Much more powerful than the old one. I wonder why the new rebuilt one seems so much more powerful than the old one? Do these degrade with time?

[BobShirleyAtlantaTx]

I’m betting your improved performance is because every thing has been straightened, a lined, polished, with new proper fitting bearings/bushings. Insuring proper contact and free movement. You got more than paid for, better than it came the Ford factory.

[Ron Patterson]

Ignacio
Yes, they do degrade over time, but remember they are 100+ years old.
When I was a kid in the 50’s and 60’s my father was an automobile mechanic and when he sent me the auto parts store to get him a “rebuilt” starter or generator he knew he could expect a unit that had been completely disassembled and Every internal part returned to factory performance. All the countermen knew me and I received the 40% discount and paid no tax. Today the word “rebuilt” has taken a new meaning; taken apart, only minimal parts replaced, reassembled and not fully tested to factory specifications.
In realty my rebuilt starters are not better than new, they perform exactly to original the Ford FA Starting and Lighting System specifications I.E. They produce 12-foot pounds of torque during a stall torque test while drawing 500 Amps and draw 65-75 Amps free running at the correct RPM. That means all the electrical and electro-mechanical parts are working correctly as designed. With the 12 to 1 ratio of the Bendix drive gear to flywheel ring gear the starting motor is producing 144-foot pounds of torque at the flywheel.
Many Model T owners are unaware of how the starter is supposed to perform and think the slow URR-URR-URR you commonly hear when starting is a reasonable expectation.
Let me explain the issues that MUST be addressed when rebuilding starters. The starter terminal bolt may have failed causing the starter to turn very slowly or not at all. This is the most common total failure of a model T starter and you can find complete details on this simple repair at: https://modeltfordfix.com/repairing-a-c ... r-problem/ . The armature is commonly bent and MUST be straightened so all “three” of the bearings are properly aligned and the armature laminations are not dragging on the pole shoes. All three bearing must be checked and replaced getting rid of the Babbitt bushing and the original lubrication that has turned to a cement-like substance using a sealed pre lubed ball bearing and spacer. The brushplate MUST be removed from the brush cap and rebuilt because any of the failures occur on the unseen side of the brushplate. The brushplate MUST be reinstalled in the brushcap with copper rivets and a heavy-duty rivet gun to replicate the physical connection between the brush cap to brushplate electrical connection that conducts several hundred Amps under load. A new field winding MUST be installed to get rid of the 100-year-old oil-soaked field insulation. With the only exception of only very early Model T starters there was no armature shaft oil seal between the engine and the starter case so over time the worn mounting bracket bushing allowed oil to leak into the case. Ford’s solution was to drill a hole in the bottom of the starter case allowing the oil to drain out, but the oil certainly did not help with the internal electrical components. If you would like to see an example of this, simply take apart a long-used Model T starter and have a look, what a mess. No wonder they lasted as long as they did.
I’ve only had two rebuilt starters give trouble in service and it was for something I overlooked. They were quickly repaired and are still working
You can find details on each of these repairs in my Forum posts regarding the Model T Starter. Some of these repairs do required some special tools not commonly found in the average shop. If you do not do these repairs, get used to the slow URR-URR-URR you commonly hear when starting your Model T car. I can assure that is in no way normal for a Model T starter and if you think it is, your wrong!

[ivaldes1]

That is great to know. Mine has been URR, URR, URR since I've owned it until it did not URR at all. When I took it apart the terminal bolt insulator disintegrated, the terminal bolt was loose, and the inside was oily. Now I know to use a cone wrench on the bottom terminal bolt nut to hold it while attaching the positive cable. It is remarkable the difference it makes, the motor spins fast now! -- IV

[BobShirleyAtlantaTx]

The ball bearing on the brush end and the brass bushing replacing the Babbitt bushing that carries the starter drive, that you provide, have got to be marked improvements over factory production. Sir, I’ve seen your work, your too modest.

[Original Smith]

If you haven't seen Ron's rebuilt starter's and generators, you missed a treat. They are worth the money many times over. There is definitely no need for a 12 volt battery if you use one of Ron's units!

[Ron Patterson]

Bob
I view the addition of a high quality ½ ID 6201 ball bearing and armature shaft spacer to the starter as not an operational performance enhancement, rather it is a long-term reliability enhancement. Let me explain
The Babbitt bushing Ford used in the starter brushcap was a cheap easy solution, unfortunately they made no provision for long term lubrication. That bushing had a dollop of lubrication added upon original assembly that looks suspiciously like Lubriplate. No doubt Ford felt with the low duty cycle of the starter that would suffice for as long as necessary. Eighty years plus later this lubrication is dried and congealed into a solid mass with no real lubricating properties. Many used starters today are found with modifications made to the brushcap to allow the addition of lubrication for this bushing.
Worse yet, while providing support for radial loads, the original bushing was also subjected the axial thrust load of the armature being constantly yanked back and forth inside the case in such a way to allow the armature bearing area to wear the side of the bushing over the long term creating excessive armature end play. Pick up any used Model T starter today and pull the armature back and forth in the case and they usually have 3/16 end play. I have seen this so bad that the rotating commutator is touching the brush holders when operating. Close your eyes and electrically imagine that?
I looked at all solutions Model T parts suppliers sold to correct this problem and concluded that, with the exception of the ball bearing/spacer solution, none actually solved all the problem. The only downside problem for this solution is that you may have to adjust the thickness of the mounting bracket main bushing thrust surface to reset armature end-play. Better yet, the ball bearing was the cheapest and easiest of all these solutions to install, requiring no special tools.