1912 -1913 engine

[Gaslamp]

[image][image][/image][/image]Hello, I'm new here, I am in New Zealand.
I have an engine casting which I would be interested in learning more about if possible, and would like to hear any comments as to it's manufacture year etc , it has a 6 digit serial number above the water outlet, 194 xxx which would indicate early 1913. I can find no trace of any casting date which is disappointing. It lay outside since 1945, I have had it for 30 years, it has 'Made in USA ' which has not been ground off , would this indicate pre-Canadian export?
It has no oil drain holes in the valve chests.
I have added some photos.
Any help appreciated.
Dean.

[SurfCityGene]

I'd be very certain that's it's a 1912 because of having only One Vertical gusset going up inside above the rear main bearing. I don't know when they started using 2 but most of the 13's and all later I have seen have two. Looks like a very salvageable block without any noticeable freeze cracks!

[Joe Bell]

I would say 12 also from the high hump where the fan bolts on and the serial number is above the water neck instead of side of block.

[Joe Bell]

One thing I do not see that all the early blocks have is the round casting sprues on the side of the water jacket where the water neck is? they are about 5/8 in diameter?

[SurfCityGene]

Ya but Joe, My '12 #12699X block has the numbers located lower right behind and about even with the inlet bolt hole.. I have another later block #156xxx with the numbers above the inlet?

[Joe Bell]

That is what is neat about these threads, we can all learn something!

[Wayne Sheldon]

I think 1912 (including early '13s) had more significant (?) detail changes in the engine blocks than in any other year. The serial number was in at least four different locations. Low on right side, behind water inlet, high above water inlet without embossment, and on the embossment added above the water inlet. Casting dates were in different locations, or not at all. Some had the oil deflector bump over the timing gear, some did not. Several early block details were gone (including the coin sized circles on the left side water jacket which I "think" disappeared before 1912?)). While such minor details changed throughout the fifteen year run of model Ts, and much more significant changes had been made in the earlier years as well as later. Even with Ford's usual crossover time where earlier and later variations would be used, some of the specific combinations of changes in 1912 and '13 probably were used for about a couple months at most. If one had access to the "dates of changes" for all these details? (I doubt if most those dates are actually known.) It would make an interesting chart!

And of course, those minor detail changes continued throughout the run of the model T. Addition of generator mounting place, dual to single valve chamber, and hogshead bolting embossment, were major changes. However the size and shape of the serial number embossment changed several times in the years that followed, changes to and elimination of casting dates, and the "Ford" script on the side of the block among many others were all significant detail changes in later years.

Regardless, that is a nice looking (from what I can see in the pictures?) fairly early engine block!

[Allan]

That block is way better than the B series block I started with for my van. Is there any indication of a casting date between the top of the engine number boss and the deck of the block? Mine has it there, small and totally unreadable, until a coolant leak took off all the paint and accumulated rust/debris. Then I could make out a couple of figures, but still no whole date.

Allan from down under.

[Gaslamp]

Hello Allan, thanks for the tip, I went out to the workshop and cleaned the area above the serial number raised area, in the hope there may have been any sign, but no luck.

Any ideas as to how I can get the badly rusted- in valve stems out without damaging the surrounding cast iron? They have been soaked in oil for 20 years or more .

[Joe Bell]

I press them out from the bottom, cut the valve off flush with the guide and press them out with a long hardened flat drift punch.

[Allan]

I had to remove everthing from my block casting using an angle grinder, cut off wheel drifts and a big hammer. The valve guides are not really a problem. I one does break off, they are easily replaced with modern parts, from memory, 350 Chev items. This is an easy fix for a good machine shop. there is a product called K liners which will clean out the rusty guides and give a clean accurate guide for the valves. I use Holden V8 exhaust valves, caps and retainers for all valves, and the K liners are standard for that fitment.

Hope this helps,
Allan from down under.