Gentlemen,
Recent events created a lot of extra time at home and served as an impetus to finally get the 13T assembled and running. A lot of progress has been made finding parts in boxes and, piece by piece, getting the 13T together. Shame it has taken so long but it is getting close to the finish line.
I’ve begun reviewing old forum threads to create checklists of things I need to accomplish transitioning a T which hasn’t started in a decade to where the first attempt can be made. Also, reviewing what I’ve assembled to see what I’ve done correctly and what I have not. I’m hoping to attempt to crank it in a week or two.
I’ve attached some photos of the engine compartment today. If you guys see any red flags of something wrong... please let me know. I’m researching everything bit by bit but the wisdom on this forum is worth numerous books.
Couple quick notes:
Carb is off as I’m cleaning it right now
Battery isn’t in yet so I don’t have it wired to the coil box
Don’t have cotter pins in the commutator pull rod as I put it place right before I took the pic
My horn cover is still buried in a box, haven’t found it yet
Thank you for your time,
Darin
13T - Almost There
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Darin Hull
Topic author - Posts: 241
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13T - Almost There
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TWrenn
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Re: 13T - Almost There
Well one thing that jumps out, and it's really not all that bad, as they are stronger, is that the pan looks to be the later wide-nose pan. Like I said, not the end of the world. Interesting that the horn is under the hood, I guess some were, maybe depending on the model year. That said, even if it is under the hood, I wonder if it still should be black and brass, as the horns on the outside were. Of course the generator is really a "stand out", as being a "crank start" car, they never came with them. So now this must be a later engine, which would explain more about the pan. Took me a couple of extra looks to see that!! Hey, a genny on even an earlier car aint all bad! Never have to worry about your battery dying I suspect. Whats the engine number on the block? Both the assembly number as well as the casting date? Just curious.
Also, another often overlooked item, and usually hard to correct, if not even notice, is the front fender irons. Seems the majority over the years have been replaced with the later style, that started in '14. Detectable by carefully looking at the underside by the bolt holes, if it has a "V" shape to it, it's the '14+ year. The '13s were rounded.
Post pics of the rest of the car when you can!
Also, another often overlooked item, and usually hard to correct, if not even notice, is the front fender irons. Seems the majority over the years have been replaced with the later style, that started in '14. Detectable by carefully looking at the underside by the bolt holes, if it has a "V" shape to it, it's the '14+ year. The '13s were rounded.
Post pics of the rest of the car when you can!
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TWrenn
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Re: 13T - Almost There
Okay, boy I must be blind!! 
.... I see the horn IS on the outside!! Don't know why it looked like under the hood on the one pic, never looked closely at the others. So, that said, technically it should be mostly black, with just the front screen/cover being brass. At least that's what the Judging Guide says. My '13 was all brass also, it broke my heart to have to paint that beauty prior to having it judged, but JTS, it paid off!! Sorry for my lack of detective looks!!
.... I see the horn IS on the outside!! Don't know why it looked like under the hood on the one pic, never looked closely at the others. So, that said, technically it should be mostly black, with just the front screen/cover being brass. At least that's what the Judging Guide says. My '13 was all brass also, it broke my heart to have to paint that beauty prior to having it judged, but JTS, it paid off!! Sorry for my lack of detective looks!!-
TWrenn
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Re: 13T - Almost There
Last one, I promise!! If I'm not mistaken, the wood hood shelves should be black, as also should the hood former be. Again, it's in the Judging Guide. Also, the repro firewall should've had the "slot" cut in it where the steering column opening is.
Good night!!
If I'm not mistaken, the wood hood shelves should be black, as also should the hood former be. Again, it's in the Judging Guide. Also, the repro firewall should've had the "slot" cut in it where the steering column opening is. Good night!!
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Darin Hull
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Re: 13T - Almost There
Original engine is sitting in the garage, a 251,xxx (if I remember correctly), to be rebuilt eventually. Engine currently in it is a 11,013,xxx.
Horn is outside the engine compartment area but isn’t black/brass, yet. Currently all bare brass.
Darin
Horn is outside the engine compartment area but isn’t black/brass, yet. Currently all bare brass.
Darin
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Darin Hull
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DanTreace
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Re: 13T - Almost There
Darin
Looks like you are having fun, T good looking in red too!
Your 4 wire wiring loom to the timer normally goes down the passenger side, but wrapped around the block is probably ok.
Don't see a wire from generator cutout yet back to the battery, so guess you are going to special wire that up.
As for the timer, your front plate bolt on the right side must be hex head on top, that castle nut up can impinge on a timer terminal and short out one spark plug, will cause a miss.
Here is how that bolt should look:
Lastly, see your late fan '24-'27 is cut off blades and seem to be bent forward a bunch, I guess to run with a small brass radiator, but seems to me would be off balance and could wear out the fan shaft bushing.
And the radiator pad for a brass radiator is correct, however the later long steel nut that goes under the frame rail is mounted up top, that would compromise the radiator mounting and hood fit.
Looks like you are having fun, T good looking in red too!
Your 4 wire wiring loom to the timer normally goes down the passenger side, but wrapped around the block is probably ok.
Don't see a wire from generator cutout yet back to the battery, so guess you are going to special wire that up.
As for the timer, your front plate bolt on the right side must be hex head on top, that castle nut up can impinge on a timer terminal and short out one spark plug, will cause a miss.
Here is how that bolt should look:
- IMG_2361 (630x473) (590x443) (580x435).jpg (141.36 KiB) Viewed 4498 times
Lastly, see your late fan '24-'27 is cut off blades and seem to be bent forward a bunch, I guess to run with a small brass radiator, but seems to me would be off balance and could wear out the fan shaft bushing.
And the radiator pad for a brass radiator is correct, however the later long steel nut that goes under the frame rail is mounted up top, that would compromise the radiator mounting and hood fit.
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
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Jerry VanOoteghem
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Re: 13T - Almost There
I still have very fond memories of your grandfather, Roger, driving this car. He was such a nice guy, with a smile permanently on his face. I sure do miss folks like him. I'm really happy to see you reviving his T however. He would love that, I'm sure.
Maybe you've done it already, but don't forget the cotter pin in your commutator control rod. Also, I would REALLY recommend replacing that fan blade. It's hard to believe it's balanced in any way, and harder still to believe that it's not cracked, which would be very dangerous.
Maybe you've done it already, but don't forget the cotter pin in your commutator control rod. Also, I would REALLY recommend replacing that fan blade. It's hard to believe it's balanced in any way, and harder still to believe that it's not cracked, which would be very dangerous.
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Original Smith
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Re: 13T - Almost There
You asked for it! You have the wrong fan and bracket, a 1914 steering column, and many other items to long to list!
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Darin Hull
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Re: 13T - Almost There
Embarrassing to see some things which are so obvious, like the radiator mount setup incorrectly, but that’s exactly the input I’m looking for. I’m reading several books now like the Model T Ford Service manual, the Ford Owners Handbook of Repair & Maintenance, and the Model T Ford Service Bulletin Essentials; however, I knew I could get some quick feedback from this forum.
I’ll humbly take every bit of it and work through them. Thank you.
Darin
I’ll humbly take every bit of it and work through them. Thank you.
Darin
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Darin Hull
Topic author - Posts: 241
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Re: 13T - Almost There
Jerry or Smith,
Would a 1920-1927 fan have too large a diameter sitting behind a brass radiator? I wonder if my grandpa modified the fan, when he put in the 1925 year engine, because of clearance issues. Easy fix to buy a new fan from Lang’s and swap the old one out if clearance isn’t an issue.
Long term, my plan is to put the correct engine back in. I have it, it has a broken crankshaft. But addressing the fan is something I have to do now.
Darin
Would a 1920-1927 fan have too large a diameter sitting behind a brass radiator? I wonder if my grandpa modified the fan, when he put in the 1925 year engine, because of clearance issues. Easy fix to buy a new fan from Lang’s and swap the old one out if clearance isn’t an issue.
Long term, my plan is to put the correct engine back in. I have it, it has a broken crankshaft. But addressing the fan is something I have to do now.
Darin
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RajoRacer
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Re: 13T - Almost There
Neither Jerry or Smith but I see a straight fan arm mount so you might need the correct curved one for the brass radiator.
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DanTreace
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Re: 13T - Almost There
Darin
The correct fitting fan would be the small riveted fan with brass pulley, made new about $200.
The later '24-'27 fan blade (or the rounded end style '17-'23) won't fit, both are too large in diameter.
This is why that old fan was clipped off on the blades.
IMO, if you bought a new '24-'27 blade only, $13, then it would mount fine to the later alum. pulley you have now. But that fan blade will be too big in diameter. SO....do that trim job neatly to that new blade, the new blade won't have old worn bends or cracks or old metal.
That will get you by, use the old one to mark the diameter of the trimming needed, IMO, a nice radius trim to the blade ends is better than clipped off ragged sections. A shop with a good metal cutting band or jig saw would do a nicer trim.
The correct fitting fan would be the small riveted fan with brass pulley, made new about $200.
The later '24-'27 fan blade (or the rounded end style '17-'23) won't fit, both are too large in diameter.
This is why that old fan was clipped off on the blades.
IMO, if you bought a new '24-'27 blade only, $13, then it would mount fine to the later alum. pulley you have now. But that fan blade will be too big in diameter. SO....do that trim job neatly to that new blade, the new blade won't have old worn bends or cracks or old metal.
That will get you by, use the old one to mark the diameter of the trimming needed, IMO, a nice radius trim to the blade ends is better than clipped off ragged sections. A shop with a good metal cutting band or jig saw would do a nicer trim.
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
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Scott_Conger
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Re: 13T - Almost There
Darin
welcome to the hobby. It's nice that you're putting your grandfather's car back on the road.
BTW, you don't have to ask for pointers on what is wrong. There are one or two folks here who will delight in pointing those areas out without your even having to ask. They are just that helpful and won't miss an opportunity to exercise their knowledge. My guess is that your grandfather put this car together back when you had to actually write letters to folks and correspond with them to find a part, and often times, knowledge among the two parties was somewhat limited. If you're driving this car, and not showing it, I'd be inclined to leave it as and enjoy it just as he enjoyed it.
Lots of good advice on the fan and it's attachment. One bit of warning: the correct repro fan for your car is beautiful, but the blades are at a shallower pitch than the originals, so will not cool as well at a stand-still as original. So if you parade this car, be sure hand have a new or rebuilt radiator to deal with the heat that the fan won't help with.
welcome to the hobby. It's nice that you're putting your grandfather's car back on the road.
BTW, you don't have to ask for pointers on what is wrong. There are one or two folks here who will delight in pointing those areas out without your even having to ask. They are just that helpful and won't miss an opportunity to exercise their knowledge. My guess is that your grandfather put this car together back when you had to actually write letters to folks and correspond with them to find a part, and often times, knowledge among the two parties was somewhat limited. If you're driving this car, and not showing it, I'd be inclined to leave it as and enjoy it just as he enjoyed it.
Lots of good advice on the fan and it's attachment. One bit of warning: the correct repro fan for your car is beautiful, but the blades are at a shallower pitch than the originals, so will not cool as well at a stand-still as original. So if you parade this car, be sure hand have a new or rebuilt radiator to deal with the heat that the fan won't help with.
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
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Scott Rosenthal
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Re: 13T - Almost There
Hello Darin:
Just to build on Scott's comment about poor repro fan performance. To evaluate this flow, simply open the palm of your hand facing the fan, next to the water inlet, while the engine is idling. If you do not feel an aggressive current, then increase air flow by bending the blades, maintaining equal and minimal distance from the radiator (the blades will be drawn toward the radiator as engine RPM's increase). This air flow increase will be immediate and substantial. I expect there are logical reasons why the repro blade pitch is not optimal...perhaps someone here more knowledgeable can speak to this?
Regards,
Scott
Just to build on Scott's comment about poor repro fan performance. To evaluate this flow, simply open the palm of your hand facing the fan, next to the water inlet, while the engine is idling. If you do not feel an aggressive current, then increase air flow by bending the blades, maintaining equal and minimal distance from the radiator (the blades will be drawn toward the radiator as engine RPM's increase). This air flow increase will be immediate and substantial. I expect there are logical reasons why the repro blade pitch is not optimal...perhaps someone here more knowledgeable can speak to this?
Regards,
Scott