White tires

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Michael Paul
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White tires

Post by Michael Paul » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:59 am

Good morning, I'm thinking of white tires for my early T. I recall some discussion about some brands that discolor. I'd like to hear feed back so I can make a good decision.
Any help appreciated.
Thanks Mike

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Steve Jelf
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Re: White tires

Post by Steve Jelf » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:43 pm

I didn't have the discoloring problem, but I can warn you to steer clear of the NOS New Zealand Firestones available recently. There's a reason they're priced low. They look great when you unwrap them, but they should be sold for display only because they wear out in no time if you drive on them.
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Michael Paul
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Re: White tires

Post by Michael Paul » Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:37 pm

Thank you, that's good to know. It's a big expense for a set of new tires. I definitely want something that will last.
Mike

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TWrenn
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Re: White tires

Post by TWrenn » Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:29 pm

Michael...quite a while back I started a thread on white tires. Even had some comparitive pics. What ensued was quite a debate over the cause(s), non of which I'm sure were definitive. However the most popular notion was that somehow certain TUBES caused it. And shortly after, at least one vendor mandated that when you buy white tires at least from them, you also needed to buy a certain tube from them also in order to maintain the warranty. I was warranted a full set of new whities and I also bought the "special tubes" and at least they seemed to hold up much better. I ran them almost 2 full seasons prior to selling the car. Actually it was my '12 comm. Roadster P/U, featured in 2 previous V.F. covers. Hope this helps.


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Michael Paul
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Re: White tires

Post by Michael Paul » Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:03 pm

Yes, thank you.... What brand did you buy? Were they smooth or tread style?
Thanks Mike


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Re: White tires

Post by Rich Bingham » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:10 pm

Michael, unless sources have changed recently, the current wisdom is that all clincher tires are currently made in Vietnam, presumably in the same place, and the "name brand" tires (e.g., Firestone) are no different from the reproduction Riversides or "T-Drivers" in construction or materials. They command higher price because of licensing fees paid to use registered trademarks.

Going back a couple of years it seems there was an "epidemic" of new white tires turning brown within a short time after being mounted. There was much ado about cause and cure, much evidence pointed toward certain lately made innertubes being the cause, which some disputed. At the time, Lang's stood by their guarantees, but required that new whites be mounted with new tubes they specified. Since then, we've heard little or nothing about white tires turning brown. Possibly the problems with browning tires have discouraged most sales since then, or maybe the problem has been solved ? I'd like to know (I always wanted white tires, too - maybe someday ?)
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Re: White tires

Post by TWrenn » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:20 pm

Michael Paul wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:03 pm
Yes, thank you.... What brand did you buy? Were they smooth or tread style?
Thanks Mike
They were Universal, standard tread type. They seemed to be wearing pretty good right up until I sold the car.


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Re: White tires

Post by Michael Paul » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:53 pm

Thanks for the great info. It's amazing that a set of tires cost more than the car did new. I wonder what Henry would think.

I wonder how much a new set of tires cost in 1909? If the value of a 09 / 10 car now is averaging around 30,000, and tires are around $1000. The cost should have been $28.33 per set. ( Update) I just looked at page 10 of Bruce McCalleys book and Ford paid $40 for tires in 1908 as part of the cost breakdown, I'm sure retail was much higher.
I guess tires are a bargain now compared to then!

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Re: White tires

Post by Steve Jelf » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:05 pm

The last time I bought any new clincher tires they still had the Vietnam label, but recently I read that the new source is Taiwan. If that's true, perhaps the change of sources solved the browning problem.

Does anybody know which tubes are the ones required for the white tire warranty? I know of two brands currently being sold: Custom Classic (India) and Hartford (China). I have spares of both brands in my shop, along with a 30 x 3 tube marked EEC but with no brand. I bought the Custom Classic and Hartford tubes within the last year, but I don't know how long I've had the EEC tube or whether it's still being sold.
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Re: White tires

Post by Walter Higgins » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:39 pm

I've been through this with ribbed white Universals. The tire people haven't quantified the problem, they have just tried throwing answers at it to see what will stick. Our observation was that they don't turn brown until they are inflated. Whether that is due to the tube or otherwise we do not know. We had six new tires, a couple were unwrapped when received, they were kept around for a good while before being mounted, but at the end of the day the only ones that discolored were the ones that were inflated and they did so quickly (within weeks). Light exposure had no effect on them. The ones that discolored did so badly, got hard spots in the sidewall, cracks, etc., and none of it consistently as though the rubber wasn't mixed well.

Universal finally came around to replacing them and would honor the warranty if you used the "approved" new tube. We did so and it has taken several months, but the replacement tires have also discolored some. Certainly not to the extent the first set did, but they are now more discolored than the 30+ year old set they replaced. Whether this is attributable to the tubes being used or otherwise is anybody's guess. Just as with the last set, two extras were kept back as spares, never inflated, and they are still snow white. The new tires are a different date code, so maybe the mix was better that day, who knows. Based on my discussions with them, the tire people don't seem to be interested in going to the source and actually working out what is causing these quality inconsistencies. What is known is that the white tires made decades ago didn't have these problems, so whatever is causing it is something they should be able to fix.

Here is a link to one of the old threads discussing this:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/70 ... 1492474452


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Re: White tires

Post by Dave_Baker » Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:03 pm

The EEC Tubes are a big part of the problem if you can find old USA made tubes that is a better choice. The brown tire problem has gotten better but still not 100% better. Coker has replaced a set of five Firestones the second set also turned brown. They are going to replace them for a third time. will give us new whites or new blacks my choice. This is for a 1912. It is no fun replacing them on restored Buffalo wheels.Its making me skeptical if I dare get another set of whites.Waiting for the shipping labels to return the brown tires.


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Re: White tires

Post by Rich Bingham » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:54 pm

So it would seem there hasn't been a definite cause - effect identified, and subsequent remedy applied then. Perhaps tires made by another source will be reliably better. I hope we'll learn more about developments with white tires, as time goes by.

FWIW, there have been gripes in some circles (not model T) about black tires looking "rusty" or brownish.
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Re: White tires

Post by Walter Higgins » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:57 pm

I've got black Model T tires turning brown. It's not as obnoxious as white and gray tires turning brown so the complaint isn't heard as much. As best I can tell the only clearly identifiable variable in the equation seems to be that when they starting making tires in a hooch on the other side of the world, the quality started to decline.


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Re: White tires

Post by Johnnybuick » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:58 am

Yes..i was one of the few experimenting this blooming syndrome re: white tires from wayback .. i still believe the problem is not with the inner tube but the formula used in the tire factory during making the rubber compounds..our forefathers got the formula right back in the day & somewhere along the modern age its now been mis-understood. But i do have a quick fix & its worked for me !
Give your bloomed tires a scuff with 100 grit sandpaper to the sidewalls & include first row of tread.. clean sanded area with a wax & grease remover solvent or methylated spirits..apply masking tape around the rim.. then ,,with your 3" or 4" paint roller ..paint your tire sidewalls with a satin white paint that can be used on vinyl, leather,rubber,canvas,dashboards,luggage etc etc. The paint ive used is waterbased and called
" taughtflex"..it says it wont stick to polyproplene acrylic or polyethlene.. when i applied 5 coats & let it cure for 5 days..i removed it to test its properties..and the paint came off in one piece in the actual shape of the tire.. yeah was like a magical wonderful circus trick. I found that it adhered and worked better with no more than 2 coats and do not coat the running area of the tire tread.
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Re: White tires

Post by TWrenn » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:05 am

Johnny: Interesting about your experiment of painting your yellowing tires. Cause attached I have a pic of my second set of white tires that were "warranty replacements" for the first set that went brown within a month. This tire posted here sure looks to me like just maybe the mfg. has tried the same thing? No one has been able to validate my idea here though. But look at the edge of the "white" and it even looks like "surface millage" to me. These tires kept their white for the most part, but in the second year started to show slight yellowing, but did clean up fairly well. I no longer have the car, so can't attest to how they are now. Tell me what you think!
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Re: White tires

Post by Gil Fitzhugh » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:37 am

Is that white paint dense enough to be used on BLACK tires? If it is, we could save a lot of money. Buy the cheaper black tires to begin with, get the long tread life of black tires, and get the period look of white tires that stay white.

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Re: White tires

Post by Steve Jelf » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:16 pm

Apparently there are two kinds of white tires currently available: 1 elderly NOS Firestones that won't last 1000 miles; 2 New tires that turn brown. After unhappy experience, Mister Thrifty is sticking with "incorrect" black.
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Re: White tires

Post by Corey Walker » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:37 pm

I don’t have, nor have I ever had, white tires but I saw this and took a screenshot. It was on a Facebook antique car site. I can’t remember the comments about it now but it was brought up in a discussion about white tires, not just whitewalls since most people are unaware that tires used to be white.
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Re: White tires

Post by Johnnybuick » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:58 pm

I noticed that pic of your white tire where the woven bead is discoloured from the rest of the outer smoother surface of your tire..i believe this is quite normal being that it is the tires woven inner base with its rough texture..& it looks like further applications of white rubber were laid over this base in the manufacturing..
I also like the theory regarding side whitewalls turn discolored ..that wax stuff might be allright if it rejuvinates & softens the tire to be subtle again..& the white tautflex paint i used is dense enough to paint a whitewall on black tires.. my white tires were not just turning brown but large patches of purple were showing and cracking..and this tautflex paint filled the cracks up..in areas where deep cracks were..i applied and scraped in that orange high temp silicone gasket goo before applying any white paint

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Re: White tires

Post by MikeSommers » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:07 pm

In the post (2 above) a member posted a screen shot of a product that whitens whitewalls (so of course it would whiten tires). The wording on the screen shot was somewhat vague, without the product, the company, the address, the price, or anything relevant being mentioned. I Googled the phone number and followed a series of circuitous, somewhat wackadoodle posts. Has anyone used this product? Is it just snake oil?
Mike


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Re: White tires

Post by mortier » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:18 pm

I don't see the Australian Tautflex paint in the USA, but there is 'vinyl paint" such as this one: https://www.amazon.com/ColorBond-Cream- ... B00K77FAEM

Might be interesting to try it on a tire. You could even try making black tires gray and leaving the tread black.

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Re: White tires

Post by TMiller6 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:29 am

I wonder if Toyota will fare any better with its all white tires....

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/forget-whi ... hite-tires
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Re: White tires

Post by REHelgeson » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:06 am


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Re: White tires

Post by Wkndead » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:12 am

The company of the above mention product is: Mission Restore. Amazon sell it and reviews are not that great. You can fine there line of products by entering the following on Google. "lasteffortgarage.com/cleaning-products.html" Interesting line of products.

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