MTFCA Forum

I bought a new radiator since my old one was not repairable. Much to my dismay, the radiator shell on my '26 does not fit over the new radiator. The hole in the shell is too far forward or the radiator neck is too far back. These are photos of my new and old rads. The neck on the new one is 1/2" back from the face of the rad. The old one is about 3/8".
This is the shell. I measured from the area where the paint is worn.
This is the old radiator. The neck has been resoldered. I suspect that my shell is one of those infamous bad reproductions and someone moved the neck to fit.

Can anyone measure their radiator or shell and tell me which is wrong? I spoke to Brassworks about this and was told that they have been using the same shell as a baseline for 47 years. I assume they made mine correctly and I will be searching for a replacement shell. I will post a few more photos in another post.

These are a few more photos.

And who's "new" radiator did you purchase ? I have a couple original radiators - I'll measure after breakfast !

RajoRacer wrote: ↑

Sun May 03, 2020 11:51 am

And who's "new" radiator did you purchase ? I have a couple original radiators - I'll measure after breakfast !

Brassworks

I have a Brassworks radiator in my 26 coupe. I snapped a few quick pictures.

Here is my 26 roadster. It has an original thin radiator still in it, along with the longer fan pulley. Sorry, I just noticed that the tape measure is off the front 1/4".

I can dig out my old radiator and measure it too if need be?

Did the thin radiator use a thin shell? I'll get out to measure my shell after lunch.

They look like the same shell. They both measure about 3 1/2" front to rear. When I ordered the new radiator from Brassworks. Lee told me that if I had the thin radiator and long fan pulley, that I would just have to swap it out for the shorter pulley. My coupe had the thick radiator and short pulley.

This a BERG High Radiator and '26 High Hood Shell. Without measuring its easy to see that the proper neck position on the radiator is almost to its front edge except for the one you bought

Re thin core, no the shell would be the same, the row of tubes would have come off the engine side not front. That is why Ford supplied the longer snout fan pulley to move the fan closer to the core.

Mark,

Check your E-mail, I sent you a possible fix for this problem that worked very well for me.

A visual compare - looks like the Brassworks needs to be a little more towards the front almost to the seam for the front face plate

Scott C. wrote: ↑

Sun May 03, 2020 12:26 pm

...... Lee told me that if I had the thin radiator and long fan pulley, that I would just have to swap it out for the shorter pulley. My coupe had the thick radiator and short pulley.

The thickness of the radiator requiring a different fan pulley is indicating a change towards the rear of the radiator - not the issue with the neck needing to be more towards the front.

Here are a couple of pictures of my old radiator out of the coupe. Just as the others the neck is within 1/4" in from the front. I would contact Lee again and present these comparisons to them. He should make it right.

Bob McDaniel wrote: ↑

Sun May 03, 2020 12:42 pm

Mark,

Check your E-mail, I sent you a possible fix for this problem that worked very well for me.

Thank you Bob.

The distance from the tank front to the fill neck is 1/2 inch on a new Brassworks radiator that I have not installed yet and is 1/4 inch on the radiator that had been installed for about 40 years.

The original one fit and worked OK.

I have no idea which is correct, perhaps 3/8 inch would be the best choice.

James, my original is a little over 3/8 (13/32"). I can't post photos from my phone. I'll reformat them and post tonight. I recommend checking fit of your shell if possible.

Mark: The original Ford round tube radiator on my '26 coupe sits 5/16" back from the front top edge of the tank. FWIW, jb

Measurements of the radiator neck to the outside of the shell are inaccurate and misleading because of the rolled edge of the shell. The shell needs to be measured from the inside as shown and the radiator from the neck to the front of the radiator for a comparison. From the picture of the Brassworks radiator theirs appears to be too far back. I remember reading somewhere that new repro shells didn't fit the old raddiators because the neck hole was located further back. Could Brassworks have sent you a radiator for a repro shell, by mistake? Have them tell you what it they say it should be and compare to what they sent. Don't send them pictures or tell them what you measured - they must tell you first!

Mark, yours is not the first Brassworks radiator over which the shell will not fit. First, your shell is not a reproduction. The high repro shells still had the sides square to the front, rather than angled out to follow the line of the hood, so they never could fit properly.
The new Brassworks radiator on my 25 wide body Duncan and Fraser roadster had exactly the same problem. It was solved by removing the radiator neck and re-positioning it in the correct place,3/16" to the front. In a nice piece of serendipity, I replaced the new neck at the same time. The radiator cap would only screw on 1 and a bit threads before it bound up. A nicely replated original did the trick.
Brassworks didn't want to know about it. They assured me that all their radiators are checked with an original shell before assembly. I had determined to buy my radiator through a local parts supplier, as he is bound by our consumer laws to provide goods fit for purpose. He instructed me to have the repairs done and he would re-imburse me the costs, which he willingly did. I do not know if he had any success getting Brassworks to come good.
Hope this helps. Do check that your cap will fit first.

Allan from down under.

I would not try to repair, correct, or relocate the neck on this radiator. You paid a lot of money for a new radiator that should have fit perfectly. Who knows what else may be wrong. You may have gotten a lemon. Ten years ago, I bought a new tall radiator from Brassworks for my ‘26 coupe and it fit perfectly. I’m sorry you did not have the same experience. You should call Brassworks and e-mail them your photos and measurements and have them issue you a UPS or FedEx return authorization number for you to return this faulty radiator at their expense. Since this problem was due to improper measuring and construction on their part, you should not have to pay to return it for the exchange of a properly constructed radiator. I can’t imagine a business not wanting to correct their mistake to the full satisfaction of a customer, but it is possible they may not, due to the expense of the return shipping. If that happens, let them know you have shared this with the MTFCA community (their customer base) and will keep us informed as the situation evolves and they may be more inclined to cooperate fully. Jim Patrick

I took better photos today of the critical measurements, which I will share with Brassworks. I told Lee that my shell's hole was 3/8" from the inside surface and he said his was 9/16". I didn't have a photo to share and don't know if he was measuring the same way. I'll send photos tomorrow so he understands the problem.

My shell is far from perfect but it is a Ford stamping and not a repro. I spent some quality time this afternoon with a hammer and dolly and I got the shell to fit better. I think I can make the shell fit somewhat.

Mark, a couple of words of caution. If you can work around having to send the radiator back for correction, and then having it sent all the way back to you again, I would do that. You will have ruled out hundreds of miles and any chance of rough handling damage that may ensue. If you have a competent local radiator shop in which you have confidence, have them quote for the alterations and let Brassworks know. it will almost certainly be cheaper for them not to have to pay for two lots of shipping plus the time involved. Be sure to take your shell with you to the repairer so he has the two components to make the job good.
Do NOT alter your shell. Juggling the hole for a tight fit will invariably result in the shell chafing against the radiator neck and wearing a groove around it, which may even develop into a cut.
Do NOT accept assurances that this is a 'one off' problem with a Brassworks radiator. It is not.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.

Not offering an opinion one way or another on the fitness of the radiator for the job, just this: it is a simple job to move the neck

I've had several friends and my dad as well, whose radiator necks broke off due to vibration combined with heavy motometers hanging off of them. I was surprised how easy it was to sweat the necks on and after I did the first one, was not at all worried about doing more.

The only thing I can see re moving the neck is the shape of the hole in the top and the shape of the base of the neck. If it was the flat flange style I could see just moving it, but in this case isn't the hole dished to match the base of the neck? Could the case be that the front plate is sitting away from the top, moved out not seated up to it?

Mark, I have the same concerns about the hole being dished and whether the front panel is pushed in far enough. I wish I had a bore scope to look inside.

I sent photos to Brassworks and will call later to talk to Lee. He had suggested on Friday that I have a local shop move the neck. I have a shop but I want to chat with Lee before doing anything.

I do not know the pedigree of the few radiators that I've soldered the necks back onto, but in no case was there a dished out area on the header which the neck fit into...it was just a slab of brass and the neck was free to go wherever you wanted it to be. In my case, the neck rolled back under itself to provide for it's solder base, and that curve at the OD provided a nice fillet area which provided for a nice seamless appearance post-soldering.

There was a good deal of latitude as to where I could physically place the neck and in fact had to be careful to end up at the correct location relative to the opening in the shell in each instance.

FWIW

Have 2 newest (5 years) Brassworks on the ‘27 and the ‘25, both shells fit neck area fine.

IMO the 26-27 brass nickel plated shell neck opening is bit rearward, lots of nickel shells show wear at the backside.
Here is my ‘27 fit:


And this is the steel shell’25 fit:

I pulled a brassworks out of my 30 tudor sedan and replaced it with a bergs, brassworks is just not always right sad they used to be much better. The bergs hands down is a much better radiator.

The top panel is not dimpled for the neck. It has a hole that's 1 1/4" diameter. The hole in the bottom of the neck is 1 3/4". This neck would be easy to move.

Unconscionable that Brassworks would say for you to have a local shop repair the radiator at your expense. They should, at least offer to reimburse you for the repair whenever you send them the repair invoice. Based upon their inadequate solution and some other postings on this thread regarding their anti-customer policies, I would not consider doing business with Brassworks. They may come to regret how they are handling this with you. It was their mistake that caused this. The correction should not be at your expense. That is just bad business. They may think they are saving money by not helping you, but the damage in customer goodwill will cost them more than what they saved. If however, they help you, the value to their business will be more than worth the expense of correcting their mistake. If they are so adamant about their bottom line, perhaps they should have the worker who made the mistake foot the bill for the repair from his wages, but not the customer. Jim Patrick

I received a call yesterday and stopped and measured. The radius of a neck to the front panel measured 9/16". You would typically not measure this way but that is immaterial. The dimension is not a number I readily know because we use an OE shell (as a fixture) to locate the neck. If you have a shell with a different neck hole placement that would be an obvious problem. It seems Mark does.

We could advance every neck forward for every radiator but I fear it would create an un-desireable gap between the core and shell and hood and shell. I can also put the neck anywhere you want and I have created a new item https://b22jg8vysc1wt8v6-1582039129.sho ... 7-model-ts for everyone that allows you to specify the neck location. We did this for the 1980s shell and have yet to sell one.

Anyone with any insight on the 1926 shell neck location, please email me at sales@thebrassworks.net. Jim Patrick please manage the rest of this forum. You are well informed and seem to have a real knack for it.

PS
Thanks for the images:

The neck on this radiator is not original.
I cannot determine whether it is paint or an upward flange on this tank wrapper. It does not appear to be consistent with any Ford radiator I have seen.
There is significant solder around the base of the neck which is not characteristic of a Ford but might suggest a repair or modification.
A piece of wood is used for the straight edge and there is daylight visible. The wood may be warped or the tank may be malformed. Can't say but would not rely on that for a dimension.
The shell images look OE but the shell photos with dimensions are not a help.
I appreciate the other radiator photos provided, they're aftermarket too.