MTFCA Forum

IS THE LONGER INSPECTION PLATE THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IN THE OIL PAN'S , CAN A SAY 1927 PAN WORK ON A 1925 ENGINE,I HAVE A EARLY FRAME, THINKING OF A SPEEDER, GOT A BUNCH OF ODD PARTS,

There are a few minor differences throughout the years of oil pan production... but all are interchangeable with the exception of the ‘08-‘09 narrow pan.

You may catch some flack for running a 4 dip pan without the upper support bolts of the ‘26-‘27 hogshead and block... but many have done this for many years without consequence

The 4 dip pans came out in 1924 and lots of T’s ran them with no issue.

When you do use that 4-dip pan, don't forget to add the factory flange reinforcements, 3118 Left and 3119 Right.

They add the necessary stiffness at the corners.

THANK YOU ALL, THOSE BRACKETS DAN, THANK YOU, NEVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF THEM.

Working on my barn fresh 1925 buckboard taught me that the 4 dip pan was introduced prior to the 26-7 model Ts. It does not have the pan rail reinforcements as pictured. In her gentle life it has not been a problem.

Allan from down under.

those brackets were designed for a reason, this got me thinking, the pan is supported at three points, the engine and hogs head are two piece,under certain stress conditions like when the frame is twisting with the right front wheel is up and the left rear is up ,this would put a strain on the oil pan in the place where the block and hogs head meet, and if the bolts around the both are not good and snug, this would allow the pan to shift out of shape at this point,when one thinks of it the reason the 26-7- cars have those two bolts added to the hogs head was to stop this problem, I've never seen the rig [only in a picture] that you bolt the early pans to, to realign the pan after its been twisted in this way, but that tells me this has been a problem in the past, with today's driving conditions this type situation is a thing of the past, just the same i'm going to find a set of them and use them. thank you Kevin, its great fun learning these tweaks that make up the model t Ford.

I'd put the stiffeners on any application they'd fit.

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 06, 2022 10:53 am

I'd put the stiffeners on any application they'd fit.

I do too. With some trimming, they'll also fit earlier pans.

First of all Richard, a stock 1925 has a 4 dip pan from the factory. I use the stiffeners on all my T's. For a 3 dip, some of the holes have to be elongated to work, but it's not to difficult to do.

Allan wrote: ↑

Sun May 10, 2020 11:16 pm

Working on my barn fresh 1925 buckboard taught me that the 4 dip pan was introduced prior to the 26-7 model Ts. It does not have the pan rail reinforcements as pictured. In her gentle life it has not been a problem.

Allan from down under.

I have wondered.
Did/does the 24/5 -4 dip pan have the extra clearance for the wide drum ??
Or are there a scarce number 4 dip pans around that wont take a wide brake?
I have not seen one. Could the wide brake been anticipated in 24?

From my experience, the wide drum fits just fine in a run of the mill earlier pan (though perhaps not the very EARLIEST pans) though it is a close fit...you just cannot fit the wide band in there. You must use the older hogs head and the narrow band. It all works quite well and saves you from destroying a good wide drum by cutting it down.

FWIW

John, I have seen 1 4 dip pan that would not accept the wide brake drum. This makes me think it was very late 25.

You must use a 26-27 hogshead in order to run a wide brake band- the band lug spacing won't allow an early hogshead with a wide drum trans and wide band. Non- 26-27 hogs heads must use a narrow brake band, regardless of the brake drum width.

Steve

later '25 used a wide brake drum and often times, it was a wide drum that did NOT take shoes like the "normal" wide drum took. We typically associate wide drums with 26-27, but they did come out earlier. Perhaps and likely, with the '26 model year (what some call "late '25")

Scott_Conger wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 06, 2022 3:20 pm

Steve

later '25 used a wide brake drum and often times, it was a wide drum that did NOT take shoes like the "normal" wide drum took. We typically associate wide drums with 26-27, but they did come out earlier. Perhaps and likely, with the '26 model year (what some call "late '25")

Yes, not all wide drums came with the replaceable shoes. This improvement was done during wide drum production. About the same time narrow drum replacements were made with the replaceable shoes. There is a service bulletin about modifying the output plate to fit.

I have a NOS wide drum without the shoes. There are 6 clutch lugs that also take the output plate mounting bolts as the earlier narrow drums do, as opposed the a "normal" wide drum that has 12 lugs, 6 for the shoes & 6 for the mounting bolts.

I don't follow the no shoes wide brake drum. It does not make any sense. Consider that there are late narrow drums WITH shoes. Why would they revert to previous practice after adopting them earlier?
Curious!

Allan from down under.

I'm with Allan on this one.

The narrow drums with shoes are replacement parts. Manufactured after the wide drum introduction.(no shoes) At the point when the wide drums got the shoes, so did replacement narrow drums. Narrow drums with shoes would not have left the factory in a motor.

Two major changes with the pans were the size of the "pulley valley" up front and the inspection cover underneath. An early pan with the narrow nose would not work well with the later larger pulley. Other than that I think you're good.