MTFCA Forum

Q #1: I have seen the bolt holding the low pedal's support facing both directions on various hogsheads: bolt head inside, bolt head outside. I can't really see from photos or manuals which way the bolt is SUPPOSED to face, as the castle nut or bolt head are buried deep beneath the clutch pedal is photos. My gut feel for all things Ford is that the three pedal support bolt castle nuts are all on the outside of the hogshead. I can't see that it really matters one way or another with the low pedal bolt, as the bolt head and its castle nut don't interfere with anything. The bolt could go either way. As long as I am this far into the hogshead restoration with O-ring sealing modifications, which way SHOULD the bolt face? I can't trust ANYTHING that was done on my friend's car and my other resident hogshead has been apart for 10 years. 'Gotta get back on that one someday...
Q #2: I will be saturating the hogshead felt seal strip with varnish to keep it from wicking and dripping oil. I read about this years ago and it seems like a good idea. I tried it once many years ago and as I recall, it worked. I have forgotten, however, with the felt strip saturated this way, do the over-long ends get folded double back upon themselves where the hogshead meets the oil pan in the corner? Or should the felt strip simply be trimmed? It's too much of a hassle and mess to do this more than one time, so I want to do it right the first time. My aching back demands it! We're talking about a cast hogshead here, not the more fragile aluminum one. So I should think it could take the doubled over end better than an aluminum hogshead, which tends to break if the felt is too thick.
No more dumb questions until tomorrow.
Marshall

It's very easy to break off the hole in the hogs head right at the end where it meets the felt, so I for one always trim off the end of the felt. I also use a lot of Ultra Black right at that joint because you have the block, the crankcase and the hogs head come together as well as the oil thrown up by the flywheel. I don't soak it in anything except to smear some ultra black on both sides. You don't want too much ultra black because it can seep into the crankcase and get thrown up by the flywheel and possibly clog the oil line. Use just enough to seal it. after you get things together and running, check for oil leaks and if it leaks, wipe clean the outside around that 3 way joint and use some lacquer thinner or acetone to get it real clean and then smear some ultra black around the joint. This will usually stop all leaks at that area.
Norm

Bolt heads to inside. I have done the felt both ways for sealing re sealer used (Steve's suggestion) or have used Permetex No 2. I leave the ends long and folded to inside. The Ford Service shows to place a piece of candle wicking in the corners, does not say anything on trimming the felt. The extra get crushed in the corner and take the place of candle wicking maybe, which is something I don't keep on the shelf anyway.

I seem to recall years ago people complaining that the felt strip that was available through vendors is too thick and that causes broken transmission covers when doubled over at the ends. Has that situation changed? It looks the same to me. Are they now the correct thickness that will allow doubling over?
Marshall

From what I have read the bolts are inserted from inside the hogshead with the nuts and split pins on the outside.
Do not cut the felt. Adjust it so both ends are at the bottom and hold the rest in place with your favorite gasket maker. I use silicon ultra black but I’m sure others are equally effective.
Do not cut the felt or transmission bands. Use all the material available. JMHO

In my case I don't double over, just fold out of the way, to the inside. In the past I think the statement is true (being too thick), but I have not really run into an issue with the ones I have gotten of late.

While I can see the rationale for soaking the felt with varnish it sounds like it would be messy and problematic if one ends by doing such a good job of sealing up the trans cover that it’s permanently glued in place. I’ve never accomplished a “perfect seal” on any of my Ts, so I can’t say if oil wicking through the felt is a big deal. Last I had the cover off, about three years ago, the felt strip was too thick by half again. I split it in half before the cover would settle without binding. I trimmed it flush with the cover and put . . . candle wicking . . . in the corners. (!) This is old news, I’ve no idea if the felt you get now is that thick. Gasket sets used to provide a 1/16” strip of cork gasketing for the purpose. That leaked just fine too !

I would counsel against using any sealants on both sides of the trans cover gaskets. That can make removing the cover very difficult next time you need inside !

I have used the varnish seal with good luck many years before Good RTV was available. I trim the felt to fit then dip it into a can of varnish. Then using a clip I hang it up to dry over night. This forms a dry crust on the outside of felt but the inside is still not dry. Form it over the back of the block, put a few dabs of RTV ( used to use permatex before RTV) at the corners. When you bolt the hogs head down, crushing the felt the varnish oozes out making a good seal.

John

Same here, have used varnish soaked felt over the hogshead block curvature for decades. You won't want to place Model T felts anywhere on the T without grease or sealant packed into the felt fibers, a dry felt isn't desired. It can't compress and do the job of a felt seal.

Here is hogshead prepped for placement, the soaked and partial dry felt is lying over the block curvature, placed there earlier.


Note the Pematex 2 on metal surfaces, and a bead of it over the hogshead curve.

Now the gaskets are trimmed at the corner junction to fit flush, take care there.
Then the crankcase is fitted with gasket, with Permatex on the metal, so the gasket is sealed to it. And the pre-soaked felt lying in wait. The only place I use RTV is in the corner, that modern stuff replaces the "candlestick wax" piece of Ford instruction. That corner is the place where a leak can happen, the intersection of 3 metal surfaces.


As for removal later, there isn't a reason to not coat both mating metal parts with Permatex. That way the gasket is covered both sides, for resistance to leaks. Have removed many times this same way, with varnish soaked felt and Permatex on all surfaces. A quick lift with a tool and the hogshead separates fine.

I lay the felt on some plastic and work black RTV into the felt, covering the whole surface. Then I turn it over and do the same on the other side. In effect, I have a silicone gasket held together with felt. That uncut length of gasket material is laid over the back of the block with just 1/4" left at the bottom on each side to provide extra material at the corners. The rest of the gasket is worked down against the block until it ALL sits in place. The same process works on alloy covers.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.

while on the subject of hogshead... There were some recommendations about the seals in the pedal cams but when I pulled the low speed pedal out it to replace the low speed notch and cam I noticed that it had a healthy coating of anti-size coating on it (same with the other pedals) . Is this something to do too? Are the other methods to use? One point was that some external leakage wasn't so bad has it would lubricate the cams of the other pedals etc since that is often over looked.

What type of varnish are u guys referring to? Gasket varnish with the Indian chief ?

dmdeaton wrote: ↑

Mon May 11, 2020 10:11 am

What type of varnish are u guys referring to? Gasket varnish with the Indian chief ?

If you still hav e the can save it! Its worth a few bucks. $39.99 for an empty can

Spar varnish
It hardens somewhat like hard plastic. I use it on wooden boats all the time. I’m not sure if I like this application for it but I don’t know much anyway

Question: Have been wondering why the felt strip hasn't been replaced with something like a neoprene strip. With all the doctoring methods descibed to the felt it would seem like some new material would be a better choice.

R.V. Anderson used to or still sells a neoprene replacement for the felt.

I tried the Permatex soaked felt on my 16 a few years ago and failed miserably. Then I followed Royce Peterson's advice and put a 1/4" bead of black Permatex on the block where it meets the hogshead instead of using the felt, worked perfect.