Updated Transmission Oil Video (While Car is "Moving")

[MadMax]

I'll try to keep this short (which is tough for me.!).

It finally hit me (Duhhh!) that I don't need to have the car moving to get video of the transmission working. All you need to do is have the wheels moving. I can't believe it took me a week to figure that out. I put the tail end up on jack stands, chocked the wheels and let her rip. This was great because I could control the lighting (unlike trying to do it outside with all the reflections and lighting). I also added another GoPro mount except to the bottom of the transmission cover this time. The GoPro was almost on the cover plate. I tried to yell loud enough that you could hear what I was doing, but I didn't start that until about half way through the video, then I say what I am doing (low gear, high gear, brakes, reverse...).

I kept the screen out as I was hoping to see what the guts were doing.

Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/JqW1g0xBPHA

[Steve Jelf]

Max, you should wear black shoes.

[Scott C.]

That video answers my concerns about how the screen redirects a large percentage of the oil to the rear and not to the linings and drums. I do not see much oil going to the rear without the screen installed. I am still inclined to think that using the screen, as purchased, could help in causing premature lining and drum wear and failures.
Thanks for posting these videos!!

[halftracknut]

Madmax, Did you raise the front of the car to level ? If the car is level you may see a little more oil on the brake band...I am really glad you made these video's it proved to me that the screen is necessary and I am glad I enlarged the holes and may even make them larger....thanks rl

[RichardG]

MAX, YOUR ONTO SOMETHING GOOD, IT'S LIKE LOOKING INTO THE FUTURE SO TO SPEAK,NOW ADJUSTMENTS CAN BE MADE TO IMPROVE THE 100 YEAR OLD SYSTEM, THE[ SCREEN ]--[FILTER]--- IDEA IS A VERY GOOD ONE, BUT NOW IT CAN BE PERFECTED, IN A WAY TO SUTE FILTRATION AND OILING SYSTEMS, HENRY WOULD APPROVE.

[Oldav8tor]

Regarding concerns about a filter restricting oil over the bands and drums, remember that not all the flung oil is going into the screen unit. I suspect a large amount hits the bottom of the front of the screen and is deflected downwards upon the drums. One thing the filter may do is direct more oil to the rear than would occur naturally. This assumes that the fine screen isn't plugged.

While very interesting, the assumptions drawn by viewing oil distribution thru a clear cover are not very scientific. It does, however, give us all something to think about. I'll probably make some modifications to my filter but all in all I believe it has benefits.

[Scott_Conger]

Tim

I believe that you and I are viewing the same thing and arriving at a logical analysis. I can also say that sans filter, the funnel becomes the next best filter and will in fact trap all of the band debris in the absence of the filter. It just takes longer. There is a reason that outside oil lines have been sold for over 100 years. I own a car whose engine relied solely on an outside oil line for who knows how many years before my purchase. It is remarkable what can build up in the original oil line if no other system is in place to extract detritus. If 1/2 cup of oil spending part of it's life sitting in the filter will be blamed for damageing anything, there were other troubles being ignored.

[Oldav8tor]

Scott, I have an external oil line and wonder if in your experience you've found the funnel to have collected so much detritus that the flow of oil to the front is restricted? Next time I have the tranny cover off I'm going to try to see if I can get a look at mine and see if there's anything in there. I want to do the best thing for my transmission and engine, problem is I don't always know for sure what the best thing is.... The law of unintended consequences is often at play with things mechanical. What seems on it's face to be a good idea may create problems that aren't at first evident. Obviously, there are some pretty strong opinions as to whether there is real benefit to a filter... I tend to think there is but agree that a little more investigation can't hurt.

[DanTreace]

IMO, the oil screen is a welcome addition to the Ford, for keeping the oil prior to change in the best condition, filtering out stuff.

BUT......you do need to inspect that oil screen often

Here is the new to me 1925 Coupe, today I began the process of going over the chassis. Have run it about 3 miles or so.
Anyway, loosening the inspection cover on the hogshead, got a gusher of oil over the ball joint

The screen pocket was full to the brim, like a pond!


So, those screens can fill and hold back oil from flowing.

At least the guts of the tranny look nice, good drums, nice triple gears. The trans is very quiet in low and reverse, brake band was way too loose, may have been the culprit of the Kevlar fuzz, or maybe, since the Kevlar looks real nice, could have had Scandi lining prior that shred, don't know the back story on this T.

[halftracknut]

I don't know how many types of screens are out there....but my screen does not drop oil on or even close the transmission bands...oil from the screen drops to the rear over the clutch spring and clutch shaft...there are 4 holes ahead of my screen and magnet located on a flat plate these 4 holes dump oil on the bands....in order to deliver more oil to my brake band I drilled the rear two holes to a larger diameter . This seems to fix my increased heat on the rear drum...

[Duey_C]

Here's what happens to the oil line over time Tim. This engine hadn't been started in 50+ years.
I got the 18 (a 23 engine) a few years ago and was checking valve timing as things were not right, getting ready to start it.
This is what I found in the end of the oil line. Yikes. No wonder the bottom end of the engine is loose.

Another neat video Max!

[RichardG]

HI ,DUEY, SAY LOOKING AR YOUR PICTURE OF THE PLUGGED OIL TRANSFER TUBE, WHY WOULD IT NOT BE A GOOD TIME WHILE YOU HAVE THAT COVER OFF TO DRILL A HOLE IN FRONT OF IT AND PLUG IT WITH A BRASS PLUG,WHEN YOU WANT TO CHECK IF OIL IS STILL RUNNING THROUGH PULL THE PLUG. AND A GOOD TIME TO RUN A WIRE IN IF ITS NOT.

[Duey_C]

Sorry about the thread drift Max but this is all related I 'spect.
GREG, that's a good idea but shoot, it looks like the cam gear is right in the way. Darn it.
Max, I was looking at your second video with the screen in place (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1w2vFT ... e=youtu.be).
At about the 2:50 mark when it starts and the oil comes, we see the inflood across the flat plate, the screen fills way up then the oil lowers a bit, finding its own level. Yet the flow across the plate doesn't appear to slow or get backed up. We can't say pressure thru the screen or can we?
Very interesting subject! Thank you!
Now I want a small piece of lexan for these 3... Back to the shop. What did I stop in for?

[Scott_Conger]

Tim

the car I mentioned running for years was getting no oil from the internal oil line. I bought the car, tightened up the bottom end, and then every 50 miles had to redo it. What the????????

I was changing bands for a tour (hope springs eternal!) when I saw oil sitting in the funnel...OOPS! How can oil just SIT there?? Well, it sits there when the line is plugged solid. Turns out the previous owner drove seldom, and the outside oiler was keeping the engine from destruction.

I ran a speedo cable through the line...took an hour as it was plugged solid. Once free of debris, and the bottom end reshimmed for the umpteenth time, the car has been run over 9000 miles with no additional work or adjustments. It is a noisy engine with loose tappets, very noisy timing gear (no wonder!) and clonking CI pistons. Runs like a top.

I learned that every car I buy or service for the first time, now gets passenger front bolt pulled from inspection plate below and car gets started. Oil should FLOW out that hole. If it does not...there is a restriction in the line.

[Scott_Conger]

Dewey

see this: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50 ... 1428587229

the answer to the question you haven't asked yet.

[MadMax]

Thanks again, all!

Duey, that's a great observation about the flow. I was looking at that and noticing that there didn't appear to be backflow so the screen is working and allowing oil through. The question asked by others about the bands, I suspect they are correct and that more oil could be going to the bands. I was too lazy when I put the screen back in or I would have opened them up at tad more. I'd say opening them a little won't hurt. We don't know what would happen if they were opened a lot. Then again, as noted, the oil from the screen looks like it is falling on the spring, so maybe a lot isn't a problem. Then again to 'then again' and as noted, that flywheel is REALLY throwing that oil around. I suspect that the reverse band gets all of the oil it ever would want, the high/low not as much as revers and the brake not as much as high/low.

Another thought and I may have mentioned this in the last thread; my screen was almost completely clean when I ran that screen test. If you had seen it before, you'd understand that if you are running a screen, make sure you check and clean it! I can't imagine much was getting through and I likely only had a couple hundred miles on it. Someone at Lang's suggested that my linings may be shot. I have no idea how old they are, but I suspect that aren't that old. I don't remember my dad talking about changing them and he might have done them himself. If he did them himself, they are really old. Looking at them, they aren't dirty looking as much as they look like they are squishing out. Lang's said that because the car wasn't driving for several years, they may have started dry rotting a little and that's where the fuzz is coming from. Needless to say, I will be changing them once I have someone available to help pull the hogs head as I've never done this and I'd like to have a seasoned T'r to make sure I don't screw anything up.

Randy's observation about the heat reduction indicates that getting more oil on that brake drum (and high/low) helps cut down the temperature. Also, Randy, did consider putting the front end up, but my damned floor jack bit the dust while I was trying to get the tail end up. Eventually I ended up using Model T Jack to do the job (nothing better than using a 100 year old part because a 15 year old part can't do its jobs, eh???). It looks like I need to invest in another set of jack stands.

Thanks again for all of the comments and encouragement! As I've noted, I'm relatively new to maintenance of a Model T. The car has been in my life since I was 9. The frame-up restoration was completed by the time I was 12/13 so I don't remember much... other than polishing brass... and polishing brass... and polishing brass... and ... and...

[Jeff Hood]

In the video above there is lots of oil flowing over the brake drum. If you watch carefully you will see oil dripping from the spring onto the drum, it just appears that the drum is not getting oil because it is being swept into the band lining but you can see it running out of the lining, and when the drum is stopped, plenty of oilcan be seen flowing over it.

In my experience, the screen assembly restricts oil flow to the drums. I have an old truck with a very tired and worn engine. It's a miracle that it even runs, but run it does, and I have put many, many miles on it. I have no idea how old the cotton bands are. I got a screen at one of our club meeting raffles, so I installed it in the truck. After a couple of tours I needed to adjust the low band. After a couple more tours I had to adjust it again, and then again! Now it was worn out! I relined it with a Scandi lining I had and had the same experience -constantly adjusting after a couple of tours. The Scandi wore out pretty quickly, and I didn't have another piece, so I found an old band with cotton lining and put it in and removed the screen. That band has been in there for several years now with very few adjustments needed.

Drilling the holes out may have fixed my issue, but so did removing the screen. I agree that it does collect a lot of junk, but in my case it was also causing some of that junk by causing premature lining wear.