MTFCA Forum

Brought to life after 50 years. The photos are how I found it almost 2 years ago and how it sits today. My uncle parked this in 1972 and it started for the first time since being parked today. So much pride. My first T. Changed the "new" oil and found a few bits. Don't think it is anything to be over concerned about.
[image][/image]
[image][/image]
[image][/image]

So much fun!

That looks great, Lee. Well done. The car looks amazing.

Lee,

It is always great to get them running again -- congradulations!

I'm sure you are already aware that the front top bow should be repositioned from the low pivot hole on the rear bow to the higher pivot hole on the middle bow. But if someone new to 1923-1925 roadsters is looking at the photos it could be helpful to them. The front bow should be in the lower hole on the rear top bow when the top is down so the front bow didn't stick out a lot further back when the top was down. But the front bow shuold be moved to the middle bow when the top is up to make it easier to enter & exit as well as for clearance for tall people etc. The photo below captured from Phil Mino's (R.I.P.) website show that clearly:

(continued)

Lee,

Next time you post a photo of pieces, recommend you include a ruler or a dime etc. next to them so we can see the size.

You mentioned the car had not been started since 1972. Did you change the oil before starting it? And did you find any pieces then? Or did you change the oil after you started it and found the pieces then?

I would guess and it is only a guess that the "strands" are cotten from cotten bands. But those could have been there for years or they could have just come loose. Removing the transmission inspection plate would allow you to check the condition of the band lining material.

The light colored metal pieces I would guess are babbit. If a magnet will pick them up -- then they are not babbit. But if they are babbit -- they could be left over from years ago or they could be coming off the rod bearings, cranshaft bearings, or other babbit bearings (camshaft) from your recent engine start. It is relatively easy to drop the crankcase inspection plate (order the gasket first before you drop it) and take a look at the #1, #2, & #3 rod bearings and the #1 & #2 main bearings. If you have a 4 dip crankcase inspection plate introduced mid 1924 (ref: https://www.mtfca.com/model_t_encyclopedia/doc24/ see the entry for Jul 18, 1924 entry) you can get to the #4 rod much easier than on the 3 dip inspection cover. If you have already checked those - then I would suggest draining the oil often until you figure out if any new babbit or metal is getting loose. (You can reuse the new oil -- just strain it looking for metal bits etc. and then put it back in.)

What is the the dark colored "L" shaped piece in your photo? Is it metal? If so -- is it babbit or steel/iron or other?

You do NOT want any loose magnetic metal parts that can be picked up by the rotating magneto magnets and cause the rotating fly wheel magnets to jam the metal piece into the magneto coil ring assembly. That can cause major issues. Please see: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/70 ... 1505852037 (note in that case they don't know what started the problem -- but that could result form a cracked magnet letting go or something jamming the magnets and it letting go etc. Bottom line -- not good to have loose metal near the spinning flywheel.)

Hopefully the loose items you found in the oil are all old babbit from years ago (plus the little bit of cotton band lining). But if you have not checked out the bearings in the engine, I would suggest you consider doing that.

Related safety items -- if you haven't read them before are listed at the posting at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/576808.html The Model T was built before OSHA etc. They are reliable and safe -- but like the horse they replaced they have some items that will bite you if you don't know about them.

Good luck and enjoy your beautiful T.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off

Thanks Hap.
I got the car back from the friend who did the body work with it set up like you see in the photo. I did the mechanical work and took to family upholstery guy. Obviously, none of us knew what we were doing when it came to the top. Wow, do I feel stupid. This is totally on me as I should have caught it when coming from the body shop. So the obvious question is, "When I correct the error, will the top still fit?"

Thanks again Hap.

It was 2 years ago when I did this but it somehow seems like a long time ago. I originally drained the oil, there was a good bit of band material in the oil but no metal. I replaced the bands, pedal supports, slow speed notch, and pedal shafts. Put in a gallon of cheap oil about 2 years ago and just used it for about 5 minutes run time. That is when I found the bits. You are right on the small bits, nonmagnetic. The metal curved piece had me stumped too, round wire. It may be off of the spedo cable I used to clear rust from water jacket.

Will include reference in future photos. All of these pieces would fit on a dime at the same time.

I am going to drop the crankcase inspection plate as it needs a new gasket. Thanks for the input and will check out the bearings. The engine number is 1196388x which I believe makes it a 25. 24 body with a 26 rear end.

Lee

Lee,

Still a great looking T! Industry was still learning about mass production and of course for that matter many other manufactures were looking at Ford and how he was successfully mass producing so many cars. It would be several more years before mass production started making parts so they would only fit the correct way and not several different ways. The Model T has several parts that will fit in more than one way. A few of the ones that happen often are:

The rear axle can be reassembled with the ring gear (crown gear for the Commonwealth folks) on either side of the pinion. You can even set the clearance within specs. But one way you have 2 forward speeds and one reverse and on the other side you have two speeds backwards and one really slow speed forward.

The spring perches can be installed different ways - especially if you have several to choose from you can have 2 lefts or 2 rights etc as well as installing the left and right one incorrectly. (And if you have accessory shocks/springs such as Hasslers you swap the spring perches and install them 180 degrees form normal to hook up the Hasslers. When the spring perches are installed correctly they set a positive caster for the front axle and that greatly helps the car track straight when going forward (don't back up fast -- it is negative caster and unstable going backwards). The incorrect way gives the front axle negative camber and when going forward the front wheels want to go full left or full right. Sort of like the front wheels on a shopping cart.

The front axle spindles can be installed on either side of the front axle -- they will fit and look OK to most folks. When installed correctly the threaded outer bearing (or outer cone for the earlier ball bearings) wants to loosen as the car goes forward. The washer and nut prevent it from becoming loose. But when installed incorrectly the threaded front outer bearing (or outer cone for the earlier ball bearings) tends to tighten as the car moves forward. That can lock that front wheel and or split the hub. And again if you have multiple parts (in this case spindels) to choose from you can have one side correct and the other incorrect.

So don't feel bad about the top installation. I love what John Maxwell says, "Sometimes we win -- sometimes we learn."

I suspect -- but I do not know for sure -- that if your current top was installed with the bow in the wrong pivot point, that it will need some additional material added. There is an easy way to check that. Disconnect the top from the front windshield. Get someone to help you put the front bow in the proper pivot point on the middle bow. Lower the front bow down (don't use a lot of force -- or you will rip the top material etc. If it fits -- great. If not -- many of us leave the top down and no one will notice. And if you want to put the top up -- to provide shade etc. it still works the way it is -- just duck your head when you get in and out of the car. And put that on the fix later list. You can also take it back to your family upholstery shop and have them fix it.
Now it would be easy to match the material. I would guess they will only need to replace the very top section as I believe the rear panel is a separate piece (but I have not done an open top).
And if you had side curtains made -- they will probably need some modifications. Note -- many of us do not drive our cars when it is raining. Sometimes you don't have a choice -- you need to get home etc. And sometime you are on a tour or longer trip and you can't just wait a day or two and then go for a drive.

I'm glad to hear the pieces are non-magnetic and would all fit on a dime. That is much better than if they were all over 1/4 inch in length etc.

The MTFCA has some good books on engines etc. But it is even nicer if you have someone walk you through some basic items such as checking the rod bearings etc. Next best thing is a video. Some local chapters have MTFCA DVDs on several subjects. I don't see a MTFCA chapter in Georgia. But the MTFCI (another great group of T folks and many of us belong to both clubs) has a chapter a little of an hour north of you. Their point of contact is listed as Calvin Watts; P.O. Box 672; Fairmount GA 30139 (from their website for Chapters at: https://www.modelt.org/chapter-listings.html ) Some of the chapter have a library and may have the DVD that you need. I just checked the MTFCA website at: https://modeltstore.myshopify.com/produ ... e57a&_ss=r and I didn't see a DVD listed for checking the rod and main bearings. I may have missed it or perhaps it is in one of the other DVDs?

Hopefully someone will add a link to Mike Bender's excellent site that has some great "How to" information. I don't recall if he shows how to check the rod and main bearings or not.

There are also some public domain books from back in the day -- See Ford Service at: http://www.cimorelli.com/mtdl/servicema ... ndexed.PDF It may discuss that. If you have never checked connecting rod bearings or main bearings before -- I would recommend you wait until you have someone to walk you through it or you have some good guidance from a book or video. It isn't hard -- but just like you can install parts incorrectly you can do this wrong and the engine won't run etc. [How could that happen? Well my Dad when he was around 16 tightened the rod bearings on a Ton Truck. He had never done it before and he removed all the shims. The engine could not be turned over even when the truck was pulled. He learned you want a little clearance (from memory about .001) but not so much that it knocks when it is running.

Anyone close to Atlanta GA that might be able to point Lee to someone who has checked and if needed adjusted bearings? My initial concern was if the babbit pieces were large that one or more of the babbit bearings was cracked and coming apart. If the engine is running and not making a knocking sound and if you don't get any more pieces in the oil -- you probably are OK. IF a bearing is cracked and coming apart -- you will have bigger pieces and usually noise. Don't run it if that is the case as the connecting rods can come loose and go through the block destroying the engine or the loose pieces may jam between the magnets and magneto coil ring etc.

Also -- that safety link I posted. Did you check to see if the rear axle has bronze thrust bearings or the origin babbit thrust bearings? Babbit can fail and then you will only have your parking brake NOT your transmission brake.

You may already be there. You have a beautiful car. The engine etc. may be in great shape. You just want to make sure so you don't cause any major damage by mistake. You will get it sorted out. It isn't rocket science -- many of the Model T owners in the teens and twenties probably didn't have a high school education. And besides they didn't teach you how to adjust or check the rod bearings in most high schools anyway.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off

You have quite a few errors with your top and upholstery. Do some in depth studying and you will figure it out. I hope you can re-position the top covering so you can get it to fit. Look at lots of factory photos to begin with!