MTFCA Forum

I have a 27 frodor, the engine has oversize valves, counterbalanced crank, flywheel magnets removed oiler to front main and dippers, running a stipe 290 cam with adjustable timing gear and engine has been degreed. Also using a dan hatch floating trans shaft ball bearing fourth main. The rest of the running gear will be modernized as well. I have the following choices on I can use on this engine thought I would ask some of the folks here who have done this

Hi-volume intake maniflod with straight thru holley NH Also have a walpro with air cleaner

Winfield intake to run a zenith or tillotsonx both rebuilt

Have also seen the vw solex carb(new to me )

The car has a chaffins dual exhaust manifold as well

Use the Model A intake/exhaust (they can be mounted with or without the adapter plate). There are lots of updrafts that will bolt up and give you more varoom! Stromberg OE-1 for example.

Marc I considered that as well altho I do not have the model a setup in its entirety

There have been many reports that the Walbow lawn mower carbs do not run or perform well without a fuel pump. A straight through NH or a Simmons or Wizard straight through would be the easiest and most authentic. A Zenith updraft carb on a Winfield manifold also appear to be popular, though they require linkage modification. I had a 4 door sedan with a warmed up engine similar to yours and had a Model B exhaust manifold and aluminum intake manifold with a Stan Howe rebuilt Stromberg OE-1 updraft carb. I removed the setup and returned it to stock before selling it, so I still have the setup. Pictured with the aluminum intake is the Model B exhaust manifold with its 45 degree outlet, but I have a regular Model a manifold with the 90 degree down outlet, also. I, also, have the complete exhaust from manifold to tail pipe.

What ever setup you put on, unless the fuel bowl on the carb is below the bottom of the fuel tank where it would be in the stock setup, you might need to add a fuel pump with regulator set around 1-1/2 lbs along with an kill switch in case of rollover otherwise, you would be running out of gas with lots in your tank.
I saw the 1927 but missed the fordor part with the tank under the seat.
If you wanted to run what you have listed and if the bowls don't sit low enough you could eliminated the fuel pump and add an extension between the carb and manifold.
The Solex is downdraft so would require a fuel pump. Depending on which Solex it is, I ran a #28 for a while on my Chevrolet overhead, not too bad off the line but slow acceleration over the 30-35 range. On the flat did over 50 but took a while to get up to that speed.

Here is an opportunity for you to do some fun testing.
I would start out running the NH straight-through side-draft Holley.
Get a good feel for the car and take the bugs out of all the systems.
Once you have it running well, switch out to the Winfield type updraft with the Zenith.
You haven't specified which Zenith carb you have, but I assume it has the flow capability for this engine.
From my experiences of testing different carbs and flat-heads I am fairly certain you will be able to feel an increase or drop in performance.
If you want to get more technical, set yourself a test run area and time your runs and compare performance.

This should be instructive: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/41 ... 1417982157

If you have the Winfield manifold, look for a Winfield M (or better, a V) to run it. I have Winfield carbs on all my old cars, and once they're dialed in, they rock. Second (for me) are Zeniths... they're equally supercool... I just like Ed Winfield's work for simplicity... If you told me you could make 1920's technology work like modern fuel injection when changing altitude without fiddling with jets and adjustment, I would have laughed... but I now know better.

Plus you can size and dial either in for anything from sub-stock to wildly out there. Believe me... you won't regret the investment.

First of all I want to thank everyone for your responses, the stuff I listed is things I have accumulated over 40 years. Scott that was quite helpful. I do understand carburetion, cams timing and ignition. I failed to mention I have a bosch front plate on this engine with the vw distributor. In my background i raced and built engines for motorcycles and race cars so I have a pretty good understanding of what I am trying to do. Thanks for the great pictures for comparison. Once again I truly appreciate the responses and suggestions from you folks. I will be running a fuel pump no matter what I do. Does the walbro perform well if you use a fuel pump?

Steven

you're welcome.

I am guessing that your backround is what is leading to the questions regarding the Walbro. To your questions, I'd simply say: "tell us what you think when you're done experimenting".

While it is a new carb, it isn't designed for it's repurposed life, and honestly, the carbs listed in earlier posts were...and they are remarkably sophisticated for their era. For the record and what you are hoping to accomplish, forget the NH straight-through. It wasn't a performance carb; it was a failure that was shortlived due to hard starting relative to it's contemporaries, and it's modest performance improvement while under way is only a modest improvement over its sway-back brother. And each of those pale in comparison to all the other after-market carbs mentioned above.

Try a Carter BB1. The accelerator pump makes a difference. Rebuilt ones come from Gene Tesch in NJ

John - This is almost "OT" because it's something I did to my '29 Model A Briggs Town Sedan, however, it pertains to the Carter BB1 (updraft) that you mentioned John. My Model A is completely stock, and the engine runs great, however, it is getting a bit loose. A couple guys in our club, like me, are "nutz" enough like me, to have both Model T's AND Model A's, and they told me what a good carburetor the Carter BB1 is on a Model A. Because at the time, I had a bit of a carburetor problem on the "A", I decided to try one, and those guys were right! It runs "GREAT", and I'm glad I tried the BB1. It was necessary to make an adaptor out of a little piece of quarter inch aluminum plate, because the "A" intake manifold is just a little bit larger in all dimensions, including the two carb mounting bolt hole spacing, but the simple adaptor plate worked out just fine.

A few words about the BB1,.....for what it's worth. I say "a few words", and invariably, I become too "wordy", but I'll try to avoid that. Suffice to say, the BB1 is just a bit more sophisticated, because it was designed a few years later than the Model A era. I believe they were used on a lot of Dodge trucks as well as all kinds of military machinery, like pumps, compressors, generators, etc, etc. during the WW2 years. I've also been led to believe that many of the very old and very large cars of the brass era use BB1's very successfully, when a carburetor is needed but the owner opts NOT to spend some very BIG BUCKS for an ORIGINAL restored carburetor.

John mentioned the accelerator pump, which I also especially like, due to it's extreme simplicity. Many modern carburetor accelerator pumps can eventually require attention, due to worn or dried-out diaphragms, etc, however, the BB1 accelerator pump is so simple and foolproof that it's almost laughable! It's is a simple metal piston, very loosely fitted in a cylinder, so that if it ever does experience some wear, it doesn't matter. It's engineered so that even with it's engineered "sloppy fit", its sudden movement when the throttle is "cracked" supplies the required squirt of fuel without fail. When I first heard "accelerator pump, my first thought was,....."oh boy,....something to wear out",....but nope! Not this one, it just fits "sloppy" and very reliably does what it's supposed to do! And by the way, again this is on my Model A, so I can't say about a BB1 on a Model T, but then there not much difference in displacement between a T and an A,...I think the "T's 177 cu. in as compared to the "A's 200 cu. in.

O.K.,...as I said,...I always get too wordy,....but just one more comment, for what it's worth:

Several years ago, there was some forum discussion about the BB1, and Stan Howe in his usual no "BS", right to the point style, said something to the effect that,..."yeah, they're a pretty O.K. carburetor, but that he'd probably consider others", or words to that effect. Well, my "take" on that is if Stan Howe says it's "okay", you can bet that there's not a darn thing wrong with it! And coming from Stan, that's good enough for me!

O.K......enough! I'll shut up now,.....harold

One of the Old Guys in our club runs model a manifolds and carburetors on two of his T's, and can whip the pants of all the rest of us, though he is amazed how well my little TA race car runs. It has a Winfield V on it and as Susanne said, they are very good carburetors. I was going to run the BB1( I have seen these run very successfully) but came across the Winfield and am happy with how it runs but, an accelerator pump would sure help it spool up.

Hi Steve ,
I like the Tilleson & Shebler carbs because the can be adjusted while driving like the stock carb. I find that invalueble for getting the most out of my T.
There are good air filters and parts are easy to find. I do find a fuel pump & regulator a must. I run 2 1/2 psi. Don't buy a cheap pump & regulator, they will leave you on the side of the road. I think you will need a adapter for the winfield manifold if the bolt pattern is 90 degrees off. Good luck fave fun. Craig.

Well I must say all of the responses posted by you guys have been most helpful so i can experiment some I have a professionall rebuilt Zenith from Dave renner as well as a new tillotson X I would probably go with the tillotson because I like to adjust things according to how the engine feels running down the road. One important thing is to have a hot spark and I do have the electronic ignition in this distributor. Many people poo-poo them as unreliable I have found the key to the electronic ignition is good ground in otherwards right back to the battery, I have done this on my model a and have no issues, points do wear and timing does change as a result altho it takes some time to do so. Scott your comment on the walbro tells me no matter what they are a compromise and not the best choice no matter what. I have purchased a good fuel pump as well as a regulator. I run a Weber downdraft on my model A and really love it.

Depending on the Zeinith, you may play the devil with trying out different jets to get it to run well on your particular setup. Stan Howe makes an adjustable jet that takes that out of the equation. Perhaps your guy did the same, I don't know, of course. Just thought I'd mention it.

Scott i did not know that this zenith was on my 30 model a before I put a weber on it I will check into that.

Steven

I should have realized from your earlier description and photos that it was for an "A". No worries. Everything adjusts. No special jet required.

Ok Scott I think i am going to go with the zenith of the tillotson x either will work since i have a windfield intake or I do have extra model a parts as well.

I wrote a long post about this yesterday but it wouldn't post and then dumped it so...

Put a stromberg MB1 on it.
No fuel pump, no problems, period correct, all the carb you need. Buy a high volume manifold, either turn the flange or make an adapter, put it on and go have fun.

I have always wondered why those tuning a T would not want to use dual carbs...over carburetion?
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/17 ... 1324432042

Stan I will have to look one of those up I am down here in kansas.

Ralph Ricks got me hooked on them.

About ten years ago I bought a bunch that were discovered in the original Ames speedster building in Louisville, Ky.

New old stock.

They are all happily powering speedsters now.

Not a lot of them around. I pretty much buy every one I can find.

Been here....
Because one good carb will outrun two NH's.