Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
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Topic author - Posts: 913
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Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
The hay wagon made out of a late Model T chassis found in a Farmer's field has been purchased. It will make its way from Ennis, Tx to Houston to be turned into a Model T Speedster. The fenders, splash aprons, and running boards are in Johnston, PA purchased but not picked up: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12817&p=96062#p96062 Other than that it basically needs everything.
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Should be easy to get home, it already has a tow bar and the rear tire is only flat on the top.
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Really Dallas! Everyone knows one or the other, square wheels or round ones, never mix them as they never track correctly.
The cool thing is most start this way. My 1925 Boat-Tail started from my Dads rust pile of parts in Montana.
Good Therapy!
Hank
The cool thing is most start this way. My 1925 Boat-Tail started from my Dads rust pile of parts in Montana.
Good Therapy!
Hank
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Hey, that's great. Perhaps we will see some photos of the progress. It reminds me of a couple others but I didn't take photos along the way.
Thanks for the report.
Rich
Thanks for the report.
Rich
When did I do that?
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
As you know,I love projects like this! You got a good deal on those fenders.You can't ship new 1's for that price,much less buy them!
Post progress pics!
And do check the front axle for bends and holes.The wagon conversion I picked up years back had holes in the axle.
Post progress pics!
And do check the front axle for bends and holes.The wagon conversion I picked up years back had holes in the axle.
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Very cool project. A little gas, oil, starting fluid -you'll have it running in no time.
Good luck with it!! We'll expect to see progress photos.
Good luck with it!! We'll expect to see progress photos.
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
That is how my T speedster began its rebirth in 1968 central Texas. Many of the cotton farmers of the early years stripped their worn out T's down to the chassis, added a towing tongue and used them to haul cotton from the fields. At the time, I figured if they could make a trailer from a Model T then I could make a Model T from a trailer. Here I was negotiating with the farmer and in the background is the trailer I ended up using. We were sitting on a TT my brother and I were fixing at the time.
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Topic author - Posts: 913
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Thanks for your support. The original pictures and comments are in this thread: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/82 ... 1546080974 'Pre-1917 leaf springs'. Love it.
-- IV
-- IV
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Looks like Don Meadows one from Nashville.
Hank
Hank
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Topic author - Posts: 913
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Frank, the former owner who says that the hay wagon came with the farm when he bought it 57 years ago so its origin is unknown.
Possible captions for the other are: 1) How much is this going to cost. 2) Needs work, and 3) my personal favorite: ran when parked.
Possible captions for the other are: 1) How much is this going to cost. 2) Needs work, and 3) my personal favorite: ran when parked.
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
A 2020 version of "The Thinker".
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Oh no.
I know how this is going to turn out...
A Dr's Speedster... Ignacio, this'll just dig up controversy.
Eh hem.
I can't wait to see any progress here!
I'm up to my neck in OT things so you're gonna get me again on a speedster project! Like the axle project...
Hehehe!
I'm gonna be very happy for you and I'll threaten to fly down there so I can have a ride.
My Crappy ol' 24 Runabout started pretty much the same way. Trailer parts.
I know how this is going to turn out...
A Dr's Speedster... Ignacio, this'll just dig up controversy.
Eh hem.
I can't wait to see any progress here!
I'm up to my neck in OT things so you're gonna get me again on a speedster project! Like the axle project...
Hehehe!
I'm gonna be very happy for you and I'll threaten to fly down there so I can have a ride.
My Crappy ol' 24 Runabout started pretty much the same way. Trailer parts.
Since I lost my mind mind, I feel more liberated
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Hey Waggin’ we call that here in dim dar hills.., “a happy dog”!
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Good start and you have more to start with than I did. Hopefully that 4 dip pan is good enough to use and not rusted out.
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Topic author - Posts: 913
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Transformation has begun.
Tires for sale only 57 years on them. Home at the garage. Hay wagon u-brackets are off. Rear is looking like a T again.
Tires for sale only 57 years on them. Home at the garage. Hay wagon u-brackets are off. Rear is looking like a T again.
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Topic author - Posts: 913
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
More pictures and questions.
It is not a hay wagon anymore. All of the trailer type hardware is off. I did not have to cut anything off which was great. Pretty sure the front axle is bent. Yes those are $7 Harbor freight small furniture movers under the rims they work great. The oil pan looks ok in the pictures but it is toast, swiss cheese. I do not know what to do about the front frame corners. That shape does not look original but I am not sure what shape to make it or how. Both front frame corner sides have the same bent-looking shape. Also the front spring clamps seem to be missing. I don't see that Lang's sells them for earlier than 1916 what am I missing?
It is not a hay wagon anymore. All of the trailer type hardware is off. I did not have to cut anything off which was great. Pretty sure the front axle is bent. Yes those are $7 Harbor freight small furniture movers under the rims they work great. The oil pan looks ok in the pictures but it is toast, swiss cheese. I do not know what to do about the front frame corners. That shape does not look original but I am not sure what shape to make it or how. Both front frame corner sides have the same bent-looking shape. Also the front spring clamps seem to be missing. I don't see that Lang's sells them for earlier than 1916 what am I missing?
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
That's the fun way to do it.
I also like your Corvair in the background. 63?? 64?? I'm trying to round up the money to buy a 61 Lakewood wagon that I've been drooling over. She wants too much money for it but on the other hand, how many of those do you see?? Not many!!
I also like your Corvair in the background. 63?? 64?? I'm trying to round up the money to buy a 61 Lakewood wagon that I've been drooling over. She wants too much money for it but on the other hand, how many of those do you see?? Not many!!
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
1964 Corvair Monza Coupe "Lisa" is her name. I learned how to weld on her. Lots of Model T'ers have the Corvair affliction and vise versa.
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
You can do it !!!! Great to see a model t will not hurt in the process.
24-28 TA race car, 26 Canadian touring, 25 Roadster pickup, 14 Roadster, and 11AB Maxwell runabout
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Look at that. Ya drag a T indoors, even without an engine block, and it starts leakin' oil!
Since I lost my mind mind, I feel more liberated
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
That is a late 26-27 frame. Those corners and the extended rear crossmember (with the flange on the bottom edges) are the dead giveaways. You might possibly find the frame number too, it would be on the passenger rail, on top, in the vicinity across from where the parking brake quadrant would be. I'd be surprised if it didn't have a number on it...although I had a frame that was numberless, but it was the early style 26 also.ivaldes1 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:27 pm
I do not know what to do about the front frame corners. That shape does not look original but I am not sure what shape to make it or how. Both front frame corner sides have the same bent-looking shape. Also the front spring clamps seem to be missing. I don't see that Lang's sells them for earlier than 1916 what am I missing?
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Topic author - Posts: 913
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Have dismantled it a lot and found surprises.
One of the hub bearings was shot. It had been basically turning on grease only for who knows how long: Spindles are worn, one looks ok the other not. Enough thread left for this to work? 10 spring leaves probably to level it as a hay wagon. The top one is intact and I can use it for the bottom set which has a broken tapered top leaf: Perches are out of the axle. The perch nut was so corroded it had to be cut off. There was no nut on the other side of the wishbone, just a cotter pin.
One of the hub bearings was shot. It had been basically turning on grease only for who knows how long: Spindles are worn, one looks ok the other not. Enough thread left for this to work? 10 spring leaves probably to level it as a hay wagon. The top one is intact and I can use it for the bottom set which has a broken tapered top leaf: Perches are out of the axle. The perch nut was so corroded it had to be cut off. There was no nut on the other side of the wishbone, just a cotter pin.
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Corroded nut on wishbone. Nut and bolt were so corroded that it had to be cut off to be removed.
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Topic author - Posts: 913
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
We've decided to keep the chassis more or less 26-27 and from there up be more or less 1916 style.
Today we continued taking things apart. Opened the differential. Disintegrated Babbit, missing aircraft wire, pulverized detached bolt, good Hyatt bearings, sludge. A great time by all. My children helped me remove rust from the chassis.
Today we continued taking things apart. Opened the differential. Disintegrated Babbit, missing aircraft wire, pulverized detached bolt, good Hyatt bearings, sludge. A great time by all. My children helped me remove rust from the chassis.
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
WTH? How'd you get those perches out? That's neat!
Since I lost my mind mind, I feel more liberated
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
That spindle thread is past being usable. It looks like it has had model A type front outer bearings rather than the threaded, more expensive T model items.
Allan from down under.
Allan from down under.
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
You're a long ways from Montana but if you need some stuff come on by. I have half a dozen chassis better than that I would give you, piles of front and rear axles, wheels, stuff and miscellaneous.
We are going this week to pick up some frames and T stuff to keep them from the scrapper and there is still a lot of stuff in Montana just laying around in scrap yards and piles.
Most of it isn't worth much and nobody wants it bad enough to come get it.
We are going this week to pick up some frames and T stuff to keep them from the scrapper and there is still a lot of stuff in Montana just laying around in scrap yards and piles.
Most of it isn't worth much and nobody wants it bad enough to come get it.
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Topic author - Posts: 913
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Twenty tons of persuasion I cut the corroded nut off with a angle grinder without damaging the wishbone. That freed up the wishbone, then put the axle on a 20 ton press and 'tong, tong' sounds and out they came. I had to do the bad one twice though because the threaded side mushroomed so I pushed it back in cut the mushroomed head off and re-pressed it.
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Topic author - Posts: 913
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Much obliged on your offer, maybe I will take you up on that one day but this chassis has sentimental value to the farmers family which is why I am fixated on it.
StanHowe wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:04 pmYou're a long ways from Montana but if you need some stuff come on by. I have half a dozen chassis better than that I would give you, piles of front and rear axles, wheels, stuff and miscellaneous.
We are going this week to pick up some frames and T stuff to keep them from the scrapper and there is still a lot of stuff in Montana just laying around in scrap yards and piles.
Most of it isn't worth much and nobody wants it bad enough to come get it.
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
I inspected the differential thrust pins today: 5 are sheared off. Going to be fun drilling them out...
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Chassis including the differential is mostly dismantled. I save everything including things that are probably useless. Box of parts:
Last edited by ivaldes1 on Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Neato Ignacio!
I may have some bits and pieces that you can use, from my parts chassis.
I may have some bits and pieces that you can use, from my parts chassis.
1924 Touring
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
"I inspected the differential thrust pins today: 5 are sheared off. Going to be fun drilling them out..."
Probably just pressed in and not hardened steel. Sometimes once the drill bit begins to bite in, the remains of the pin just spins out. At least in the housings, the pin is stepped, with the base much larger than the what secures the thrust washers.
If they are stuck, many recommend drilling about a quarter inch in. Then tapping the pin base for a number ten machine screw and using the screw to pull the pin base out. I find they usually come out fairly easy.
The differential carriers, I don't know. I don't think I ever needed to repair those. Always had good ones.
Probably just pressed in and not hardened steel. Sometimes once the drill bit begins to bite in, the remains of the pin just spins out. At least in the housings, the pin is stepped, with the base much larger than the what secures the thrust washers.
If they are stuck, many recommend drilling about a quarter inch in. Then tapping the pin base for a number ten machine screw and using the screw to pull the pin base out. I find they usually come out fairly easy.
The differential carriers, I don't know. I don't think I ever needed to repair those. Always had good ones.
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Springs are taken apart. On my first model T it took me days to figure things out and hours to push worn bushings out. I also couldn't afford the bushing tool. This time it took me about 40 minutes to push out bushings on 3 sets of springs. These will get cleaned up and painted hopefully soon.
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Ignatio, you will not need that many leaves in the rear spring of a speedster. Because there are three bends in all but the top two leaves, they have to nest together properly to be effective. You should decide which leaves are required and bolt them together first. If there are gaps anywhere, ideally the leaves should be reset so they nest together.Sorting out which ones you need first will save you some work.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
The suppliers have a kit , a centering tool, drill, tap, screws and instructions,(Guide is no longer included) you likely have t he items in your work site. https://www.modeltford.com/item/2531BT.aspx Caution is not to drill to deepWayne Sheldon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:04 pm"I inspected the differential thrust pins today: 5 are sheared off. Going to be fun drilling them out..."
If they are stuck, many recommend drilling about a quarter inch in. Then tapping the pin base for a number ten machine screw and using the screw to pull the pin base out. I find they usually come out fairly easy.
The past is a great place and I don't want to erase it or to regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.
Mick Jagger
Mick Jagger
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Yes it looks like 2 sets have been doubled up and I am missing the one with the rolled end that holds the clamps. Sigh.
Allan wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:56 amIgnatio, you will not need that many leaves in the rear spring of a speedster. Because there are three bends in all but the top two leaves, they have to nest together properly to be effective. You should decide which leaves are required and bolt them together first. If there are gaps anywhere, ideally the leaves should be reset so they nest together.Sorting out which ones you need first will save you some work.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Only the early round and tapered end springs had a leaf with the turned up ends. The chopped end types had a clamp with a separate bolt which passed under the spring pack.
Allan from down under.
Allan from down under.
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Big box o parts and tools came from Lang's today. This is my second time to rebuild a differential, the first time January 2017 you can read all about the adventure here: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/70 ... 1490798775
Let's just say it was not easy the first time. This time the sleeve removal and thrust pin removal took me about an hour. It took me much longer the first time. I also lost some of my manliness when I botched the thrust pin stump removal and had to punt to a machine shop. This time I ordered the removal kit and It went very smoothly. All 4 pins came out, no trip to the machine shop this time.
Hyatt bearing sleeve coming out with the removal tool. Putting it into a vise helps a lot to stabilize and allows you to pull as you twist. Thrust pins out with the removal kit, well worth getting. I wonder what kind of drill bit is in the kit because it goes through steel much faster than my bits do. I cleaned the holes out with a Q-tip and the new pins went right in.
Let's just say it was not easy the first time. This time the sleeve removal and thrust pin removal took me about an hour. It took me much longer the first time. I also lost some of my manliness when I botched the thrust pin stump removal and had to punt to a machine shop. This time I ordered the removal kit and It went very smoothly. All 4 pins came out, no trip to the machine shop this time.
Hyatt bearing sleeve coming out with the removal tool. Putting it into a vise helps a lot to stabilize and allows you to pull as you twist. Thrust pins out with the removal kit, well worth getting. I wonder what kind of drill bit is in the kit because it goes through steel much faster than my bits do. I cleaned the holes out with a Q-tip and the new pins went right in.
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Please take the time to reinspect those pin settings.
If those pin steps are not level with the internal machined housing surfaces, a big problem will occur. I have never seen any replacements that fit perfect without some grinding/sanding of the back side. Just Sayin'!
Hank
If those pin steps are not level with the internal machined housing surfaces, a big problem will occur. I have never seen any replacements that fit perfect without some grinding/sanding of the back side. Just Sayin'!
Hank
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Good point, Hank.
and "went right in" makes me pucker a little, too!
and "went right in" makes me pucker a little, too!
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
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- First Name: Allan
- Last Name: Bennett
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Ignatio, I think the concerns about the fit of your pins centres around that shoulder in the pin. That shoulder must be level, or even a bit below, the surface into which they are fitted. Otherwise the steel washers will not sit on that surface and your bronze thrust washers will not be able to perform as they should. The same applies to the pins in the diff centre halves.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
We don’t want you to be where others have been, premature failure!
Hank
Hank
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Ground the rivets off to remove the brake backing plate to reveal nice insect larvae and webs. Having difficulty removing the brake cam bushings see other thread discussion 'Thin Bushing Removal'.
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
First sandblast bid is in, way too high right now, need to get some more.
Getting cleaner on the differentials. The process: Kerosene scrub twice. Broke up the grease lumps inside the tube with a piece of steel pipe. Ran through a round toilet brush with a string attached multiple times. Taped a side off with blue tape, put some kerosene in, tennis ball on the other side, shook it around. Drain. Finished off with Castrol Clean Up and water hose using a screwdriver and steel brush to get the remaining crud out of the crevices and the last of the gasket material off. Where the Hyatt bearing sleeves were is rough textured, I wonder if that is normal? Beautiful right spindle arrived, looks like new. The old one was a repurposed wrong side that was beat up.
Getting cleaner on the differentials. The process: Kerosene scrub twice. Broke up the grease lumps inside the tube with a piece of steel pipe. Ran through a round toilet brush with a string attached multiple times. Taped a side off with blue tape, put some kerosene in, tennis ball on the other side, shook it around. Drain. Finished off with Castrol Clean Up and water hose using a screwdriver and steel brush to get the remaining crud out of the crevices and the last of the gasket material off. Where the Hyatt bearing sleeves were is rough textured, I wonder if that is normal? Beautiful right spindle arrived, looks like new. The old one was a repurposed wrong side that was beat up.
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Some of my axles look like that with rough cuts taken, boring those sleeve-surface inside diameters.
Certainly no expert at all but I'd say quite normal. Guys?
When my best axle tubes came back from getting cooked out, there was a bunch of dry crud left in the tubes, I grabbed a piece of 1/4 or 5/16 rod, bent a U in the end and used the drill to clean. EDIT with the brush.
If it works, that's the right way to do it (Dave Gingery).
The pic turned out good! One of my worst looking, bent axle tubes.
Certainly no expert at all but I'd say quite normal. Guys?
When my best axle tubes came back from getting cooked out, there was a bunch of dry crud left in the tubes, I grabbed a piece of 1/4 or 5/16 rod, bent a U in the end and used the drill to clean. EDIT with the brush.
If it works, that's the right way to do it (Dave Gingery).
The pic turned out good! One of my worst looking, bent axle tubes.
Last edited by Duey_C on Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Since I lost my mind mind, I feel more liberated
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
I have an appointment with the sand blaster tomorrow so I sped up the pace a bit. Dismantled completely the chassis which had been re-put together at some point with bolts not rivets and to get the blaster to clean out the crannies. Straightened things a bunch too that had been bent. Some pieces like a leaf spring and the rear cross members had small cracks, others deliberate cuts so I welded the cracks/cuts and ground them smooth. Partially put the differential halves back together. Straightened a bent radius rod and did the final straightening on the front axle. Looks straight to me. Loaded it all in the soccer-Mom van and off we go to the sand blaster. I am going to spray everything immediately on the sand blast site with phosphoric acid metal prep to keep it from flash rusting.
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Blasted! Their compressor was huge, looked like a V8 engine on a trailer.
Just after blasting.
Found out they will epoxy prime too for a good price so they are getting ready: -
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Parts are back from the blaster epoxy primed with Sherwin Wiliams Macropoxy 645 B58 W 610. Chassis is back together again, rear spring pack is back together again, all the springs and new perches are re-bushed. See other discussions on worn out rear axle key way viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14093 and probably not Ford front spring: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14108
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Heading home to Houston now in the last RV that was available in Houston. We went all over but visited High Plains Model T in Longmont, CO with Dave Huson. Dave has a remarkable collection and we were able to get most of the missing chassis parts and much more. Then we visited Model T Haven in Iola, KS and picked up among many things a speedster gas tank and a brass windshield. So we are headed home now with a cargo bay area full of rusty gold!
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Sounds like a great trip ! We will expect more progress reports.
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Wow!
Your farm trailer, hay wagon has the same tounge set up on it like the one that was a T chassis(wagon) I bought at a local farm auction 40 plus years ago! That must have been some type of kit or the same guy was making them and selling them. I’m in Central Texas close to Waco, so not all that far away.
I was buying T parts where I could find them and farm auctions was a good place because not many people wanted them.
Strangely enough I had to buy a flat bed 38 Ford pickup to get it for a grand total of 35.00 dollars as I remember. Nobody wanted the package deal but me!
I wanted the T chassis and parts more than the 38 Ford so I had to give a friend the 38 truck to get the T stuff hauled to my house.
I later realized he got the better deal but I did get the T farm trailer! Lesson learned.
Your farm trailer, hay wagon has the same tounge set up on it like the one that was a T chassis(wagon) I bought at a local farm auction 40 plus years ago! That must have been some type of kit or the same guy was making them and selling them. I’m in Central Texas close to Waco, so not all that far away.
I was buying T parts where I could find them and farm auctions was a good place because not many people wanted them.
Strangely enough I had to buy a flat bed 38 Ford pickup to get it for a grand total of 35.00 dollars as I remember. Nobody wanted the package deal but me!
I wanted the T chassis and parts more than the 38 Ford so I had to give a friend the 38 truck to get the T stuff hauled to my house.
I later realized he got the better deal but I did get the T farm trailer! Lesson learned.
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Keep the tongue, you may need a tow bar someday.
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Woohoo! Fun stuff Ignacio! Like that the blaster would prime too.
That happy face with your fresh primed parts from the 4th is a priceless photo.
And a trip up to Dave's and the Haven. Safe travels!
That happy face with your fresh primed parts from the 4th is a priceless photo.
And a trip up to Dave's and the Haven. Safe travels!
Since I lost my mind mind, I feel more liberated
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Looking good Ignacio!
You seem to be slightly ahead of me on the Model T infection. If so, it won't be long until I start in on my second one.
You seem to be slightly ahead of me on the Model T infection. If so, it won't be long until I start in on my second one.
1924 Touring
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Thanks for the comments, we arrived back to Houston late last night and had to unload the RV. Here is a picture of most of the purchased hoard, a lot of it in the blue plastic tub. Not shown is a speedster gas tank acquired at Model T Haven and the differential half Dave Huson generously gave to me so that I could harvest the single rivet brake lever off of it. Treasure! Being in Dave Huson's amazing shop made me want to clean mine up when I returned home...
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Topic author - Posts: 913
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Speedster gas tank topic: https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14377
Why is one drive shaft longer than the other? https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14379
Why is one drive shaft longer than the other? https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14379
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Topic author - Posts: 913
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Bending a twisted running board bracket: https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14814
I have new rear axles with transplanted rear axle gears since the old rear axles key ways were very worn out. I have begun rebuilding the differential with a higher gear ratio of 3:1 courtesy of Terry W which is supposed to give 7 miles per hour faster at a given engine speed.
I have new rear axles with transplanted rear axle gears since the old rear axles key ways were very worn out. I have begun rebuilding the differential with a higher gear ratio of 3:1 courtesy of Terry W which is supposed to give 7 miles per hour faster at a given engine speed.
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Topic author - Posts: 913
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Front axle bushing sticks out: https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14819
Gouged pinion gear: https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14818
Gouged pinion gear: https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14818
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Nice work so far Ignacio. You working really well. Thank you posting updates. Appreciated.
Super Mario Bross
1911 Touring
1914 Speedster
1911 Touring
1914 Speedster
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Nice chatting with you on the phone the other day.
You're turning into quite the T guru!
You're turning into quite the T guru!
1924 Touring
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Topic author - Posts: 913
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Likewise Don, I have great teachers.
RustyFords wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:03 pmNice chatting with you on the phone the other day.
You're turning into quite the T guru!
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
The awful, no-good, nasty, bad, dreaded fiber disc washer sanding and installation is done. Sanding the fiber disks down is so much fun because it is almost like catching a wave with a surfboard on the belt sander and the disc can go flying across the shop multiple times if you lose control of it which is often. Full stop until you recover the fiber disk. Also the belt sander results in irregular thickness.
Next up is page 27 of The Model T Ford: Front and Rear Axle book by Glen Chaffin which shows the micrometer width of the disks which is supposed to be between 0.095 and 0.085 per the book. The belt sander also sands them irregularly. See the micrometer value of 0.094. They eventually were sanded down to 0.088. Back together again at last, ready for aircraft safety wire on the crown gear side. Some do aircraft wire on the case bolts as well instead of cotters. -
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Please, no adjustable spanners! those are for the farm when we don't have wrenches. They are the cause of rounded nut and bolt edges.
Work honestly
Stay true to your word
Get the job done right
Stay true to your word
Get the job done right
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Ken B. - This is probably a bit "OT", but since you brought up "adjustable spanners" (or adjustable wrenches), I agree with you, and what you said is one of the first things my DAD taught me when I was old enough to start working on bicycles! He said,..."never use a Crescent Wrench when you can find the proper size box wrench or end wrench, because they will round off the nut or bolt head". And he was right!
However, have you seen the new "locking" adjustable wrenches? I can't help but wonder why it took all these years to perfect the adjustable wrench! It's a new tool that combines the advantages of vice-grips and the adjustable wrench,....and they're GREAT! The only "down side" is that they are just a bit more "bulky", but what a handy tool! One of those tools that you might not use too often, but once in awhile, it'll really help you out of a tight spot! Not only does this new locking adjustable wrench lock onto the nut or bolt head (to eliminate the rounded off hex points) but you no longer have to call your wife or grandkid or somebody, when you're wrenching on the nut underneath the car, and somebody has to hold the bolt head of the bolt on the inside of the car,....or, other side of that wall, or whatever!
If you haven't seen one of these yet, Google,...."locking adjustable wrench". Or better yet, try one next time you're in the hardware store or wherever. Not sure why Harbor Freight Tools doesn't offer one yet,...must be a patent problem or something, but several tool companies make them now. Got mine from STANLEY tools, because it was far cheaper than all the others and seemed just as good quality, for $9.95 (U.S.)
Anyway,...sorry for the "OT" but it seemed to fit in here,.....FWIW,.....harold
P.S. Good tool to carry in you emergency tool kit for the road!
However, have you seen the new "locking" adjustable wrenches? I can't help but wonder why it took all these years to perfect the adjustable wrench! It's a new tool that combines the advantages of vice-grips and the adjustable wrench,....and they're GREAT! The only "down side" is that they are just a bit more "bulky", but what a handy tool! One of those tools that you might not use too often, but once in awhile, it'll really help you out of a tight spot! Not only does this new locking adjustable wrench lock onto the nut or bolt head (to eliminate the rounded off hex points) but you no longer have to call your wife or grandkid or somebody, when you're wrenching on the nut underneath the car, and somebody has to hold the bolt head of the bolt on the inside of the car,....or, other side of that wall, or whatever!
If you haven't seen one of these yet, Google,...."locking adjustable wrench". Or better yet, try one next time you're in the hardware store or wherever. Not sure why Harbor Freight Tools doesn't offer one yet,...must be a patent problem or something, but several tool companies make them now. Got mine from STANLEY tools, because it was far cheaper than all the others and seemed just as good quality, for $9.95 (U.S.)
Anyway,...sorry for the "OT" but it seemed to fit in here,.....FWIW,.....harold
P.S. Good tool to carry in you emergency tool kit for the road!
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
You're right Harold. ..."when you can find the proper size box wrench"...
Some of these OldTractors's here were seriously shoved back in to service, out in the field after a very quick fix.
Pliers are even harder on bolts/nuts.
By gum, I have one those long-lever clamping, adjustable spanners here! A bit clumsy but I think it works OK.
Tried it a few times when I couldn't find the proper size wrench.
Ignacio, I spent a FEW evenings sanding those fiber washers to get things back together...
Next come the brass/bronze thrust washers. Oh wait, you know that already...
"It takes time."
I V, you know full well if we have thru bolts, the cotters are just fine. If we have studs thru the differential, then we wire it.
Some of these OldTractors's here were seriously shoved back in to service, out in the field after a very quick fix.
Pliers are even harder on bolts/nuts.
By gum, I have one those long-lever clamping, adjustable spanners here! A bit clumsy but I think it works OK.
Tried it a few times when I couldn't find the proper size wrench.
Ignacio, I spent a FEW evenings sanding those fiber washers to get things back together...
Next come the brass/bronze thrust washers. Oh wait, you know that already...
"It takes time."
I V, you know full well if we have thru bolts, the cotters are just fine. If we have studs thru the differential, then we wire it.
Since I lost my mind mind, I feel more liberated
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Topic author - Posts: 913
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Crescent wrench? Adjustable spanner? Oh that one. Officer I swear to you I have never seen or used it in my life!
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Igcanio, Regarding the differental caier, the early style from the teens into the early 1920s used studs with nuts and gets safety wired the later 1920s style used bolts with nuts and uses split pins. The studs could back out of caier with split pins so must be safety wired.
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Topic author - Posts: 913
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Further along. Have acquired a low head. The pawl for the hand brake has been changed with much pounding to get the old pivot out. Moving on to the steering gear.
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Topic author - Posts: 913
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Hand brake lever issues: https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14476
Three steering columns and one wood wheel? https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14886
Three steering columns and one wood wheel? https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14886
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Ignacio, It was a real pleasure meeting you yesterday and I will be one to be watching your project progress. Good luck with every aspect of this. All the best, Daniel
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- First Name: Joe
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- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 24 Fordor
- Location: Tiffin Ohio
- MTFCI Number: 24066
Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
The low head is a big buck head, early, no Made In USA on it.
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Topic author - Posts: 913
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:32 am
- First Name: Ignacio
- Last Name: Valdes
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Touring
- Location: Houston, Tx
- MTFCA Number: 50406
- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Drive shaft follies are mostly over with Fun Projects spool and 13 gear pinion now on. Drive shaft bushing and further differential re-assembly next.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15153
Castle nut and other fastener assortment assortment with guide and links to summaries of sizes:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15164
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15153
Castle nut and other fastener assortment assortment with guide and links to summaries of sizes:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15164
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- Posts: 1069
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
- First Name: John
- Last Name: Warren
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14 Roadster, 25 Pickup , 26 Canadian Touring , and a 24-28 TA race car
- Location: Henderson, Nevada
Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Great project to follow, Thanks Ignacio for sharing. jw
24-28 TA race car, 26 Canadian touring, 25 Roadster pickup, 14 Roadster, and 11AB Maxwell runabout
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something
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Topic author - Posts: 913
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:32 am
- First Name: Ignacio
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
The drive shaft bushing is in and I am about to put the differential all back together. New sleeves are on the inner aspect, unlike what the picture shows the Hyatt bearings were all thoroughly cleaned and the inner one was installed a bit later. I discovered that at this time I may not have sufficient spool bolts or studs to complete the job immediately.
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Topic author - Posts: 913
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:32 am
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
One more gear and axle picture. Cleaned up, bronze thrust washers on. Will be functional as a differential again for the first time in over 57 years.
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- First Name: Richard
- Last Name: Eagle
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1909 TR 1914 TR 1915 Rd 1920 Spdstr 1922 Coupe 1925 Tudor
- Location: Idaho Falls, ID
- MTFCA Number: 1219
- Contact:
Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Thanks for taking time to share the progress and pictures.
I recall the fun Norm and I had building this from a Hay-wagon that had been shortened. It had hauled something pretty heavy as the rear axles bearings were destroyed. With a Warford the drive shaft is less than two feet long. Even being lowered the short wheelbase let it get through some hairy terrain. It was a peppy little car and ran for a dozen seasons.
Rich
I recall the fun Norm and I had building this from a Hay-wagon that had been shortened. It had hauled something pretty heavy as the rear axles bearings were destroyed. With a Warford the drive shaft is less than two feet long. Even being lowered the short wheelbase let it get through some hairy terrain. It was a peppy little car and ran for a dozen seasons.
Rich
When did I do that?
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Topic author - Posts: 913
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Rear brake cam bushings are in. The first one went in ok with a hammer, the second didn't so I switched to threaded rod. The first rod wasn't big enough and eventually stripped, the second 3/4 inch bolt was plenty big enough and did the job. Then I reamed it a bunch with the hand reamer shown and it is all good to go now.
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Topic author - Posts: 913
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Update: Spindles are on. I ended up using a 1/2 inch drill bit and a drill press because my cheap adjustable reamer broke a tooth. The 1/2 inch drill bit seemed to work fine on both the spindles and the Steven's tool insert. Little to no movement on the spindle bolt. The mostly small rusty chassis replacement parts have all been repaired, extraneous stuff removed, cracks welded and at the sand blast/prime place. I discovered one front fender/front light mount is bent at the base. I think that I need to mount it to a stud and try to bend it back but it is already at the blasters so I will have to try to fix it afterwards.
Waiting for the rear roller bearing cover (spool) bolts to come in the mail.
Waiting for the rear roller bearing cover (spool) bolts to come in the mail.
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- First Name: Don
- Last Name: Allen
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- MTFCA Number: 50001
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Topic author - Posts: 913
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:32 am
- First Name: Ignacio
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
More small parts, many that the frame was missing are back from the sandblaster/painter. I plan on 1926-27 chassis down, 1916 up above so I am probably going to use a late model engine mount. If you wonder why I have 12 solar power inverters in my garage by the frame on saw horses the answer is 'seemed like a good idea at the time'. I have everything ready to start riveting probably this weekend unless I go fishing with this fellow.
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Topic author - Posts: 913
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
The 'horns' of the late chassis corner brackets have been amputated getting ready for early model fender hangers. The frame is upside down because it is easier to re-rivet the frame with it upside down.
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Call me crazy (not literally Ignacio ) but I think very old items like this have a living element of some sort in them.
And...watching them get saved and revived like this is, I believe, a very honorable thing.
You're making great progress...keep it up!
And...watching them get saved and revived like this is, I believe, a very honorable thing.
You're making great progress...keep it up!
1924 Touring
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Ignacio,
You're doing some great work there! You mentioned a few times how long things took you when you first started playing with T's. Having read some of your early threads, I can truly say that you've learned a huge amount since then and are doing some very nice work! I have also admired your tenacity. So many people find out that this stuff can be a lot of work, then get discouraged and quit. Not you! Happy to have you with us. Keep up the good work!
You're doing some great work there! You mentioned a few times how long things took you when you first started playing with T's. Having read some of your early threads, I can truly say that you've learned a huge amount since then and are doing some very nice work! I have also admired your tenacity. So many people find out that this stuff can be a lot of work, then get discouraged and quit. Not you! Happy to have you with us. Keep up the good work!
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- First Name: Sean
- Last Name: Bittle
- Location: Orlando FL
Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Enjoy watching this come together.
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Topic author - Posts: 913
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Okay we are done with riveting and have moved on to painting the chassis.
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Topic author - Posts: 913
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Related to this project:
Drilling Steel?
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17747
Craftsman 919.15624 Paint Sprayer for T Chassis:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15557
Beginner Frame Riveting:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15557
Painting using Tractor Paint:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17755
Drilling Steel?
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17747
Craftsman 919.15624 Paint Sprayer for T Chassis:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15557
Beginner Frame Riveting:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15557
Painting using Tractor Paint:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17755
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- First Name: Tom
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
It appears you have in mind using a 26-27 frame and putting earlier fenders on it. The spacing for the running boards and body mounts are different. Just something to keep in mind. The first speedster I built was on a 27 chassis, using earlier sheetmetal and I had to relocate all the brackets. Great post. It’s fun to go along with you on your build.
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Topic author - Posts: 913
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Thanks for the diagrams Tom. The differential and more parts are painted. Starting on stripping the black paint off the wheels.
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Topic author - Posts: 913
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
More paint stripping. I treated the rust pits under the paint on the brake hubs with phosphoric acid after wire brushing to bare metal. The spokes are a pain to get the paint off of. Citrus strip starting on my 3rd round.
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- First Name: Allan
- Last Name: Bennett
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
- Location: Gawler, Australia
Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
The quickest/safest/easiest/best way I found was to hand scrape the spokes, along the grain, using 1"wide strips of window pane glass. Paint strippers soften the paint, but you still have to get it off the wheel. That usually means scraping and washing and, as you have found, more than one application.
The glass gets the hard paint off first go. It comes off in dry chips, leaving the wood ready for sanding. No drying needed and no chemical residue left to possibly affect the finish coats. When the edge gets dull on the glass, toss it and grab another piece. It still takes time, but it does make for a well done job. Try it with a couple of pieces from a broken bottle.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
The glass gets the hard paint off first go. It comes off in dry chips, leaving the wood ready for sanding. No drying needed and no chemical residue left to possibly affect the finish coats. When the edge gets dull on the glass, toss it and grab another piece. It still takes time, but it does make for a well done job. Try it with a couple of pieces from a broken bottle.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
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Topic author - Posts: 913
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:32 am
- First Name: Ignacio
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Differential is nearly ready to install. It was heavy getting out of the painting cave.
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Topic author - Posts: 913
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Front running gear is painted. More little parts including rear brake hubs.
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Topic author - Posts: 913
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:32 am
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Wheel paint has been stripped with 3 treatments of Citrus-Strip and lots of wire brushing. The wheels are hung up ready to paint. Treated the residual rust that was resistant to wire brush with phosphoric acid metal prep. Painting will commence soon.
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Topic author - Posts: 913
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:32 am
- First Name: Ignacio
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Re: Hay wagon to Speedster Project.
Allan I used the curved edge of the paint tool in the picture to good effect on the round spokes. It fits the curve of the spoke well enough.
Allan wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:47 amThe quickest/safest/easiest/best way I found was to hand scrape the spokes, along the grain, using 1"wide strips of window pane glass. Paint strippers soften the paint, but you still have to get it off the wheel. That usually means scraping and washing and, as you have found, more than one application.
The glass gets the hard paint off first go. It comes off in dry chips, leaving the wood ready for sanding. No drying needed and no chemical residue left to possibly affect the finish coats. When the edge gets dull on the glass, toss it and grab another piece. It still takes time, but it does make for a well done job. Try it with a couple of pieces from a broken bottle.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.