When Were Lock Washers Introduced to Model Ts ?

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
User avatar

Topic author
George House
Posts: 2291
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:25 pm
First Name: George
Last Name: House
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: ‘10 Maxwell AA, ‘11Hupp Model 20, Two 1914 Ford runabouts, 19 centerdoor, 25 C Cab,26 roadster
Location: Northern Caldwell County TX
MTFCA Number: 115
MTFCA Life Member: YES
Board Member Since: 1999

When Were Lock Washers Introduced to Model Ts ?

Post by George House » Fri May 29, 2020 4:38 pm

The other day I was disassembling a 11 7 19 Model T motor when I recognized the block/crankcase bolts were cotter pinned but the trans cover/crankcase bolts/nuts were fastened with lock washers. This made sense I thought because the engineers determined the hogsheads had to be removed on occasion to change bands. This begs the question: were the cotter pin/lock washers used in this way for this reason from the beginning or were the lock washers introduced at a later date perhaps at band changes ??
I don’t know why I turned out this way. My parents were decent people.

User avatar

DanTreace
Posts: 3323
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Treace
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
Location: North Central FL
MTFCA Number: 4838
MTFCI Number: 115
Board Member Since: 2000
Contact:

Re: When Were Lock Washers Introduced to Model Ts ?

Post by DanTreace » Fri May 29, 2020 10:50 pm

From the Encyclopedia:

1924:
FEB 2, Acc. 94, (“Bolts, Nuts, etc.” folder) Letter from W.C. Klann to Martin and Howard:
nd
“On Dec. 2 , 1924 Mr. Martin and Mr. Galamb O.K.’d
building motors with no cotter keys in the bolts but using lock washers instead in the crankcase, transmission cover and cylinder block assembly only. Why not put this on the blue print? Please advise.”
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford

User avatar

Topic author
George House
Posts: 2291
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:25 pm
First Name: George
Last Name: House
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: ‘10 Maxwell AA, ‘11Hupp Model 20, Two 1914 Ford runabouts, 19 centerdoor, 25 C Cab,26 roadster
Location: Northern Caldwell County TX
MTFCA Number: 115
MTFCA Life Member: YES
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: When Were Lock Washers Introduced to Model Ts ?

Post by George House » Sat May 30, 2020 9:06 am

That’s perfect Dan ..Thanks !!
I don’t know why I turned out this way. My parents were decent people.

User avatar

Mark Gregush
Posts: 4962
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:57 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Gregush
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 cutdown PU, 1920 Dodge touring, 1948 F2 Ford flat head 6 pickup 3 speed
Location: Portland Or
MTFCA Number: 52564
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: When Were Lock Washers Introduced to Model Ts ?

Post by Mark Gregush » Sat May 30, 2020 9:35 am

Several other places used the lock washers earlier; under the screws that held the starter on and the pinion housing bolts when the open type was introduced about 1920. The starter and generator had a number of them too; brushes, screws for the brush plate etc.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup

User avatar

Topic author
George House
Posts: 2291
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:25 pm
First Name: George
Last Name: House
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: ‘10 Maxwell AA, ‘11Hupp Model 20, Two 1914 Ford runabouts, 19 centerdoor, 25 C Cab,26 roadster
Location: Northern Caldwell County TX
MTFCA Number: 115
MTFCA Life Member: YES
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: When Were Lock Washers Introduced to Model Ts ?

Post by George House » Sat May 30, 2020 4:02 pm

Yes. I knew that Mark. My question concerned the bolts through the crankcase that Dan precisely answered.
I don’t know why I turned out this way. My parents were decent people.

User avatar

Mark Gregush
Posts: 4962
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:57 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Gregush
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 cutdown PU, 1920 Dodge touring, 1948 F2 Ford flat head 6 pickup 3 speed
Location: Portland Or
MTFCA Number: 52564
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: When Were Lock Washers Introduced to Model Ts ?

Post by Mark Gregush » Sat May 30, 2020 5:20 pm

And I was adding to what Dan said for others reading this. :)
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup

User avatar

DanTreace
Posts: 3323
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Treace
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
Location: North Central FL
MTFCA Number: 4838
MTFCI Number: 115
Board Member Since: 2000
Contact:

Re: When Were Lock Washers Introduced to Model Ts ?

Post by DanTreace » Sat May 30, 2020 5:58 pm

Thanks Mark

Maybe others will do a full list of lockwashers on the T! like the list done by Murray Fahnestock's "Lizzie's Hairpins" where he listed the cotter pins!

To add more: lockwashers under the 4 Bendix cover screws. ;)
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford


John kuehn
Posts: 3922
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: John
Last Name: Kuehn
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 19 Roadster, 21 Touring, 24 Coupe
Location: Texas
MTFCA Number: 28924

Re: When Were Lock Washers Introduced to Model Ts ?

Post by John kuehn » Sat May 30, 2020 7:57 pm

After dissembling several T engines over the years and noticing lock washers being used in different year motors I have a feeling that back in the T era they were used more often as time went on in repair shops. For a purist using the original style is probably a must but in everyday use in a repair shop from the 20’s and onward I bet the mechanics really got to like using lock washers when putting the engines together.


J1MGOLDEN
Posts: 957
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:39 pm
First Name: James
Last Name: Golden
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Model T Roadster
Location: Bowie, MD
MTFCA Number: 14294
MTFCI Number: 13562

Re: When Were Lock Washers Introduced to Model Ts ?

Post by J1MGOLDEN » Sun May 31, 2020 9:43 am

Some of the blocks that I have disassembled have a groove cut for the smaller or thinner lock washers and also cotter pins.

I have only found those thinner lock washers on house and garage electrical fittings in fuse boxes.

User avatar

Fordwright
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:14 pm
First Name: Greg
Last Name: Popove
Location: Olds AB

Re: When Were Lock Washers Introduced to Model Ts ?

Post by Fordwright » Sun May 31, 2020 10:05 am

https://www.boltscience.com/pages/helic ... ashers.htm
Helical spring lock washers have been in use for well over 100 years. They are still used on many applications in the belief that they will will "lock" the nut/bolt to the joint and prevent loosening. The body of evidence, based upon both experience and experimental results, is that they do not prevent loosening and can be shown to actually speed up the rate of loosening in many cases. Junker originally showed in his work published in 1969 that these washers are ineffective in preventing loosening. Joints containing these washers have come loose resulting in structural failure leading to both material and human loss.
A series of tests were performed by Bolt Science to illustrate the performance of this type of washer compared to a plain nut by itself. The results are shown in the videos and in the preload decay curve below. The preload decay curve is from the tests shown in the video. The tests were performed on M8 fasteners.


John kuehn
Posts: 3922
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: John
Last Name: Kuehn
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 19 Roadster, 21 Touring, 24 Coupe
Location: Texas
MTFCA Number: 28924

Re: When Were Lock Washers Introduced to Model Ts ?

Post by John kuehn » Sun May 31, 2020 10:11 am

This is an interesting post.
Did a google search about lock washers. it shows that lock washers were patented around 1922.
Ford started using them in 1924 so that would seem to show that Ford was starting to use newer technology in fasteners. A little here and a little there as time went on not only in nuts and bolts but in other ways to try to improve his Model T.

User avatar

DanTreace
Posts: 3323
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Treace
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
Location: North Central FL
MTFCA Number: 4838
MTFCI Number: 115
Board Member Since: 2000
Contact:

Re: When Were Lock Washers Introduced to Model Ts ?

Post by DanTreace » Sun May 31, 2020 10:51 am

John

That patent in 1922 may only have been an improvement on existing art of past mechanical locking means.

But as the earlier post, lock washers have been around for over a 100 years, found one ref in 1904, this offering in Motor 1906 shows pretty much today's lock washers. Ford used them in many places early on.


Lock washers 1906 .jpg
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic