MTFCA Forum

I've been restoring for the last 2.5 years my 26 coupe that I bought as a kid in 1962. It's nearly finished just adding LED brake lights. It's been running very well, have driven it up and down the road and been starting if for folks when they come over to see it. About 3 weeks ago I started it as usual and it ran for a min or so then stopped. I thought maybe out of gas. I didn't put in any gas as I was waiting on a new sediment bulb, as my original leaked and I didn't want to drain the tank to put the new one on. So after installing the new one, I tried to start it. It would turn over OK put, put a couple times then the starter would spin. And it would try and kick back against the starter so I tried a couple more times same thing, I didn't want to break the bendix so I quit.
I figured that something was up with the ignition. So I removed the coils and cleaned all the contacts, shined up the plug wires, and sandblasted the plugs. Removed the timer and put in a brand new roller checked the case. Measured everything, Tried again same thing,
I thought maybe some crap got in the carb from the tank, so removed the gas part of the vaporizer cleaned it, really didn't see anything, put it back together, same thing.
I can't figure what's up seems to have good compression with the hand crank, what really puzzles me is the kickback. Almost like it jumped time. Has anyone else ever had a problem like this? Really puzzling after running great. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

sounds like a fiber timing gear may have taken a dump.

Run in the needle on the fuel mixture and reset to 1 1/2 turns out. Pull a plug, re-check for spark. If this does not do it, you might want to double check the timing from top dead centering the engine. Dumb question? Does it have an original fiber timing gear? Could be that it jumped.

Hope this Helps,

Hank

Does it have an original fiber timing gear?

I would ask the same question, but I would leave out original. The fiber gears are a bad replacement for the original metal gears.

The problem may well be the timing but, he didn't say that he checked the fuel flow. This may or may not be a plugged fuel line. Just Sayin'

Good Luck

I'm sure it's a metal timing gear but I'll check this after noon, Also the gas flow is great.

If it kicks back it is most likely an ignition timing issue. Something is wrong with the timer or roller, or a bunch of backlash in the advance mechanism and/or an incorrect initial setting.

Popping thru the carburetor would indicate the fuel mixture is too lean, but the popping would not cause the engine to kick back. Are you using the correct terminology to describe the issue? Does the hand crank take off backwards while cranking and does the engine try to run backwards or is there just a popping noise?

Also check the wire flags on the timer

Check out the wires between the timer and the coil box. Sometimes a wire gets grounded and especially if you are running on battery it will put out a continual spark instead of sparking at the proper time. Also check out the timing with the spark lever all the way up the spark should come after top dead center. Check timing of each cylinder, not just number one.
Norm

This afternoon I removed the generator and checked the camshaft timing gear, its iron. Then I had neighbor slowly crank it while I checked the condition of the teeth, everything is fine. I'm wondering if the cam could turned relative to the gear. How is the cam and gear held together? Is it a key , pins or what?

the timing gear is held in by two dowel pins. The nut just holds it from coming off forward. Since you have been driving the car and it's been running good, and you checked the teeth on the gear, I don't think it is a timing gear problem. Since the compression is good it is most likely not a ring or valve problem. The most likely thing I would suspect would be the ignition timing. I think you have a problem with the timer, the coils, the coil box or the wiring. Perhaps the spark plugs. What kind of timer do you have?
Norm

I would start by checking out the timer and the timer wiring. If one of the terminals on the timer or one of the wires is shorted to ground you will have a coil that fires continuously and that will cause the issue you're describing. If you are still using the original brass shield behind the timer that could be shorting the timer out as well.

Stephen

I'm considering removing the radiator so I can get a very good access to the times and go from there, instead of squeezing between the engine and the radiator. The brass shield sounds like something to check too.

I have a New Day timer so I may be off base here but is it possible you put the brush on 180 degrees out of position? It's possible to do that with the New Day but I don't know about the one you're using.

I have a Tiger/Ford timer, It's impossible to have it installed wrong. Thanks for the reply

Adam wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:28 am

If it kicks back it is most likely an ignition timing issue. Something is wrong with the timer or roller, or a bunch of backlash in the advance mechanism and/or an incorrect initial setting.

Popping thru the carburetor would indicate the fuel mixture is too lean, but the popping would not cause the engine to kick back. Are you using the correct terminology to describe the issue? Does the hand crank take off backwards while cranking and does the engine try to run backwards or is there just a popping noise?

If I were to try and used the hand crank I'm sure it would pull out of my hand, I'm to old to end up with a pulled shoulder.

Definitely a timing issue then. Much more likely to be an easily solve-able ignition timing (timer) issue and far less likely to be a timing gear issue.

mine did the same thing new day timer pick not making contact at times in the cap replaced pick up runs fine

Richard, when you say you started it three weeks ago, (but it ran fine before), what did you do to the ignition system just before you started it and it ran a few minutes and then started to kick when you tried to start it again. Chances are you connected something wrong, adjusted something or moved something. Just my .02.

The only thing I did to it was put on a new sediment bowl. That's what got me baffled.

If the only thing you changed is the sediment bowl then you may have bent or altered the float in the bowl. That would change your fuel flow

Try opening the petcock at the bottom of the carburetor and see if gas runs out. Put something underneath and let it run for a while to see if it keeps running freely. If you have a partial blockage, you will find that the engine will start up and run for a short while and then stop. If you wait a few minutes it will start up again and repeat. If you have a continuous flow from the petcock, the problem is not a lack of fuel.
Norm

Well I got the kick back problem solved, crossed wires. But the original problem is still there, it'll put, put (fire) a couple times then the starter will spin freely, and when I push the starter button it'll do it again. The throttle setting doesn't seem to make difference. It did run a couple min eventually, and when it finally started again the throttle didn't seem to make any difference for the first couple seconds. I have really good gas flow out of the sediment bowl and there is always gas hen I drain the carb/vaporizer. But, I'll try and how well the gas flows out of the carb. Thanks for all the great suggestions.

perry kete wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:16 am

If the only thing you changed is the sediment bowl then you may have bent or altered the float in the bowl. That would change your fuel flow

But it ran great. after I first started it without touching the carb.

You say you have a vaporizer carburetor. It could be that the central plate has rusted through. That could explain why it ran fine and then it didn’t. Worth checking out.

Steve Hughes wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:12 pm

You say you have a vaporizer carburetor. It could be that the central plate has rusted through. That could explain why it ran fine and then it didn’t. Worth checking out.

Brand new plate

Coil box?? Spark jumping??

Hooray, Hooray, My car running great. Just back to normal. Neighbor stopped by any is pretty sharp, I asked him listen to me trying start it. While I was in the car trying start it, he held his hand over the air intake and didn't feel any vacuum. He realized that the choke was closed though in the car the choke button was in. So the conclusion is, the choke was being held closed by the wire going thru the radiator. So when I'd choke the car from inside it would close the choke, when I'd push it in the choke the choke on the carb would stayed shut. It was hanging up on the radiator.
So I'd like to thank everybody for all the suggestion. They were greatly appreciated

Typical....it's the simple things that bite you. For such things the "dope slap" was invented....don't ask me how I know