Model T engine Marine Conversion

OilyBill · Post by **OilyBill** » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:42 pm

A couple years back, I was at Chickasha, and picked up a "St. Lawrence River and Engine Co." conversion that used a Model T Ford engine.
Unfortunately, at the time, I could not carry the shaft and propeller in my rental car. They guy I bought it from was supposed to ship me all the info and pictures he had on it when he took it apart, and any other parts he had for it, when he got home.
Well, I never heard from him again, so I lost the propeller and shaft, and never received any of the tech data regarding the installation and assembly of all the parts I had.
That was all my mistake.
Does anyone have ANY information at all about this conversion? (parts book, owner's manual, conversion instructions, etc?)
I understand they did them later using Model A engines, and also later Ford V-8 and Mercury engines as well.
I assume mine is from sometime in the late teens or early 20's, since it is for a Model T.
So far I have only found some pictures of them, which are no much help.
Thanks in advance!
BIll

jeffstag · Post by **jeffstag** » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:19 pm

Contact Scott Ramsey at the Dart Boat Company (just Google that). I'm not sure if he has the information you're looking for, but he's likely to.

Post by **J1MGOLDEN** » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:23 pm

That company was in my hometown, Clayton, New York.

It went out with the depression!

I have more information and photos about the company.

The boat museum there has two or three different make Model T engines in boats.

OilyBill · Post by **OilyBill** » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:37 pm

Thanks!
I went to their website, and it looks like their emphasis is on much later boats, into the 1930's and 1940's. I didn't see any mention of Model T marine conversions, but I sent them a message anyway, and will see if they reply, or have any info.
Thanks for the info. Every little bit helps!
Bill

OilyBill · Post by **OilyBill** » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:56 pm

Dear Jim:
YES, I would be very interested in whatever pictures or other info you might have. I would be quite willing to pay for copies of whatever info or pictures you can provide.
Rather than trying to send pics, etc. over the internet, if you can get them loaded on a thumb drive or disc, I would pay you for that, and then I can blow the pics up as large as I want, through shops I work with down here in Tucson.
I myself am terrible with computers, and can hardly get on even this website, so what I normally do is download stuff, or get someone else to do it, and then take it to them, where in 10 seconds they can have everything printed out, and they can (and have) blown it up to any size required.
What I am hoping to find is an illustrated parts book that tells me where everything goes. I have figured out a LOT of it, but the actual internals to the transmission are a lot more difficult than just a Model T. For one thing, the engine mounts backwards, and the transmission is mounted on the front of the engine. The engine and transmission both are mounted on a very large sub-pan, like a T engine pan, but much bigger and heavier, and this giant pan mounts directly to the engine support beams in the huil of the boat. that. Also, the transmission on this marine conversion is NOT planetary, but has clamping clutches that select forward and reverse (And possibly a 2nd, higher gear in forward drive.) It appears the reverse can also be engaged as the boat approaches a dock, so you can slow down as you slide into the slip area. It has a lot of really good engineering in it, that I can see just by looking at it. The problem is its a pretty complicated transmission assembly, and there are a lot of parts that I can't figure out where they go, or what their function is.
Thanks very much!
Bill

Chris Barker · Post by **Chris Barker** » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:33 am

The usual marine transmission was a very clever adaptation of the car gearbox.
The teeth were ground off the driven (sun) gear, and the low and brake drums were locked together.
When the reverse drum was clamped, the output turned at 0.96 x engine speed in reverse, so the sailor had direct drive for going forward, and almost the same in reverse for going aft.
I take my hat off to whoever thought of that mod.
I believe it was incorporated in the marine motors made by Ford Canada (MX part numbers)

John E. Guitar · Post by **John E. Guitar** » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:39 am

Previous thread:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/70 ... 1508519203

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OilyBill · Post by **OilyBill** » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:22 am

THANK YOU!! to Chris, Jim, and John!!
Looks like I am on my way!
Bill

Post by **Mark Gregush** » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:48 am

This a link to Cimorelli's library and page that shows marine conversion parts sold through Ford of Canada and Australia (1927). The Canadian parts book shows the same parts in it. Maybe not the same but might be of some help.
http://www.cimorelli.com/mtdl/default.htm

OilyBill · Post by **OilyBill** » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:16 am

Thank you, Mark!
The Australian parts book also has 3 pages devoted to Ford Marine Installations.
Very helpful to know!

Luxford · Post by **Luxford** » Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:37 pm

Bill,
Do you have old issues of the Vintage Ford?
There is an article on the St Lawrence Engine Co in Volume 25 Number 2 by Kevin Mowle.

If not send me an email and I will scan it for you.

OilyBill · Post by **OilyBill** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:23 pm

Thanks, Luxford!
One of the members of the local group has a copy he will let me borrow and scan.
But I really appreciate the offer! Very generous of you!
Stuff like this only happens on the Model T site. No where near as much on other car sites!

Post by **Quickm007** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:04 pm

Hi Luxford,

I would be interested either about the article on the St Lawrence Engine Co in Volume 25 Number 2 by Kevin Mowle. I'm leaving in Canada, and I see the St-Lawrence river from my house. I would like to convert a Model T engine in Marine conversion and intall it on a nice wood vintage boat.

Projects keep me young.

Lol

Luxford · Post by **Luxford** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:29 pm

Mario,
You may find it very difficult to track down a St lawrence Co Motor, but as Ford Canada produced a marine motor why not set about using a T motor and converting it so it works in a vintage boat?
Send me your email address and I will send you the details, the actual Ford parts may be unobtainable but it would not be too difficult to source similar parts (or make them).
Such a project will keep you off the street for a few years, maybe give you a few grey hairs as it keeps you young!!!

Luxford · Post by **Luxford** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:43 pm

mario,
here is a photo of the Ford Canada motor, should have added it to the previous comment

Post by **Quickm007** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:40 pm

Thank you Luxford.

I sent you my personal email. Really appreciated.

Mario

Les Schubert · Post by **Les Schubert** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:14 pm

So I have a original factory conversion T marine engine that is probably surplus to my needs!!
It is a “cheap version” that doesn’t have a transmission, but it does have a original oil pump, water pump and water cooled exhaust!!
This one has “crankcase doors” in the side of the block!!

jeffstag · Post by **jeffstag** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:44 pm

Les, so, what are your plans for the 'extra' one?

OilyBill · Post by **OilyBill** » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:23 pm

Mario, I don't know if you saw it or not, but in this thread, it has been mentioned that both "Canada Ford", and "Australia Ford" issued parts books with illustrations and parts lists for Ford Model T Marine Conversions. They were different than the "St Lawrence" version I am looking for, but it would still be useful for you to look at them. ( I am looking for "St Lawrence" info because that is what I have, but there were a LOT of other conversions made and sold, and as I mentioned above, a lot of them were supported by Ford Motor Co. in their spares coverage.)
It would be nice to have a forum section devoted to Ford Model T Marine Conversions in general. (I am surprised by the number of views on here. I thought I would be lucky if there were 25 views, and 3 answers, and there are now over 900 hits on the subject, and just since June 28th. Holy Googly Mooglies!!)
Maybe they could all it "Ahoy, Matey" or some other nautical subject header, and it would cover ALL conversions, not just the "St. Lawrence" one.

Luxford · Post by **Luxford** » Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:45 am

Hi Les,
Any chance of getting some photo's of your motor.
Would like to add them to my file on Ford Canada Marine motors.

Les Schubert · Post by **Les Schubert** » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:43 am

Mine is a “Roberts” brand

Post by **John Page** » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:13 pm

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80 ... 1242356896

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Post by **John Page** » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:22 pm

You will have to scroll down on the link to the Forum Thread I just posted. There is also some thread drift. Hope there is something there of interest.

Best regards, John

Dropacent · Post by **Dropacent** » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:59 pm

I’m missing the cover page but I believe this is the Canadian Ford catalog. Someone mentioned Roberts, that was in Sandusky Ohio. Right at the lakeshore. They made a lot of marine motors, mostly stand alone, but also a model T conversion.

Luxford · Post by **Luxford** » Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:02 am

William,
I went looking in my files and found this print out of a St Lawrence marine motor for sale on ebay. in 1990
So there is another one around (or is it possible this is yours?)
If not there may be some information you can glean from the photo's, unfortunately I was only able to print off the details on an old Apple printer at the time.
Long time ago but maybe one can track down the seller still and find out where it went to ????

Luxford · Post by **Luxford** » Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:05 am

For some reason the scans did not load will try again, If not William email me and I will pass them on.

Luxford · Post by **Luxford** » Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:27 am

last try, files may have been too large,fingers crossed

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