MTFCA Forum

Hello,

I know it is a long shot but I will try anyway. I live in The Netherlands in Europe and I bought a Model T project (will be speedster), engine number 7034568. So apparently January 1923.

It has no papers whatsoever, but it must have come from the USA at some point. Or may be even the engine only made it overseas. For registration in The Netherlands I need to have a title and import documents. I can arrange the import documents with the title, the title does not have to be in my name, just anyone in the USA and any State, must be titled with Make/Model/Year. I tried several companies that can help but so far, I got no reaction or I need to purchase an expensive package that I don't trust. I some cases a Bill of sale can help too.

Is there anyone out there that can help? Or knows 'how to'?

I am also picking pick-up a 1927 Roadster on Saturday, with all correct documents. Looking forward to!

Thanks!
Mel

Well I don't wanna sound too negative or skeptical, but trying to acquire a "fake title" from "anyone" in the states is probably leaning on the slightly illegal side over this side of the pond, so I doubt you'll get much luck there. I would approach it on your end with a bill of sale at the very least. From whom/where did you buy it? That person should provide you with the B.O.S. so you can then commence your title acquisition there in the Netherlands. Maybe Anthony (Toon) Boer who frequents this site and lives in the Netherlands can be of some help. Good luck.

Thanks for your answer, I totally agree. I am definitely not looking for an illegal solution or fake title. Our Dutch DMV will smell that from a mile away. I have been Googling for requesting a new title or a reissue but I am looking for a trustworthy option, so far shady companies offered me to buy a package for $895.

It is not such a big deal, there are other ways like the bill of sale but a title with correct numbers will help.

Have you tried getting a bonded title? There are bonded title companies in the states that deal with old cars that will know what you need In most situations. It’s fairly common to locate antique cars that don’t have any kind of paperwork and sometimes using a bonded title company is the only sure way to get a legal title. It would help if you could get a certified document from the seller. If you can do that a bonded title would be the next thing to do. If they won’t do it maybe they could point you in the right direction to get it done.
I don’t know for sure but maybe the bonded title company could act as your agent to get the paperwork done.
Good luck

Here in California if you have a bill of sale for the respective parts, you can take them in to a Highway Patrol inspector who will go over the list and the car, and once he or she verifies that the parts you have are legitimate, they will issue a new identification number for the vehicle, that then will be used for a new registration. It was how custom motorcycle builders were able to get legally registered vehicles - they wanted to make sure the parts weren't stolen.

IF the parts were found on your property, and then you decided to use them, it gets trickier as they like to know how those found parts ended up on your land. It's still not insurmountable, but it may take a sworn affadavit that the parts were on your property when you bought it or somesuch.

Mel, I can't really help you much. Requirements change through the years. I do remember a friend who imported a pre-war Austin from England to NL in the 1970s. Unlike the US, where a vehicle has to meet all legal requirements in effect during the year of manufacture, NL required a car to meet all the legal requirements in the year of importation. Fortunately, he was able to do a lot of things that he could then undo once the car was on the road, e.g. switch back to the correct headlights for the car instead of the modern sealed beams, etc. I gather that your project is more complicated than that, since it isn't even a complete car. Three Model T people who post on the forum who might have suggestions for you are Toon Boer, Leo van Stirum and Bert van Amstel. (I assume their names will suggest to you why they may be able to help. Het zijn dus geen Chinezen.)

Good luck!

There are some "no-title" states that will issue a title to residents based on a bill-of-sale and other forms of ownership.
Here is some insight on how it can be done ...
https://www.hagerty.com/media/buying-an ... ont-deter/
https://dmv.vermont.gov/tax-title/vehic ... empt-title
https://itstillruns.com/register-car-title-6087974.html

Thanks all for your great help! I’ll post some pics of the 27 roadster I am picking up tomorrow.

Hello Melchior, welcome to the affliction as they say.
That might prove to be a tough one to solve, the RDW is very strict these days, I ran into some troubles myself a couple years back with a T project with sketchy paperwork.
Also they require you to show the project as soon as possible after the purchase to check if it is legit, after that you can start restoring, if you start restoring first and show the result after finishing they might get you in trouble because they can not ascertain that all parts belong to one original car.
Since a some years the RDW go by a "two thirds-one third rule" meaning to get a registration on a restored car at least two thirds have to belong to the original vehicle as purchased, i.e. a car is supposed to consist of three parts, chassis, driveline and bodywork, you may only replace one of them, you have to restore the other two.
To make sure you do that they want to see and document the items as purchased as soon as possible,
You do not neccesarily need a title on an old project car like a T, you DO need a bill of sale with a verifyable seller, because the main goal of the RDW at this point is to ascertain the vehicle is legit and not stolen.
All this legislation was brought on since they discovered a lot of very expensive cars that were "imported" were in fact built up from a mix-n-match of stolen parts, think Ferraris, Maseratis, Porches, Mercedes , Range Rovers etc.
Good luck on your 'quest' and the build !

Kaiser wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:08 pm

...All this legislation was brought on since they discovered a lot of very expensive cars that were "imported" were in fact built up from a mix-n-match of stolen parts, think Ferraris, Maseratis, Porsches, Mercedes , Range Rovers etc.

In other words, yet another case where laws preventing crooks from doing something illegal end up causing problems for honest car people trying to do something perfectly legal. Why would anyone want those Italian, German and British cars instead of a T anyway?

Are historic vehicles from other countries imported into NL today still required to meet all the vehicle standards for vehicles built in 2020 instead of year of manufacture?

Dick , no the cars need the vehicles standards WHEN they where bild !!

Greetings Toon

It would be really funny to see a T with airbags and ABS!

Brendan ; I have a Model T with Air Bag .

Toon

ABoer wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:01 pm

Dick , no the cars need the vehicles standards WHEN they were built !!

Toon, that's an improvement. A friend of mine in the Dutch Austin club imported a 1932 Austin Heavy 12 into NL from the UK in the 1970s, and (as I recall) had to replace the original headlamps with modern sealed beam lamps, add turn signals and seat belts, and do some other things so that the car met the standards of (approximately) 1975. Once he had the Dutch registration, of course, the headlamps and other changes like that went back to original. Probably still has the turn signals, at least.

ABS = Almost Braking System. Unless you have an auxiliary transmission with no aftermarket brakes, then it's Absent Braking System.